>>> Heh. And you're the first person I've met who can pronounce Bach's 
>>> name properly. ;-)
>>
>> Oh! no he is not. :P
> Ach, he was Scottish after all ;)

Heh. You should have seen it. "Bach? Bach? Who is Bach? Oh, you mean 
BAAHHHHCHPT!" *wipe*




Hmm, yeah, I guess you had to be there...

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scott wrote:
> I assume they just did a google image search for "office" and took the 
> first one with a chair in view.

Right. As opposed to picking up your camera and turning around and pushing 
the shutter button?  I mean, how lazy do you have to be to steal a picture 
of an office when you're sitting in an office?

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

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Invisible wrote:
> You could have the camera write a digital signature and make it really 
> awkward to get at the encryption key [which must, necessarily, be 
> present inside the camera somewhere]. But when, if you have an image in 
> RAW format, I would imagine it's fairly easy to fake anyway.

And then what? Everybody at Canon can forge image signatures? Better (at 
least legally speaking) to have the photographer say "Yes, I took that." 
Then it becomes just another detail, rather than an actual piece of 
evidence. I.e., it becomes a quick way of saying "this is what the 
photgrapher saw" instead of having him sit and describe it.

It's like your signature on a contract. Very rarely does someone try to 
claim that their signature isn't really what's on the contract. That's why 
the credit card companies don't care if you sign your name with a picture of 
  mickey mouse or something. The actual signature doesn't matter, only that 
you wrote on the line that says "by writing on this line you agree to pay."

> Most people don't just happen to have a Nikon DSLR in their pocket when 
> they witness a robbery. They shoot people with camera phones and stuff.

Well, it's also police photographing evidence. It's not like you can leave 
the bullet casings on the floor until it's time for the trial.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

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Invisible wrote:
> 
> Really? Because all I seem to hear is "learn how to use Google", "that's
> not how you spell that", "Haskell is for math nerds", "shouldn't you be
> working?"...

You seem to read just different lines than me.

-Aero

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>> You could have the camera write a digital signature and make it really 
>> awkward to get at the encryption key [which must, necessarily, be 
>> present inside the camera somewhere]. But when, if you have an image 
>> in RAW format, I would imagine it's fairly easy to fake anyway.
> 
> And then what? Everybody at Canon can forge image signatures?

Yeah, but that's have no motive.

A much bigger problem is that it only takes one single person to 
successfully extract the key from a single camera and put that on the 
Internet, and all signatures become worthless.

Alternatively, perhaps if every camera had a unique key... (Then you'd 
be able to prove which camera took the shot too.)

> It's like your signature on a contract. Very rarely does someone try to 
> claim that their signature isn't really what's on the contract. That's 
> why the credit card companies don't care if you sign your name with a 
> picture of  mickey mouse or something. The actual signature doesn't 
> matter, only that you wrote on the line that says "by writing on this 
> line you agree to pay."

Heh. I heard some guy got given a cheque and the customer forgot to 
actually sign it. The bank handed over the money anyway. (WTF?)

>> Most people don't just happen to have a Nikon DSLR in their pocket 
>> when they witness a robbery. They shoot people with camera phones and 
>> stuff.
> 
> Well, it's also police photographing evidence. It's not like you can 
> leave the bullet casings on the floor until it's time for the trial.

Well, that's another matter entirely, yes. I think you have to take 
police evidence as valid, because if the police themselves are trying to 
frame somebody, there's not a lot you can do in a courtroom...

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Invisible wrote:
> Alternatively, perhaps if every camera had a unique key... (Then you'd 
> be able to prove which camera took the shot too.)

And then you'd have to explain to a jury how that works.

> Heh. I heard some guy got given a cheque and the customer forgot to 
> actually sign it. The bank handed over the money anyway. (WTF?)

Probably because they trusted the guy cashing the check, or he'd been a 
long-term customer, so if it came back, they knew they could get the money 
back.

> Well, that's another matter entirely, yes. I think you have to take 
> police evidence as valid, because if the police themselves are trying to 
> frame somebody, there's not a lot you can do in a courtroom...

O J Simpson.

There's all kinds of things you can do about it, yeah. Certainly you have 
less recourse than someone who *isn't* the police, simply because people 
trust the police more.  But we've been getting all kinds of situations hwere 
where people with survalence videos or cell phone cameras keep the cops from 
getting away with crap and framing people.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

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>> Alternatively, perhaps if every camera had a unique key... (Then you'd 
>> be able to prove which camera took the shot too.)
> 
> And then you'd have to explain to a jury how that works.

Which, fortunately, isn't that complicated.

>> Well, that's another matter entirely, yes. I think you have to take 
>> police evidence as valid, because if the police themselves are trying 
>> to frame somebody, there's not a lot you can do in a courtroom...
> 
> O J Simpson.
> 
> There's all kinds of things you can do about it, yeah. Certainly you 
> have less recourse than someone who *isn't* the police, simply because 
> people trust the police more.  But we've been getting all kinds of 
> situations hwere where people with survalence videos or cell phone 
> cameras keep the cops from getting away with crap and framing people.

Trouble is, since the police control all evidence and control everything 
that does or does not enter the courtroom, it seems an obvious 
consequence that if the police try to frame you, it is provably 
impossible to do anything about it.

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Invisible wrote:
> Which, fortunately, isn't that complicated.

You call yourself stupid, and you think proving that digital signatures work 
isn't that complicated?

> Trouble is, since the police control all evidence and control everything 
> that does or does not enter the courtroom, 

Not quite.

> it seems an obvious 
> consequence that if the police try to frame you, it is provably 
> impossible to do anything about it.

O J Simpson.  One counter-example disproves "provably impossible".

And no, the police (in the US at least) don't control all the evidence or 
what shows up in the courtroom. If the cop says (real example) that you 
attacked him in the elevator, and the video tape from the elevator camera 
shows the cop punching you first, chances are you'll get off.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

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> Right. As opposed to picking up your camera and turning around and pushing 
> the shutter button?  I mean, how lazy do you have to be to steal a picture 
> of an office when you're sitting in an office?

I think the fact is the people involved do not realise it is stealing. 
Anyway, grabbing one off Google is an order of magnitude faster than doing 
it yourself, plus you get to choose the best one rather than being stuck 
with your office and your poor photography skills :-)

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scott wrote:
> I think the fact is the people involved do not realise it is stealing. 

Of course. I was being sarcastic. :-)

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   I ordered stamps from Zazzle that read "Place Stamp Here".

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