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From: Chris B
Subject: New (Experimental) Index Page
Date: 7 Apr 2008 08:58:34
Message: <47fa1a7a$1@news.povray.org>
I've added a page at http://lib.povray.org/searchcollection/index2.php to 
try and address some of the issues raised in this newsgroup earlier this 
year.

It doesn't use any JavaScript, so should work with a wider range of 
platforms and browser settings. You should see a full hierarchical list of 
categories down the left and thumbnails/action icons on the right. I don't 
want to explain here how anything works as I'd appreciate feedback on how 
intuitive it is when you first use it and any suggestions on how to make it 
better/clearer for first-time users.

I'm not aware of any bugs, so if something doesn't work right for you it's 
worth mentioning it, (remember to say what Browser and Operating System you 
get the problem on).

Regards,
Chris B.


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From: Mike the Elder
Subject: Re: New (Experimental) Index Page
Date: 7 Apr 2008 09:20:01
Message: <web.47fa1f1e133a8f915a8888d90@news.povray.org>
"Chris B" <nom### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> I've added a page at http://lib.povray.org/searchcollection/index2.php to
.....
> Regards,
> Chris B.

Thank you! That's MUCH better.

One small suggestion occurred to me, so I'll share it. How would you feel about
adding an "Unselect All" button?

Best Regards,
Mike C.


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From: Warp
Subject: Re: New (Experimental) Index Page
Date: 7 Apr 2008 09:38:51
Message: <47fa23eb@news.povray.org>
Chris B <nom### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> http://lib.povray.org/searchcollection/index2.php

  On the very first sight it looks good, but on closer examination
I find some problems.

  Firstly, the thumbnail images are scaled down. Most browsers do an
absolutely awful job at scaling down images, so they look horribly
pixelated where the browser drops pixels.

  Secondly, I liked more the idea that you can see the short
descriptions of the objects, with clear links to additional info, etc.
The minuscule images on the right side of the thumbnail are not
intuitive and don't really stand out as "you can see more information
here". Also, I don't like it that you have to click on such a small
link to get a page which just has the short description of the object.

  I prefer the list with the textual descriptions, as in the original
index page. I think that layout is ok. It just doesn't need the javascript.

  Perhaps there could be some link to a page which shows only the
thumbnail images (but without scaling them!) as that index2, or something.

  Thirdly, clicking eg. on "Games" and then "Display Selected Categories"
gives nothing. Should give all entries below the "Games" category.

-- 
                                                          - Warp


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From: Chris B
Subject: Re: New (Experimental) Index Page
Date: 8 Apr 2008 19:26:24
Message: <47fbff20@news.povray.org>
"Mike the Elder" <nomail@nomail> wrote in message 
news:web.47fa1f1e133a8f915a8888d90@news.povray.org...
> "Chris B" <nom### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
>> I've added a page at http://lib.povray.org/searchcollection/index2.php to
> .....
>> Regards,
>> Chris B.
> One small suggestion occurred to me, so I'll share it. How would you feel 
> about
> adding an "Unselect All" button?
>

Hi Mike,

I've added a "Clear Selected Categories" link below the button. I'll have a 
think about how I might make it a button (without cheating and resorting to 
JavaScript).

Regards,
Chris B.


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From: Chris B
Subject: Re: New (Experimental) Index Page
Date: 8 Apr 2008 19:30:28
Message: <47fc0014$1@news.povray.org>
"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message 
news:47fa23eb@news.povray.org...
> Chris B <nom### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
>> http://lib.povray.org/searchcollection/index2.php
>
>  On the very first sight it looks good, but on closer examination
> I find some problems.
>
>  Firstly, the thumbnail images are scaled down. Most browsers do an
> absolutely awful job at scaling down images, so they look horribly
> pixelated where the browser drops pixels.

Ah. They looked ok on my screen in both IE and Firefox. I've added an option 
to change the scale and I've changed the page to use the URL to pass 
parameters, so if you change the scale and bookmark the resulting page it 
should come up in whatever scale you've bookmarked.

>  Secondly, I liked more the idea that you can see the short
> descriptions of the objects, with clear links to additional info, etc.

I've added an option to display both a short textual description and the 
graphics. See below about keeping the existing page too.

> The minuscule images on the right side of the thumbnail are not
> intuitive and don't really stand out as "you can see more information
> here".

I'm running on 1024x768 and they don't look 'very' small on my screen. Are 
you running on a higher resolution? In any case I've set it to scale the 
icons along with the thumbnails, so if you select 100% they'll show up as 
33% larger than they start off as. If they still look too small I can 
increase them by another 33% without much difficulty. I was trying to keep 
them as small as I could to cram as many as possible into the available 
screen width.

Are the meanings of the icons clear (now that you can see them)?
Is it apparent that hovering over the icons brings up the Alt text to 
explain their function, or should I add some sort of hint at the top of the 
screen?

> Also, I don't like it that you have to click on such a small
> link to get a page which just has the short description of the object.
>
>  I prefer the list with the textual descriptions, as in the original
> index page. I think that layout is ok. It just doesn't need the 
> javascript.
>
>  Perhaps there could be some link to a page which shows only the
> thumbnail images (but without scaling them!) as that index2, or something.

Yes, my plan is that this will be an extra page, so won't replace the 
existing search screen.

>  Thirdly, clicking eg. on "Games" and then "Display Selected Categories"
> gives nothing. Should give all entries below the "Games" category.

I had thought about that, but if it automatically incorporates lower 
categories whether they're ticked or not then it doesn't provide the user 
with any way to view the contents of just the higher level category. 
Whereas, doing it this way makes both possible.

Regards,
Chris B.


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From: Warp
Subject: Re: New (Experimental) Index Page
Date: 8 Apr 2008 20:04:04
Message: <47fc07f4@news.povray.org>
Chris B <nom### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> I've added an option to display both a short textual description and the 
> graphics.

  Small problem, though:
http://warp.povusers.org/snaps/objectcollection.png

> > The minuscule images on the right side of the thumbnail are not
> > intuitive and don't really stand out as "you can see more information
> > here".

> I'm running on 1024x768 and they don't look 'very' small on my screen. Are 
> you running on a higher resolution?

  1600x1200.

> Are the meanings of the icons clear (now that you can see them)?

  I suppose they are ok, although in the longer version there could be
textual links as well, IMO.

> Is it apparent that hovering over the icons brings up the Alt text to 
> explain their function, or should I add some sort of hint at the top of the 
> screen?

  I have never been so good at UI and web design. I can report problems,
but I don't necessarily have good ideas for solutions. :)

-- 
                                                          - Warp


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From: Nicolas Alvarez
Subject: Re: New (Experimental) Index Page
Date: 8 Apr 2008 21:22:22
Message: <47fc1a4e@news.povray.org>
Warp escribió:
>   I have never been so good at UI and web design. I can report problems,
> but I don't necessarily have good ideas for solutions. :)

Don't worry, that's pretty normal :)


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From: Charles C
Subject: Re: New (Experimental) Index Page
Date: 9 Apr 2008 02:14:05
Message: <47fc5ead@news.povray.org>
Chris,

I'm liking the ability to see more entries all at once!  Seeing all the 
categories on the left is great too.  Selecting 50% scaling does a nice 
job on Firefox in Windows. (Note, I'm also at 1024x768).  I do find the 
small icons intuitive - i for information, a magnifier for a larger view 
and a  downward pointing arrow for download all seem pretty standard to 
me.

Right now clicking on the thumbnail seems to do the same thing as one of 
the icons - specifically the download button.  Minor changes I think 
might be nice would be to change the function of the "i" icon to bring 
up a separate smaller pop-up window (did I say that?) with the full size 
thumbnail and description and another download link.  That and maybe 
change the function of clicking on the original thumbnail to bringing up 
something like the full size image in the same window captioned with the 
description and another download link.  This way everything you click 
gets a slightly different result to fit more tastes.

I do get the over-written text if I list with text, similar to Warp's 
screenshot.

Charles


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From: Chris B
Subject: Re: New (Experimental) Index Page
Date: 9 Apr 2008 08:12:29
Message: <47fcb2ad$1@news.povray.org>
"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message 
news:47fc07f4@news.povray.org...
> Chris B <nom### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
>> I've added an option to display both a short textual description and the
>> graphics.
>
>  Small problem, though:
> http://warp.povusers.org/snaps/objectcollection.png

Ah whoops. I hadn't scrolled down enough in the Firefox version to notice 
that and IE handled it ok. I've fixed that so it should be ok in both now.

>> I'm running on 1024x768. Are
>> you running on a higher resolution?
>
>  1600x1200.

ok now that resolution is beyond what I can test :-)
Is the text showing up ok at that resolution? I have used a small font.

>
>> Are the meanings of the icons clear (now that you can see them)?
>
>  I suppose they are ok, although in the longer version there could be
> textual links as well, IMO.
>

ok. I've added textual links to the 'Images and Text' mode.

Regards,
Chris B.


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From: Chris B
Subject: Re: New (Experimental) Index Page
Date: 9 Apr 2008 08:12:34
Message: <47fcb2b2$1@news.povray.org>
"Charles C" <"nospam a nospam.com"> wrote in message 
news:47fc5ead@news.povray.org...
> Chris,
>
> I'm liking the ability to see more entries all at once!  Seeing all the 
> categories on the left is great too.  Selecting 50% scaling does a nice 
> job on Firefox in Windows. (Note, I'm also at 1024x768).  I do find the 
> small icons intuitive - i for information, a magnifier for a larger view 
> and a  downward pointing arrow for download all seem pretty standard to 
> me.
>

ok. Thanks for the feedback.

> Right now clicking on the thumbnail seems to do the same thing as one of 
> the icons - specifically the download button.  Minor changes I think might 
> be nice would be to change the function of the "i" icon to bring up a 
> separate smaller pop-up window (did I say that?) with the full size 
> thumbnail and description and another download link.

At the moment it brings up that information by specifying a 'target', so IE 
puts it into a separate window and Firefox opens it in a new tab (can anyone 
tell me what Opera etc. does with it). Do you think it would be better to 
show a sort of overlay on the same page? This may be possible with some CSS 
jiggery pockery rather than resorting to JavaScript (I'm trying to make this 
view JavaScript-free).

> That and maybe change the function of clicking on the original thumbnail 
> to bringing up something like the full size image in the same window 
> captioned with the description and another download link.  This way 
> everything you click gets a slightly different result to fit more tastes.

I may be able to use CSS to bring up an overlay when the mouse pointer is 
hovered over a thumbnail, but without JavaScript it might be difficult to 
control the position so that it stays in the visible part of the screen. I'm 
also not sure how well other (e.g older) browsers and other platforms handle 
that sort of thing. I'll dig into the manuals.

> I do get the over-written text if I list with text, similar to Warp's 
> screenshot.

ok. I think I've nailed that one now if you'd like to double check that for 
me.

Regards,
Chris B.


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