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>content as Jason's bug report. It doesn't help my peace of mind that I have
>reason to believe that Jason's attempts to explain himself were removed from
>the newsgroup. I am not defending him, but I've had enough of people attacking
I'd like to know on what basis you place that fairly nasty accusation. We do
not involve ourselves in that sort of selective editing. On the very rare
occasion that something is removed from this server, the entire thread goes,
lock stock and barrel, with no exception. As far as we are aware Jason has
never posted any message on this server, period.
Please now explain where this baseless implication comes from.
-- Newsadmin
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povray.org admin team wrote:
> Over the years, Americans have modified various parts of the English
> language to create these variants (another good example is the US
> 'color' vs the English 'colour'). That's all well and good - we don't
> dispute the right of Americans to change the language they speak.
I do believe the English have also changed the language a bit over the
centuries. The English of Chaucer was not the English of the Beowolf
poet, nor is Shakespere's English that of Chaucer. The Brittish English
of today is not exactly that which was spoken by Shakespere, either.
Language altering is not strictly an American habit, but in the passing
of history nearly every language has developed it's own dialects, and
every written language has made extensive changes to its orthography.
Let's be fair....
--
+---------------------+-------------------------------------+
:Benjamin Keil : If she's a liar, I'm her lover :
:bke### [at] indiana edu : If she's a priestess, I'm her cover :
:Now at Indiana Univ. : If she's a lady, I'm her man :
:at Bloomington : If she's a man, I'll do what I can! :
+---------------------+-------------------------------------+
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Benjamin Keil <bke### [at] indianaedu> wrote:
>povray.org admin team wrote:
>
>> Over the years, Americans have modified various parts of the English
>> language to create these variants (another good example is the US
>> 'color' vs the English 'colour'). That's all well and good - we don't
>> dispute the right of Americans to change the language they speak.
>
>I do believe the English have also changed the language a bit over the
>centuries. The English of Chaucer was not the English of the Beowolf
>poet, nor is Shakespere's English that of Chaucer. The Brittish English
>of today is not exactly that which was spoken by Shakespere, either.
>Language altering is not strictly an American habit, but in the passing
>of history nearly every language has developed it's own dialects, and
>every written language has made extensive changes to its orthography.
>Let's be fair....
I was fair ... hence our statement that it's their right to change it.
Nevertheless, we don't sit in English class critisizing Shakespere for his
spelling :). We know that the language has changed. We know that, at the time
Shakespere wrote, the spelling he used was correct in the context of his time.
We (the collective 'we' here being, I suppose, any non-American English
speaker, though I can hardly profess to speak for all of them) don't mind
Americans changing the language in the least, as long as they don't act as if
they invented it, and give us a tongue-lashing when we don't spell it as they
choose. Which, after all, is the cause of this entire, long, thread.
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Hans-Detlev Fink wrote:
> I went through all
> dictionaries my wife (she's an English teacher) owns
> (about 5). They are all British and say unisono "organize,
> optimize, ...". (E.g. "Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary
> of Current English").
That is correct.
> So shouldn't it be the other way around: Z=British, S=US?
Nope.
> Forgive me being nit-picking, it's just out of curiosity.
Sorry for being a bit late replying, but Z=verbs (or everything in the
US), S=anything else in European English.In England, you say
organisation, in the US you say organization. Well, such was the way I
was taught.
I looked up my very British dictionary and they quote
both spellings without preference S or Z. Also in the text they claim
that since the dictionary originates in Britain it tends to show more
of the British English rather than other variations, yet their main
introductory text uses [Organization] rather than [Organisation], the
dictionary I'm referring to is the Collins Cobuilt which I would agree
is not the best one, but is British nethertheless.
Just my two pence worth,
Al.
--
ANTI SPAM / ANTI ARROSAGE COMMERCIAL :
Pour me répondre, veuillez enlever le Z de mon adresse.
To answer me, please take out the Z from my address.
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Robert H. Morrison wrote:
> > We also would like to officially nominate Jason Barlow for the 'Rudest Support
> > Email of 1998' award.
> He's GOT MY VOTE!!
> Jason your chances of winning look REALLY, REALLY GOOD!!
He's good indeed.
> What COLOUR is his award certificate?
According to COLLINS COBUILD again, this is definitely the British spelling and
COLOR is definitely the American one.
> Does he MAXIMISE his EGO by MINIMISING his KNOWLEDGE?
But these few examples are usualy with a Z in British English as well as American
English.
> Does he even OWN an English language dictionary?
Because one person is rude does that excuse YOU to be rude towards that person or
any other ?
Al.
--
ANTI SPAM / ANTI ARROSAGE COMMERCIAL :
Pour me répondre, veuillez enlever le Z de mon adresse.
To answer me, please take out the Z from my address.
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> Please now explain where this baseless implication comes from.
One thing, before I quote an e-mail I received from Jason: Upon reflection, it
was probably a mistake to include that line in my post. No matter what the
response might be, it can only continue this, which isn't what I want. Also, I
said that I had reason to believe this, not that I am convinced of it. For him
to accuse you of removing his posts would not be proof enough for me, but
would instead be a further descent into this rather nasty subject. Here are
two quotes from an e-mail he sent following my first post in this thread:
>Any
>attempt I have made to post publicly to the newsgroup in response to
>this matter has been thwarted as well it would seem - my posts are being
>deleted.
...
>I am shamed, hurt, embarrassed, and humiliated because of this, and
>I am extremely remorseful for the people my words have offended
>because of the public posting of what was meant to be a private
>exchange of e-mail (albeit a sorry work it was). I hold no value that
>believes "The American Way" prevails over any other way of thinking,
>speaking, and even spelling. I desperately wish I could communicate
>that to the people who have flamed me, spammed me, macro-mail
>bombed me, etc, but I fear I would be writing personal apologies for
>the next 6 months.
>
>As such, I don't have any intention of making any further public replies
>to this matter, since any attempt I've made has been censored.
I will e-mail him to see whether or not he would object to letting me post his
entire e-mail, since it's not exactly possible for anyone else to see it,
right now... but this would be my reason. However, I shouldn't have mentioned
that in my post, and for that I apologize. I have no first hand evidence that
you have done so, merely Jason's word. Since he has e-mailed me, without me
e-mailing him, I can only suppose that he has been following the thread, and
if he has, than it's a reasonable to suppose that he has tried to post an
explanation, but that too is far from solid evidence. I would like to explain
that I don't mean to accuse you (or any of the team) for acting so unfairly.
But that I have to consider it in the first place is unfortunate. Again,
please accept my apologies for that sentence, I should not have written it.
That was a mistake on my part.
-Mark R.
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I think the original e-mail was posted here as a catharsis. I imagine they get a
lot of mail that is rather silly and it can be mentally draining to have to sort
through it for legitimate problem reports. The tone of the e-mail also seemed to
be taking a shot at the work of the POV-Ray Team, so a little bitterness over it
is understandable.
If it's true that people went after Jason with mail bombing and such I think
that's reprehensible. As far as his problems posting to this newsgroup, it sounds
like a software problem. Otherwise he would have seen it right after sending it.
I agree that this thread has gotten out of hand, but I think it's also succeeded
in making the point that you should think about what you are going to say before
writing a 'bug' report.
-Mike
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>We (the collective 'we' here being, I suppose, any non-American English
>speaker, though I can hardly profess to speak for all of them) don't mind
>Americans changing the language in the least
If we exclude the English and the Americans then we are left with the Kiwis,
Aussies, Irish, Welsh and the Scots. Any one who has heard those
interpretations of English should have little to say about American English.
American arrogance is another matter entirely...
Tom
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>>attempt I have made to post publicly to the newsgroup in response to
>>this matter has been thwarted as well it would seem - my posts are being
>>deleted.
This is not so. He has never (to our knowledge) posted to this server. His
accusation that his posts are being deleted are false (unless someone has
forged cancel messages for his posts, which would then be visible in the
'control' group of this server. We don't see any there.)
We ourselves have never deleted any message sent by him.
A scan through DejaNews DID indicate that he has posted a single message (that
we can find anyhow) to povray.general via news.xmission.com.
Before proceeding, let us say that the implication (that we read from the above
message) that we had sent an email to him containing expletives is false. Nor
did we indulge in 'American bashing', though we left him in no question as to
the fact that we don't like having our intelligence questioned as he so clearly
did in his report to us. But that's beside the point.
His main problem is that he apparantly posted to news.xmission.com. Why he did
that we have no idea. news.xmission.com is not news.povray.org (no surprises
about that we would expect). There is no way that any posting from xmission.com
is going to get onto this server since news.povray.org is not connected to
USENET (unless someone posts it manually). We do NOT take in articles from the
world (see http://www.povray.org/groups.html for an explanation as to why).
And we had our way, articles would not get out, either. Until about 24 hours
ago we were unaware that several sites had been feeding articles from this
server out into the world (this had been done without our permission).
So Jason's posting - far from being deleted, as he claims (wrong yet again,
Jason) - simply never even made it to this server, and thus to the bulk of the
POV-Ray user community. Had he wanted to reply to this thread he would have
been best off doing exactly what everyone else does, and that is to post
directly to news.povray.org (the existance of which is documented in the povwin
help file).
If he wants we will delete the entire thread (and any related threads), lock
stock and barrel, from this server, such that there is no record of it ever
existing (at least not here). That way he will receive no further emails from
users who don't think much of the tone of his bug report.
If he doesn't want that then fine, it'll say there. It doesn't bother us either
way. And if he chooses to followup here in the newsgroup then that's fine, too.
[IMO however, it wouldn't do much good since we would be obliged to reply to
it, and then there'd be replies to replies and followups and so forth, and the
thing would drag out all over again. As it is the thread has more or less died
out. But if he wants to he's welcome, as he always has been.]
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povray.org admin team wrote:
> world (see http://www.povray.org/groups.html for an explanation as to why).
Sorry for being off topic but I noticed on the above list
you don't have a lising for povray.binaries.programming.
An oversight or omission ?
Ken Tyler
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"Tom Galvin" <tga### [at] dataforgecom> wrote:
>>We (the collective 'we' here being, I suppose, any non-American English
>>speaker, though I can hardly profess to speak for all of them) don't mind
>>Americans changing the language in the least
>
>If we exclude the English and the Americans then we are left with the Kiwis,
>Aussies, Irish, Welsh and the Scots. Any one who has heard those
>interpretations of English should have little to say about American English.
Precisely. So we don't complain about their english, just about the fact that a
few of them rudely complain about _ours_.
This is the whole point, one that some readers have failed to 'get'. We're all
welcome to do whatever we like to our own regional variations of English. But
none of us should go about implying that someone else lacks intelligence (as
Jason did to us) because that other person uses their own, regional, variation
of English spelling (regardless of whether or not it is 'true' English as the
English spell it).
No-one here has said the Americans have it wrong, and the Aussies/Irish/Kiwis
etc. have it right. Just that we're not wrong, either (yes, it's possible for
both of us to be right).
Had I been an Australian user of a software package and had written to an
American firm rudely questioning their intelligence because they spelt minimise
with a 'z' then I would have been just as guilty. But I won't, because I know
that Americans have their own spelling and I respect that fact.
I've never yet personally come across a software package that does menu and
documentation spelling substitutions based on the country settings - not even
Microsoft Word [a likely candidate] does that. [FWIW Word does correctly mark
words such as 'minimize' as incorrectly spelt, and suggests the 's' variation,
when set to British English].
Therefore, software (for the time being) is likely to continue to come out with
its own regional spelling in documentation and menus, and there's little that
can be done about it except just accept it.
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Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
>povray.org admin team wrote:
>
>> world (see http://www.povray.org/groups.html for an explanation as to why).
>
>Sorry for being off topic but I noticed on the above list
>you don't have a lising for povray.binaries.programming.
>An oversight or omission ?
Good catch. I'll add it in next time I've editing that page.
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>
> > Does he even OWN an English language dictionary?
>
> Because one person is rude does that excuse YOU to be rude towards that person or
> any other ?
>
Ahhh... but that's the whole catch isn't it?
Someone who reports misspellings without even verifying that he is correct
by consulting a dictionary one can only ASSUME that he doesn't own one,
othewise one would be forced to make rude assumptions as to his intelligence
which of course we wouldn't want to do, OR???
--
Best regards,
_ __ _ , _ _ _
' ) ) / _/_ ' ) / ' ) ) )
/--' ____/___/> __ / /--/ / / / __,_ __ o _ ______
/ \_(_) /_) (__/ (_<__ / ( o / ' (_(_) (_/ (_<_/_)_(_) / <_
Robert H. Morrison Tel: +49 721 9628 167
Software Development, Basis Team FAX: +49 721 9628 149
Hitex-Systementwicklung GmbH Email: RMorrison@hitex.de
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povray.org admin team wrote in message
<361426a9.436588571@news.povray.org>...
>"Tom Galvin" <tga### [at] dataforgecom> wrote:
>
>>>We (the collective 'we' here being, I suppose, any non-American English
>>>speaker, though I can hardly profess to speak for all of them) don't mind
>>>Americans changing the language in the least
>This is the whole point, one that some readers have failed to 'get'.
Whoa Tex! I think everyone has gotten the point. I wasn't meaning to bash
anyone. I was just poking fun at the different dialects of English. I grew
up surrounded by Brouges and Bronx accents that were constantly harping on
my use of the English language.
There aint no such word as aint...
Don't say "me and Joe", it's "Joe and me"
Tom
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"Tom Galvin" <tga### [at] dataforgecom> wrote:
>
>povray.org admin team wrote in message
><361426a9.436588571@news.povray.org>...
>>"Tom Galvin" <tga### [at] dataforgecom> wrote:
>>
>>>>We (the collective 'we' here being, I suppose, any non-American English
>>>>speaker, though I can hardly profess to speak for all of them) don't mind
>>>>Americans changing the language in the least
>
>>This is the whole point, one that some readers have failed to 'get'.
>
>Whoa Tex! I think everyone has gotten the point. I wasn't meaning to bash
>anyone. I was just poking fun at the different dialects of English. I grew
>up surrounded by Brouges and Bronx accents that were constantly harping on
>my use of the English language.
> There aint no such word as aint...
> Don't say "me and Joe", it's "Joe and me"
bau### [at] thiazicscornelledu (Garth Baulch)
Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY
(rec_humor_cull, chuckle)
A linguistics professor was lecturing to his class one day about the fact that
in many languages, such as English, a double negative forms a positive, while
in other languages, such as Russian, a double negative is still a negative.
"However," he pointed out, "in no language can a double positive form a
negative."
A bored voice from the back of the room responded, "Yeah, yeah...."
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To avoid annoying discussions on dialects and grammar changing with time I
herewith propose to make Latin the official language for POV. It is well
defined, it has been pretty stable over the last two millennia, it and it
does not use composed characters.
Frans
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Scientia est potestas!!!
--
Lance.
---
For the latest MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone
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Lance Birch wrote:
> Scientia est potestas!!!
Morituri' Pov Saluta'mus (we about to pov salute thee)
K.Tyler
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Sona si Latine loqueris!!!
--
Lance.
---
For the latest MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone
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Ve'ni, vi'di, vi'ci, di'es ir'ae.
Vae vic'tis, sic tran'sit glo'ria mun'di.
Ke'n
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Um, Ken... I don't ACTUALLY speak Latin! (Despite the my last post :-* Hey,
did you honk? ;-)
> Ve'ni, vi'di, vi'ci, di'es ir'ae.
> Vae vic'tis, sic tran'sit glo'ria mun'di.
Anyway, what does your message translate to???
Si hoc signum legere potes, operis boni in rebus Latinus alacribus et
fructuosis potiri potes! :-)
And just for fun:
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad
caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
or
Anulos qui animum ostendunt omnes gestemus! (OK, maybe not)
HAVE FUN!!!
--
Lance.
---
For the latest MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone
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Lance Birch wrote:
>
> Um, Ken... I don't ACTUALLY speak Latin! (Despite the my last post :-* Hey,
> did you honk? ;-)
>
> > Ve'ni, vi'di, vi'ci, di'es ir'ae.
> > Vae vic'tis, sic tran'sit glo'ria mun'di.
>
> Anyway, what does your message translate to???
Veni vidi vici--quote from Julius Caesar's autobiographical account of a
military encounter... traditionally translated as "I came, I saw, I
conquered." Vici can also be translated as "I overcame," giving the quote even
more repetition, but I digress (even further).
"Dies irae... Day of Wrath. A thirteenth-century Latin hymn on the Day of
Judgement, sung at the requiem mass." (from 'Amo, Amas, Amat and More', by
Eugene Ehrlich)
Vae victis--woe to the conquered. Spoken, I believe, by a "barbarian" (from
the latin for "beard") conquerer of Rome. He reportedly uttered this while
forcing the Roman citizens to pay him a certain weight in gold. When they
objected, he threw his sword on the side of the scale with the weight,
requiring even more gold to balance the scale...
"The words, literally 'woe to the vanquished,' attributed by Livy [famous
Roman historian] to Brennus, a chief of the Gauls arranging terms of peace
with the Romans in 390 BC..." (ibid.)
"Sic transit gloria mundi... so passes away the glory of the world. ...used at
the oronation of a pope..." (ibid.)
Ibid.-- an abbreviation for "ibidem", translated as "in the same place".
> Si hoc signum legere potes, operis boni in rebus Latinus alacribus et
> fructuosis potiri potes! :-)
Somehow, these services haven't been in much demand, lately... except for this
message, of course. I guess that's what I get for studying a "dead" language
(by which I mean that it is no one's native tongue. It may be the Vatican's
official language, but they aren't exactly known for keeping up to date.)
> Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad
> caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
That's not usually a phrase I can laugh at :)
> or
>
> Anulos qui animum ostendunt omnes gestemus! (OK, maybe not)
Ack! You forced me to get my Latin dictionary. (I didn't stick with Latin for
long.) And... my only response is that we're certainly displaying something
here, with all of this Latin... anyway...
> HAVE FUN!!!
>
> --
> Lance.
For someone who doesn't speak Latin...
...actually, (nearly) no one speaks latin anymore. Some people can read it;
and some of them can read it well.
(Latin provided by Henry Beard:)
Care Sancte Nicholas, aveo horologium manuale Rolicis, quattuor vestitus
Armanios, et curram a Ferrario factum.
An afterthought--wouldn't Esperanto be a better choice for a POV language? It
was designed to be nice to deal with... the only major drawback being that I
don't know anyone who speaks it (including myself).
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You really know what you're on about, don't you?!
Here's another one for you:
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota
monax materiam possit materiari?
He he he...
WOW, I must be a real radix lecti to be sitting here typing this :-)
So, Prehende uxorem meam, sis! He he he...
Oh, I'm really getting stupid here, so:
Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est. I prefer rice actually ;-)
Alright, I'm getting out of here now, I say ENOUGH stupidness!!! (OH WHO
CARES, LET IT CONTINUE!!!!!!)
--
Lance.
YEAH TO LATIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
---
For the latest MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone
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This is making me nauseous (not to mention bringing back very bad memories
of high school Latin classes ...)
You should switch to something more scintillating like Russian, or Hebrew,
or Sanskrit or even Hieroglyphs (hey, POV is a GRAPHICS program...) or even
(better yet) American Sign Language!
Are there differences in spelling between American Sign Language and British
Sign Language?
(tongue firmly in cheek ...)
Jim
Lance Birch wrote in message <36123945.0@news.povray.org>...
>You really know what you're on about, don't you?!
>
>Here's another one for you:
>
>Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota
>monax materiam possit materiari?
>
>He he he...
>
>WOW, I must be a real radix lecti to be sitting here typing this :-)
>
>So, Prehende uxorem meam, sis! He he he...
>
>Oh, I'm really getting stupid here, so:
>
>Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est. I prefer rice actually ;-)
>
>Alright, I'm getting out of here now, I say ENOUGH stupidness!!! (OH WHO
>CARES, LET IT CONTINUE!!!!!!)
>
>--
>Lance.
>
>YEAH TO
LATIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>---
>For the latest MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
>The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone
>
>
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Yep :-) But only in the way you do the signs.
Actually ASL sounds like a good alternative ;-* (except the help file's size
might sky-rocket with all those pictures ;-)
--
Lance.
---
For the latest MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone
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F.VERBAAS wrote:
> To avoid annoying discussions on dialects and grammar changing with time I
> herewith propose to make Latin the official language for POV. It is well
> defined, it has been pretty stable over the last two millennia, it and it
> does not use composed characters.
>
> Frans
OPTIME!!!!!! Est iustum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Perbene!
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POV vincit omnia!!!!POV pinge omnia!!!! De POV est de Deo!!!!
F.VERBAAS wrote:
> To avoid annoying discussions on dialects and grammar changing with time I
> herewith propose to make Latin the official language for POV. It is well
> defined, it has been pretty stable over the last two millennia, it and it
> does not use composed characters.
>
> Frans
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>I do believe the English have also changed the language a bit over the
>centuries. The English of Chaucer was not the English of the Beowolf
>poet, nor is Shakespere's English that of Chaucer. The Brittish English
>of today is not exactly that which was spoken by Shakespere, either.
>Language altering is not strictly an American habit, but in the passing
>of history nearly every language has developed it's own dialects, and
>every written language has made extensive changes to its orthography.
>Let's be fair....
Off topic, but here goes:
Those of you with RealAudio should visit
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/BBC_English/swissconf
somewhere on that site, Peter Trudgill (linguist) estimates how English will
sound in 200 years' time...
CU
Ade
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Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote in article
<360### [at] pacbellnet>...
> Mike wrote:
>
> > Az an American az well, I would like to zay that I think thiz personz
complaint iz
> > a perfectly good one. Fine, wordz like optimized, minimized, and
customized might
> > not in any way impact the actual performanze of the program, but who
are U 2 write
> > anything that doezn't conform to the U Z of A'z form of mutilated
Englizh. We are
> > the ones who have taken the lowly Z and made it into zomething useful.
Until we
> > got our handz on it, the only uze for it waz when writing the word
zebra. What a
> > wazte.
> >
> > Therefore, I would like to izzue a formal requezt for the following
zyntax:
> >
> > zphere
> > zuperellipzoid
> > zor
> > tranzmit
> > tranzlate
> > zcale
> > zpiral1
> > zpiral2
> > wrinklz
> > mezh
> > zpotted
> > zpecular
> > roughnezz
> >
> > Therz probably more, but I'm too upzet too think of them. Az a matter
of fact, the
> > only one you got right waz bozo!
> >
> > sinzerily,
> >
> > zelda ziznadiznorn
> > UZA
>
> It probably won't happen. I think I figured out why the
> Britizh are so reziztant towardz uzing the letter Z. You zee
> they are not taught how to uze the Z key when taking
> typing clazzez, where in the USA, it iz mandatory to learn
> how to type that letter.
>
> Ken Tyler
>
Nah, it's cos we don't like all the sharp pointy corners. I can understand
how you lot can get along with sharp corners, what with all your roads
being at right angles to each other, but over here we like everything nice
and curvy. ;-)
--
Scott Hill
Sco### [at] DDLinkscouk
Software Engineer (and all round nice guy)
Author of Pandora's Box
Company homepage : http://www.ddlinks.demon.co.uk
"The best trick the devil ever pulled was convincing people he didn't
exist..."
- Verbal Kint.
"the Internet is here so we can waste time talking about nothing in
particular when we should be working" - Marcus Hill.
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Well... That's not only This Year's most ARROGANT email, but... I think it's on the
way to become This Year's LONGEST thread, too ! As a french people (sorry...) I'm
not as concerned as many other people, even if I effectively entirely agree with
you.
Oh, sorry, I thougt it was just a little funny to show that even far concerned
people can be impressed to see how deeply can people react to such questions, even
if, at first, this place was not dedicated to it... :)
Seriously, I must say - despite to all "pro z" (prozac... ?) reactions - that in
most non english speaking countries, we learn your language with a "traditionnal"
english scripting... If it can mean anything in this situation !
It doesn't mean that we would forget other language evolutions, but simply that
it's easier for us - and more friendly to young students fighting with english
basics - to find softwares using vocabulary according to what we learnt a few years
ago.
Through all of it, and I think as many "z" and "s" think so, just let me thank you
once again for this really marvellous work. There is only one thing I could say :
Continue, You're on a really good way...
Avec mes plus sinceres remerciements... ;-)
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In South Chicago for example, 'over there' becomes 'over by dere'
Even in America we can't pick pronunciation ...
-- Ron
povray.org admin team wrote in message
<36053b2a.48950236@news.povray.org>...
>Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
>
>>David Greaves wrote:
>>
>>> If you look at it, even the letter Z (pronounced zed of course) is
arrogant.
>>> All those angles and straight lines.
>>
>>"Pronounced zed" ?
>
>Yep. The English way of saying the letter 'z' is 'zed'. Americans (and
American
>influenced countries) say 'zee'.
>
>There's a bunch of other stuff, too. Most of them relate to Americans
>'simplifying' words or sounds to make them either easier to pronounce, or
>easier to say. Hence colour becomes color, Aluminium becomes Aluminum, and
so
>forth.
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Hell, Wisconsin people have asked me where the 'bubbler' is ... and I have
blown spit bubbles ..
How would I know that meant a drinking fountain?
-- Ron
Ken wrote in message <36054595.82F405B0@pacbell.net>...
>povray.org admin team wrote:
>
>> Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
>>
>> >David Greaves wrote:
>> >
>> >> If you look at it, even the letter Z (pronounced zed of course) is
arrogant.
>> >> All those angles and straight lines.
>> >
>> >"Pronounced zed" ?
>>
>> Yep. The English way of saying the letter 'z' is 'zed'. Americans (and
American
>> influenced countries) say 'zee'.
>>
>> There's a bunch of other stuff, too. Most of them relate to Americans
>> 'simplifying' words or sounds to make them either easier to pronounce, or
>> easier to say. Hence colour becomes color, Aluminium becomes Aluminum,
and so
>> forth.
>
> I agree with what you say although the British are not
>immune from doing the same thing. Take the common
>expressions "telly" and "uni" for the correct pronounciation
>of television and university.
> Either way it is no excuse for ridicule, calling it a progam bug,
>and taking up your time with such trivialities.
>
>Ken
>
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Your british, aren't you??? <g>
-- Ron
Mark Radosevich wrote in message <360871A6.66BFD0C3@randolph.SPAM.edu>...
>> >but its against any netiquette to post privat email in a newsgroup.
>>
>> 1) not all of the email was posted (just the offending section)
>>
>> 2) mail sent to the bug reporting address is hardly 'private'.
>> 'private' email is that sent between individuals for the
>> purpose of communications. a bug report is obviously something
>> that may be disseminated to others (that's half the reason for
>> sending them in some cases).
>>
>> so your comments don't apply in this case. we do not consider bug reports
>> private.
>
>hmmm... a good point, and a good reply...
>I know I'm splitting hairs here, but I've gotta say this: I think it's safe
to
>say that Jason considered his e-mail to be private, and certainly not to be
>posted in a newsgroup to be laughed at. As inconsiderate as he may be, he
>doesn't deserve our unkindness in return. Whether all of the e-mail was
posted
>or not isn't really the point; some of it was posted, and his e-mail
address
>was not omitted (I haven't checked to see whether it is an actual address),
>presumably without his knowledge. That's questionable netiquette,
especially
>considering the tone of the post ("We also would like to officially
nominate
>Jason Barlow for the 'Rudest Support Email of 1998' award.") I would be
>surprised if he hasn't received other e-mails, which were actually
encouraged:
>
>>we're posting this here in the hope that some of
>>his fellow POV Users will also be able to explain this to him in a more
>>reasoned way (rather then the somewhat annoyed tone of our reply ;)
>
>Chances are that not all of them were intelligently and patiently written.
>Personally, I hope that the quick reply, written "in no uncertain terms",
was
>enough for Jason to realise how thoughtless he was. If not, then he may
flaunt
>his ignorance elsewhere, with other consequences. I agree that he was
>surprisingly inconsiderate, but he doesn't deserve this public ridicule.
Had
>he posted that message himself, I wouldn't post this one, but he didn't, so
I have.
>
>
>
>-Mark R.
>(considering what a Macophile I am, it's amusing that I'm posting to
'povray.windows'...)
>
>(to e-mail, change "SPAM" to spa)
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Its all english, and it's all readable. Lets just all get along!
-- Ron
povray.org admin team wrote in message
<361426a9.436588571@news.povray.org>...
>"Tom Galvin" <tga### [at] dataforgecom> wrote:
>
>>>We (the collective 'we' here being, I suppose, any non-American English
>>>speaker, though I can hardly profess to speak for all of them) don't mind
>>>Americans changing the language in the least
>>
>>If we exclude the English and the Americans then we are left with the
Kiwis,
>>Aussies, Irish, Welsh and the Scots. Any one who has heard those
>>interpretations of English should have little to say about American
English.
>
>Precisely. So we don't complain about their english, just about the fact
that a
>few of them rudely complain about _ours_.
>
>This is the whole point, one that some readers have failed to 'get'. We're
all
>welcome to do whatever we like to our own regional variations of English.
But
>none of us should go about implying that someone else lacks intelligence
(as
>Jason did to us) because that other person uses their own, regional,
variation
>of English spelling (regardless of whether or not it is 'true' English as
the
>English spell it).
>
>No-one here has said the Americans have it wrong, and the
Aussies/Irish/Kiwis
>etc. have it right. Just that we're not wrong, either (yes, it's possible
for
>both of us to be right).
>
>Had I been an Australian user of a software package and had written to an
>American firm rudely questioning their intelligence because they spelt
minimise
>with a 'z' then I would have been just as guilty. But I won't, because I
know
>that Americans have their own spelling and I respect that fact.
>
>I've never yet personally come across a software package that does menu and
>documentation spelling substitutions based on the country settings - not
even
>Microsoft Word [a likely candidate] does that. [FWIW Word does correctly
mark
>words such as 'minimize' as incorrectly spelt, and suggests the 's'
variation,
>when set to British English].
>
>Therefore, software (for the time being) is likely to continue to come out
with
>its own regional spelling in documentation and menus, and there's little
that
>can be done about it except just accept it.
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Hey! There are american'z here who don't zpeak dat latin ztuff. Clue uz
in!
Lance Birch wrote in message <3611a571.0@news.povray.org>...
>Um, Ken... I don't ACTUALLY speak Latin! (Despite the my last post :-*
Hey,
>did you honk? ;-)
>
>> Ve'ni, vi'di, vi'ci, di'es ir'ae.
>> Vae vic'tis, sic tran'sit glo'ria mun'di.
>
>Anyway, what does your message translate to???
>
>Si hoc signum legere potes, operis boni in rebus Latinus alacribus et
>fructuosis potiri potes! :-)
>
>And just for fun:
>
>Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad
>caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
>
>or
>
>Anulos qui animum ostendunt omnes gestemus! (OK, maybe not)
>
>HAVE FUN!!!
>
>--
>Lance.
>
>
>---
>For the latest MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
>The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone
>
>
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No espeakun latinum no getum jokuim. So solly Cholly.
Ken Tyler
Ron Bieber wrote:
> Hey! There are american'z here who don't zpeak dat latin ztuff. Clue uz
> in!
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>>Si hoc signum legere potes, operis boni in rebus Latinus alacribus et
>>fructuosis potiri potes! :-)
translates to...
If you can read this sign, you can get a good job in
the fast-paced, high-paying world of Latin!
>>Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad
>>caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
translates to...
I have a catapult. Give me all the money, or I will
fling an enormous rock at your head.
>>Anulos qui animum ostendunt omnes gestemus! (OK, maybe not)
translates to...
Let's all wear mood rings! ;-)
Did that clear that up? : )
Oh, and adid I meantion this one...
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota
monax materiam possit materiari?
which translates to...
How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck
could chuck wood?
--
Lance.
---
For the latest MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone
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Ron Bieber wrote:
>
> Your british, aren't you??? <g>
nope, merely a nonconformist :)
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On Tue, 10 Nov 1998 00:02:49 +0000, Mark Radosevich
<mar### [at] randolphspaedu> wrote:
>Ron Bieber wrote:
>>
>> Your british, aren't you??? <g>
>
>nope, merely a nonconformist :)
This thread was dead, can't we leave it that way, please?
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Ron Parker <par### [at] my-dejanewscom> wrote in article
<36483fef.0@news.povray.org>...
> On Tue, 10 Nov 1998 00:02:49 +0000, Mark Radosevich
> <mar### [at] randolphspaedu> wrote:
> >Ron Bieber wrote:
> >>
> >> Your british, aren't you??? <g>
> >
> >nope, merely a nonconformist :)
>
> This thread was dead, can't we leave it that way, please?
Didn't you hear ? Some of us had a seance, we just wanted a chat with
Elvis, but it all went a bit wrong and we ended up pulling this poor thread
out from beyond the grave.
--
Scott Hill
Sco### [at] DDLinkscouk
Software Engineer (and all round nice guy)
Author of Pandora's Box
Company homepage : http://www.ddlinks.demon.co.uk
"The best trick the devil ever pulled was convincing people he didn't
exist..."
- Verbal Kint.
"the Internet is here so we can waste time talking about nothing in
particular when we should be working" - Marcus Hill.
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Jim Kress wrote in message <36140feb.0@news.povray.org>...
>This is making me nauseous (not to mention bringing back very bad memories
>of high school Latin classes ...)
>
>You should switch to something more scintillating like Russian, or Hebrew,
>or Sanskrit or even Hieroglyphs (hey, POV is a GRAPHICS program...) or even
>(better yet) American Sign Language!
Sumerian. Definitely Sumerian.
Mark
Who does not speak with a thick Sumerian accent.
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Geez ... Some people have no sense of humor!
--
Jim
Check out my web site http://www.kressworks.com/
It'll blow your mind (politically), stimulate your senses (artistically)
and provide scientific insights that boggle the mind!
Mark Wagner <mar### [at] gtenet> wrote in message
news:375f5901@news.povray.org...
>
> Jim Kress wrote in message <36140feb.0@news.povray.org>...
> >This is making me nauseous (not to mention bringing back very bad
memories
> >of high school Latin classes ...)
> >
> >You should switch to something more scintillating like Russian, or
Hebrew,
> >or Sanskrit or even Hieroglyphs (hey, POV is a GRAPHICS program...) or
even
> >(better yet) American Sign Language!
>
>
> Sumerian. Definitely Sumerian.
>
> Mark
> Who does not speak with a thick Sumerian accent.
>
>
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Actually, as an American, I was not aware that "minimized" with a z was
the official spelling in Queen's English. I knew about the "colour"
thing.
"povray.org admin team" wrote:
>
> From time to time we of the POV-Team get bug reports or complaints that are
> downright rude and sometimes also insulting. Today we received this doozy which
> has to rate as one of the most rude and insulting emails we can recall
> receiving this year.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Return-Path: jas### [at] xmissioncom
> From: "Jason Barlow" <jas### [at] xmissioncom>
> To: <win### [at] povrayorg>
> Subject: Minor Bug...
> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 01:03:02 -0600
>
> [request for the following 'bug' to be fixed in version 3.1 deleted]
>
> Whoever is writing the string/menu resources for the Windows version is not
> very adept with words like optimized, minimized, or customized...all of which
> are misspelled: optimised, minimised, and customised in POVray. Bad spelling
> is just one of those things that detracts from the professionalism of the
> product and makes users question the intelligence of the authors.
>
> [rest of email deleted]
>
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It's not too smart to complain to a group of people that give YOU this renderer for
free. Please do not screw it up for the rest of us by ticking them off, because it
would be an awful shame it I would not be able to further use Pov-Ray because it
requires money which I don't redily have.
Tim Soderstrom
(how does it feel?)
Chuck Roberts wrote:
> Actually, as an American, I was not aware that "minimized" with a z was
> the official spelling in Queen's English. I knew about the "colour"
> thing.
>
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On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 13:13:50 -0400, Chuck Roberts <rob### [at] accnorg> wrote:
>Actually, as an American, I was not aware [..]
Hi, Chuck. You may want to set your Netscape browser to retrieve more
recent messages than the one you've replied to from 1998. From my
observations in these newsgroups, message threads much older than a few days
without further response are considered 'old news'.
--
Alan
--------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.povray.org - Home of the Persistence of Vision Ray Tracer
news.povray.org - where POV-Ray enthusiasts around the world can get
together to exchange ideas, information, and experiences with others
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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I wasn't complaining. I was just thinking out loud. Actually, I DO use
minimize with a z. Never thought about it before.
TigerHawk wrote:
>
> It's not too smart to complain to a group of people that give YOU this renderer for
> free. Please do not screw it up for the rest of us by ticking them off, because it
> would be an awful shame it I would not be able to further use Pov-Ray because it
> requires money which I don't redily have.
>
> Tim Soderstrom
>
> (how does it feel?)
>
> Chuck Roberts wrote:
>
> > Actually, as an American, I was not aware that "minimized" with a z was
> > the official spelling in Queen's English. I knew about the "colour"
> > thing.
> >
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Well I'm English, and I spell some of them with an S, things like
organisation, it annoys me to see that with a Z. But I don't
think I'd go to the trouble of complaining about it.
I do much prefer colour though it could be argued that color is
closest to the original as languages such as Spanish use it, and
they're much closer to Latin than English is these days. Anybody
know what colour is in Latin?
Steve (with a ph).
Chuck Roberts wrote:
>
> I wasn't complaining. I was just thinking out loud. Actually, I DO use
> minimize with a z. Never thought about it before.
>
> TigerHawk wrote:
> >
> > It's not too smart to complain to a group of people that give YOU this renderer
for
> > free. Please do not screw it up for the rest of us by ticking them off, because it
> > would be an awful shame it I would not be able to further use Pov-Ray because it
> > requires money which I don't redily have.
> >
> > Tim Soderstrom
> >
> > (how does it feel?)
> >
> > Chuck Roberts wrote:
> >
> > > Actually, as an American, I was not aware that "minimized" with a z was
> > > the official spelling in Queen's English. I knew about the "colour"
> > > thing.
> > >
--
Cheers
Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
%HAV-A-NICEDAY Error reading file mailto:sjl### [at] ndirectcouk
web: http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~sjlen/
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Steve wrote:
>
> Well I'm English, and I spell some of them with an S, things like
> organisation, it annoys me to see that with a Z. But I don't
> think I'd go to the trouble of complaining about it.
>
> I do much prefer colour though it could be argued that color is
> closest to the original as languages such as Spanish use it, and
> they're much closer to Latin than English is these days. Anybody
> know what colour is in Latin?
>
> Steve (with a ph).
The whole point of this now over hashed thread is spell it any way you
like but don't send an email to Chris Cason complaining about how he spells
it. If you do you may become the next intense focal point for a similar
thread and it is not an enviable position to be in.
Let it go !
--
Ken Tyler
See my 700+ Povray and 3D Rendering and Raytracing Links at:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html
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Steve asks:
>Anybody
> know what colour is in Latin?
>
Sort of a greenish pink....
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On Thu, 19 Aug 1999 19:03:31 -0700, Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
>Let it go !
Hi, Ken. This thread is old news. That's why I didn't make any mention of
it in my earlier post to Chuck. It's been hashed and re-hashed ad nauseum.
It's history, bygones.
I'm setting Agent to filter this thread. Good luck to you if you choose to
stick around, Ken! Later.
--
Alan
--------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.povray.org - Home of the Persistence of Vision Ray Tracer
news.povray.org - where POV-Ray enthusiasts around the world can get
together to exchange ideas, information, and experiences with others
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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