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"Thomas de Groot" <tDOTdegroot@interDOTnlANOTHERDOTnet> wrote in message
news:49ae4e0c$1@news.povray.org...
>
> "Chris B" <nom### [at] nomail com> schreef in bericht
> news:49ad3410$1@news.povray.org...
>>
>> "Thomas de Groot" <tDOTdegroot@interDOTnlANOTHERDOTnet> wrote in message
>> news:49ad2eb5$1@news.povray.org...
>>>
>>> "Chris B" <nom### [at] nomailcom> schreef in bericht
>>> news:49ad0a9e$1@news.povray.org...
>>>>
>>>> I have an old hair growth macro that tracks individual hairs, following
>>>> the contours of an anatomy and responding to gravity.
>>>
>>> If that could also work with Poser figures exported to POV, that would
>>> be very interesting. My guess is that it should work.
>>>
>>
>> I think you'd get a problem with figures exported from Poser, because I
>> think you just get a mesh object. So working out where the various
>> relevant bits are positioned and how they are oriented, so that you can
>> use a POV-Ray macro to grow hair out of particular parts of the mesh, is
>> probably very tricky.
>>
>
> What if you already have the (dynamic) hairs from Poser available, and
> exported as lines by Poseray? Would that help?
>
I'm not sure. I've never used that.
The macro just needs a couple of objects and a couple of vectors to tell it
how the object is positioned and oriented. The main object is a shell that
it can trim to shape to form the hairline object. This can actually just be
a slice of the main object or just the difference between two spheres to
give a shell that fairly closely maps to the skull. It uses trace to
randomly find hair starting positions on this object. The other object is
the real anatomy object that it uses to trace the hairs down over. It
follows some simple rules to respond to gravity, curl and stuff, then it
uses trace to make sure it doesn't penetrate the surface of the anatomy
object.
It's the same basic hair macro that I used to generate a couple of
animations back in 2006.
http://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.animations/thread/%3C457d2bfb@news.povray.org%3E/?ttop=261005&toff=50
Regards,
Chris B.
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"Chris B" <nom### [at] nomailcom> schreef in bericht
news:49ae61ce$1@news.povray.org...
>
> The macro just needs a couple of objects and a couple of vectors to tell
> it how the object is positioned and oriented. The main object is a shell
> that it can trim to shape to form the hairline object. This can actually
> just be a slice of the main object or just the difference between two
> spheres to give a shell that fairly closely maps to the skull. It uses
> trace to randomly find hair starting positions on this object. The other
> object is the real anatomy object that it uses to trace the hairs down
> over. It follows some simple rules to respond to gravity, curl and stuff,
> then it uses trace to make sure it doesn't penetrate the surface of the
> anatomy object.
Hm. Maybe even simpler then. A Poser figure's hair is provided with a skull
cap which closely follows the shape of the head where hairs should be. This
can also be made quite easily for other body parts, e.g. for growing a
beard. Using this skull cap (which exports to POV as a mesh2 object, just
like the rest of the Poser figure) your macro could grow the hair just like
you describe, and use trace on the main figure to find the collision points.
Seems feasible to me :-)
Thomas
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"Thomas de Groot" <tDOTdegroot@interDOTnlANOTHERDOTnet> wrote in message
news:49aea1c6$1@news.povray.org...
>
>
> Hm. Maybe even simpler then. A Poser figure's hair is provided with a
> skull cap which closely follows the shape of the head where hairs should
> be. This can also be made quite easily for other body parts, e.g. for
> growing a beard. Using this skull cap (which exports to POV as a mesh2
> object, just like the rest of the Poser figure) your macro could grow the
> hair just like you describe, and use trace on the main figure to find the
> collision points. Seems feasible to me :-)
>
Yes that does sound quite feasible then. So long as it gives you something
to tell you the position and orientation of the skull cap on a posed figure?
Regards,
Chris B.
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"Chris B" <nom### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> I'm still enhancing the POV-Ray export functionality, so if anyone has any
> spiffing ideas, or wants to help, let me know.
>
Okay, one thing that I did notice was that I had to create a "texture.tga"
image-- I made it all pink-- in order to get the files to render. Did I miss
something about the intended use of an include, or was this an oversight.
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"gregjohn" <pte### [at] yahoocom> wrote in message
news:web.49aef23ffea29af834d207310@news.povray.org...
> "Chris B" <nom### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
>> I'm still enhancing the POV-Ray export functionality, so if anyone has
>> any
>> spiffing ideas, or wants to help, let me know.
>>
>
> Okay, one thing that I did notice was that I had to create a "texture.tga"
> image-- I made it all pink-- in order to get the files to render. Did I
> miss
> something about the intended use of an include, or was this an oversight.
>
Sorry about that, the texture.tga file was replaced by the file texture.tif
and I noticed a couple of hours too late to get it in the build used for
this pre-release:
To fix this there are two references, one in each of the generated 'pov' and
'inc' files to 'tga "texture.tga"'. These need changing to 'tiff
"texture.tif"' and the file "texture.tif" needs to be copied from
"data/textures/" to "pov_output/".
Regards,
Chris B.
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"Chris B" <nom### [at] nomailcom> schreef in bericht
news:49aeb089$1@news.povray.org...
>
>
> Yes that does sound quite feasible then. So long as it gives you something
> to tell you the position and orientation of the skull cap on a posed
> figure?
>
Well, it does I suppose, the skull cap being part of the figure's union{} or
do I understand you wrongly here?
Thomas
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"Thomas de Groot" <tDOTdegroot@interDOTnlANOTHERDOTnet> wrote in message
news:49af8daa@news.povray.org...
>
> "Chris B" <nom### [at] nomailcom> schreef in bericht
> news:49aeb089$1@news.povray.org...
>>
>>
>> Yes that does sound quite feasible then. So long as it gives you
>> something to tell you the position and orientation of the skull cap on a
>> posed figure?
>>
>
> Well, it does I suppose, the skull cap being part of the figure's union{}
> or do I understand you wrongly here?
>
You'd need to be able to get a position vector and an orientation vector
from somewhere. Once an object is defined as a POV-Ray object it can be
difficult to ascertain those things, particularly on a pre-posed model,
where the hairline could be just about anywhere and at any angle.
If you get a mesh or mesh2 object where the head is tilted forwards and
maybe a bit sideways, maybe covered by the figures hands, then all you can
really tell from the hairline and body objects themselves is their minimum
and maximum extents. There's nothing available to POV-Ray to tell it the
orientation of the hairline object or the position of the hair growth centre
(or where a parting has to go etc.).
On the other hand, if Poser gives you anything that fixes the skull position
in 3 places, then that can be used to deduce the orientation of the
hairline. E.g. the positions of the eyes and the top of the spine. These
values could also then be used to get an approximate position for the hair
growth centre point etc.
Regards,
Chris B.
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"Chris B" <nom### [at] nomailcom> schreef in bericht
news:49afa5f0@news.povray.org...
>
>
> You'd need to be able to get a position vector and an orientation vector
> from somewhere. Once an object is defined as a POV-Ray object it can be
> difficult to ascertain those things, particularly on a pre-posed model,
> where the hairline could be just about anywhere and at any angle.
>
> If you get a mesh or mesh2 object where the head is tilted forwards and
> maybe a bit sideways, maybe covered by the figures hands, then all you can
> really tell from the hairline and body objects themselves is their minimum
> and maximum extents. There's nothing available to POV-Ray to tell it the
> orientation of the hairline object or the position of the hair growth
> centre (or where a parting has to go etc.).
>
> On the other hand, if Poser gives you anything that fixes the skull
> position in 3 places, then that can be used to deduce the orientation of
> the hairline. E.g. the positions of the eyes and the top of the spine.
> These values could also then be used to get an approximate position for
> the hair growth centre point etc.
>
All right. That is a bit more complicated than I imagined, but not
impossible I guess. I think that experimentation is going to be needed to
see if all this is indeed able to be integrated.
Thomas
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Okay, after some more tweaking, I've got two questions:
i) Is all the functionality there right now for making hair? The only code I
see seems to want a "hair.inc" and I don't see anywhere that gets created.
ii) How are the eyes controlled? In a few of my various renderings, I see eyes,
but haven't figured out how to actually make them appear.
iii) What will be the eventual use of all the joint variables? I've made up
characters in povray before where I was able to animate them based on a given
set of joints-- I could share a youtube link if it's not overly obvious what I
mean. Are you looking to have either a boned mesh whose bones are "animatable"
in povray, or a group of objects (thigh object, etc.) that are animatable?
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"gregjohn" <pte### [at] yahoocom> wrote in message
news:web.49b02838fea29af834d207310@news.povray.org...
> Okay, after some more tweaking, I've got two questions:
>
> i) Is all the functionality there right now for making hair? The only
> code I
> see seems to want a "hair.inc" and I don't see anywhere that gets created.
No. The code for generating the mesh2 object from which the hairs will be
grown is already there (the MakeHuman_Hairline group defined at the bottom
of the makehuman_groupings.inc file). One of the examples in the generated
scene file is designed to use an external hair generation include file
"hair.inc" to grow hairs out of the object, but that isn't yet ready. When I
have a version running properly my plan is to load this onto the Object
Collection rather than distribute it with MakeHuman. The example in the
generated scene file currently detects the absence of this file and just
reports that in the message stream.
> ii) How are the eyes controlled? In a few of my various renderings, I see
> eyes,
> but haven't figured out how to actually make them appear.
The eyes are part of the texture map 'texture.tif'. They should appear
wherever the standard texture is used (e.g. Examples 0 and 1 in the
generated scene file). You can't currently do much to 'control' them unless
you want to edit a copy of the texture map in a graphics editor. In the full
function release I would expect that you'll be able to pose the eyes in
MakeHuman (hopefully in May according to the current plan).
> iii) What will be the eventual use of all the joint variables? I've made
> up
> characters in povray before where I was able to animate them based on a
> given
> set of joints-- I could share a youtube link if it's not overly obvious
> what I
> mean. Are you looking to have either a boned mesh whose bones are
> "animatable"
> in povray, or a group of objects (thigh object, etc.) that are animatable?
The general answer is that I've attempted to structure this export to give
POV-Ray users access to data that we can use in any way we want. The current
use that I've put these particular variables to is to evaluate the position
and orientation of body parts (initially to create the hairline object).
They can also be used for positioning and orienting other POV-Ray props
(clothing, walking sticks, glasses, car seats etc) relative to the generated
human figure. It will be interesting to see how people use this data.
It should be possible to use this data to pose/animate other figures as you
describe once the pose functionality of MakeHuman is available. FYI, there
is already code in the MakeHuman application (though not yet exposed through
the GUI) to generate BVH files that could be used for rigging other forms of
character in a variety of other modelling tools. I have seen animation
features on the list of things that the MakeHuman Team is planning to
implement, though I'm not sure when we can expect this to be ready.
Regards,
Chris B.
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