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> I mean: a real head is not a perfect solid with uniform density. This
>is, IMHO, why it always looks like wax/soap when you apply faked SSS to
>an empty object. The SSS effect should be different on places with bones
>more close to the skin surface than in others with more flesh or muscles
>between the skin and the skull, and this only seems possible by
>modeling, at least roughly, the internal structure.
>
>--
>Jaime
Theoretically correct but I need to see if it really works.
Rene
(the old newbie)
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>this has a very "I, Robot" quality.
"Rene Bui" <rene.bui [at] freefr> wrote in message
news:web.41dcf99d422926ef9cc1eaf50@news.povray.org...
> And as bonus, here is the Jaime's custom car paint version ! ;-)
>
> Rene
> (the old newbie)
>
Thanks
Rene
(the old newbie)
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Rene Bui wrote:
>>I thought the translucency you got there
>>was pretty amazing and beyond anything I was ever able to achieve.
>
> Thank you so much
>
>
>>Where do these test fit in with the results you got in your post of 9/19
>>titled Always my Wings model?
>
> Oh Jim.. you talk to me as if I just live in Canal street, but I'm not.
> Remember, my english is preteen level.
I apolgize.
> Do you mean these images are worse than my post of 9/19 ?
>
I think the translucent look of the flesh was lost in the later images.
I value that translucent look more than some of the effects you
achieved in the later images.
I think that it is this translucent look of the flesh, the effect of the
light showing through from behind, that is what people are trying to get
with SSS. But maybe you achieved it another way? I was never able to
accomplish that and would love to know how you did it. Forgive me, I
cannot think of simpler words to use. Sure wish I knew French :(
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I'm lost, don't know what SSS is, but I do know these images are very good.
- Grim
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GrimDude wrote:
> I'm lost, don't know what SSS is, but I do know these images are very good.
>
> - Grim
>
>
Sub-surface Scattering. The idea is that for many materials ( well all
materials really ) light penetrates the surface somewhat before being
refracted back. With some materials, like marble or human skin this
produces noticable effects. There are renderman shaders for instance
that attempt to reproduce these effects. Some time ago Mael and others
began experimenting with using dense media within objects, and leaving
the surface transparent, as a POV-Ray solution to this issue. The
results are a dramatic success when simulating homogenous materials such
as jade or wax. But as a way of treating skin, good results remain
elusive. This seems to be mostly because of the need for a
semitransparent rather than totally transparent surface plane to achieve
much of the information that skin offers the eye. Hence the subtle
milky effect of the dense media is lost. That's my take on it anyway.
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"Jim Charter" <jrc### [at] msn com> wrote in message
news:41ddf75e$1@news.povray.org...
> Sub-surface Scattering. The idea is that for many materials <snip - with
> apologies>
Understood now. I recall having tried to recreate SSS (so proud I can use
that now) with a slower computer than I have now and having given up. It's
been awhile. I can see why the frustration came about for Rene now.
I'll save this for later, thank you! :)
- Grim
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On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 03:20:54 -0500, Rene Bui wrote:
> Hi all,
> I'm working on skin+sss through pov media. Well... I would say : it's SSSo
> hard !
> As you know , too many translucent problems, a lot of time for tweaking
> and then waiting for render etc. etc.
> Now I say to myself : probably it's time to give up. :-(
>
> I'm not happy with the results but perhaps my eyes are simply tired.
> Anyway, here are some of my last tests.
>
>
> Rene
> (the old newbie)
Pretty good. The only problems I see are:
* Too uniform. Try adding random redder areas - at least my skin varies in
tone quite a lot. Also try adding other imperfections, and blood veins
(long areas of darker, bluish tone).
* No body hair. Human have a fur coat, even if it's sparse enough to not
be easily visible. It doesn't matter in the far shots, but closeups look a
bit weird without it. Maybe use sphere sweeps and near translucent, light
texture for it ?
* The bumbs in skin (especially the backs of hands) are not round, but
streched, all in the same direction. If you're using a bumb map, try
scaling it with 1.5 in one direction.
* Too much highlight - higlight makes skin look very greasy which
conflicts with the seemingly complete lack of dirt.
This is simply the old problem of computer models being mathematically
perfect, and reality being anything but perfect, and this making
computer-generated images seem unreal...
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"JS" <no### [at] spammersallowed> wrote in message
news:pan### [at] spammersallowed...
>
> This is simply the old problem of computer models being mathematically
> perfect, and reality being anything but perfect, and this making
> computer-generated images seem unreal...
Yeah, that's right! Make it more... grim! Heh.
- Grim
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"Rene Bui" <ren### [at] freefr> wrote
> Hi all,
> I'm working on skin+sss through pov media. Well... I would say : it's SSSo
> hard !
> As you know , too many translucent problems, a lot of time for tweaking
and
> then waiting for render etc. etc.
> Now I say to myself : probably it's time to give up. :-(
>
> I'm not happy with the results but perhaps my eyes are simply tired.
> Anyway, here are some of my last tests.
Very impressive. Nevertheless, SSS (real or fake) doesn't work for me on
human flesh (unless it's very very muted). It gives a waxy/varnished look.
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>I think the translucent look of the flesh was lost in the later images.
>I value that translucent look more than some of the effects you
>achieved in the later images.
I must notify an important point concerning the first image (9/19): there
was a photograph uv-mapped, on the contrary the later images have not, it
is a
psp hand-made texture.
Perhaps it's why unconsciously you make the difference. Obviously,
photograph make things more real. Besides, the more I learn cg/skin the
more I think using photographs* as diffuse texture is a kind of heresy due
to
their inadequate lighting.
(*)But works very well as bump map
>I think that it is this translucent look of the flesh, the effect of the
>light showing through from behind, that is what people are trying to get
>with SSS. But maybe you achieved it another way? I was never able to
>accomplish that and would love to know how you did it.
Technically, I know nothing else that all people knows yet and even less.
Often, I'm feel like a blind man in a dark room.. You know, I'm an artist
(cg
newbie) not a programmer.
This is why I can't bring up some good tricks to the community and also
why I'm feel frustrated opening this thread.
With SSS/media in pov, I can't do my own rules and use them from scene
to scene. It's annoying. Every time I move a bit the camera or lights or
objects, every time I have to waste many hours for tweaking and tuning
once more.
But there is one thing (maybe two) I know : the light is very important, I
mean the balance you have to do between different sources. For example,
the light from behind the head must be stronger enough but not too much to
get the translucency (I use *n factor, fade_distance and fade_power), and I
always balance at least with a low factor light from foreground because the
radiosity can't do that alone. Another trick is about the ears : in some
case,
I detached them (within wings) from the head. So they have their own
material and transparency (transmitting/filtering factor). The problem can
be
the visible border between ear and head, but in certain poses it can be
hide.
It depends on so many things and all situations are so different...
I would like to see more post about flesh in this newsgroup, it could be
helpful for me or others. I went to Jaime's website, but he stop
(temporarely) his skin experiments, I went to Oyonale but Gilles is very
discreet these days, I saw your great chimp post of 01/2004 but I believe
you never post the next step. So I 'm feel a bit alone with this subject.
>Forgive me, I cannot think of simpler words to use. Sure wish I knew
>French :(
Don't worry, I took time to look at my dictionary. ;-)
Rene
(the old newbie)
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