> High!
> 
> For the time being, I decided to fix my illumination problem by using a

> shadowless fill light for my apartment, of course with a fading to avoi
d
> additional illumination of the outside world. As I placed the fill ligh
t
> light right on the x center of the block, which is 5.54 units from the
> outer edge of the balcony door opening, I set the fading_distance to 5.
54.
> 
> Strangely, if I use fading_power 10 (to get a really sharp drop in
> brightness beyond the balcony door), the insides of the building remain

> as dark as without any fill light... with fading_power 1, I get an at
> least halfway credible indoor illumination (the original light
> brightness is rgb 0.2), but then of course the light still illuminates

 be
> at least as bright like without fading, or even slightly brighter, as
> with fading, the light intensity starts at two times the nominal value
> (according to the POV manual)?

You'll probably always want to use fade_power 2 for realistic effect, 
and then adjust the fade_distance or color multiplier accordingly.

One thought I had was that you could possibly use light groups.  I'm not 

sure how your scene is structured, but you could possibly put the 
interior of the room in a light group, then put a bright enough light in 

the window to light the room as you want.  The light won't touch the 
exterior, and (optionally) the exterior light won't affect the interior.

You'd basically be setting up the lighting for the interior and exterior 

independently, but in the same scene.

-- 
-The Mildly Infamous Blue Herring

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High!

Blue Herring schrieb:

> One thought I had was that you could possibly use light groups.  I'm not 
> sure how your scene is structured, but you could possibly put the 
> interior of the room in a light group, then put a bright enough light in 
> the window to light the room as you want.  The light won't touch the 
> exterior, and (optionally) the exterior light won't affect the interior.

And the radiosity settings obviously still affect also the object(s)
inside the light_group (which is what I want to achieve)... Another
question: as my indoor room is a subtracted box (within difference
brackets), what will happen if I add objects into this room? Do I have
to duplicate the light_group to include also these objects?

Attached you see what I got now... as far as the overall brightness
level are concerned, I'm satisfied now; but currently, the brightness
distribution looks as if the room entirely is lit by artificial light,
regardless of the sunlight outside. Therefore, I would like to try a
wide-angled spotlight sitting in the middle of the door opening instead,
as the light should enter the room from outside the door!

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar

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Attachments:
Download '2008-08-05 my place on earth (altena version) wip, take 24 - street view,using light_groups, rgb 0.2, indoor brilliance' (20 KB) Download '2008-08-05 my place on earth (altena version) wip, take 22 - view into myapartment, using light_groups, rgb 0.2, brillia' (9 KB) Download '2008-08-05 my place on earth (altena version) wip, take 23 - inside my apartment,looking out, using light_groups, rgb 0.' (14 KB)

Preview of image '2008-08-05 my place on earth (altena version) wip, take 24 - street view,using light_groups, rgb 0.2, indoor brilliance'

Preview of image '2008-08-05 my place on earth (altena version) wip, take 22 - view into myapartment, using light_groups, rgb 0.2, brillia'

Preview of image '2008-08-05 my place on earth (altena version) wip, take 23 - inside my apartment,looking out, using light_groups, rgb 0.'

> And the radiosity settings obviously still affect also the object(s)
> inside the light_group (which is what I want to achieve)... Another
> question: as my indoor room is a subtracted box (within difference
> brackets), what will happen if I add objects into this room? Do I have
> to duplicate the light_group to include also these objects?
> 
> Attached you see what I got now... as far as the overall brightness
> level are concerned, I'm satisfied now; but currently, the brightness
> distribution looks as if the room entirely is lit by artificial light,
> regardless of the sunlight outside. Therefore, I would like to try a
> wide-angled spotlight sitting in the middle of the door opening instead
,
> as the light should enter the room from outside the door!

You'll need to add any objects you want illuminated by the lights in the 

group, to the group, but you shouldn't need to duplicate it.  You might 
want to place the light in the door, or slightly outside, and play with 
the fade_distance to change the distribution.  I don't know if it will 
ever look quite as good as the radiosity spilling in would however.

-- 
-The Mildly Infamous Blue Herring

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High!

Blue Herring schrieb:

> You'll need to add any objects you want illuminated by the lights in the 
> group, to the group, but you shouldn't need to duplicate it.  You might 
> want to place the light in the door, or slightly outside, and play with 
> the fade_distance to change the distribution.  I don't know if it will 
> ever look quite as good as the radiosity spilling in would however.
> 

But how should that work if the objects are in different levels of a CSG
  hierarchy - e. g. if the room is part of a difference, but the
furniture in the room belongs to a union several levels higher (or even
not at all to the same CSG object)?

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar

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> But how should that work if the objects are in different levels of a CS
G
>  hierarchy - e. g. if the room is part of a difference, but the
> furniture in the room belongs to a union several levels higher (or even

> not at all to the same CSG object)?

I guess you could make a duplicate light group, but I think it would be 
far better to restructure your objects so they can all be put into the 
same light group.  You could then add that group to a union or whatever 
else you need.

-- 
-The Mildly Infamous Blue Herring

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> High!
> 
>> Probably it will not be possible to achieve pleasing in-door and 
>> out-door illumination at the same time.
>>
>> Remember, our eyes have pupil that adapt to the surroundig light - 
>> PovRay does not! If it is bright outside and we are looking out of the 
>> window our pupils shrink. When we then look back into our room, they 
>> dilate. Our eyes are seeing at different "exposures", depending on the 
>> surrounding light.
>>
>> So in PovRay: if the light looks good on the outside (bright), it will 
>> seem dark inside. If it looks good inside (without tricks), it will be 
>> way too bright outside.
>>
>> If our eyes would not be able to adapt to different lighting we would 
>> not be able to see much at all. And PovRay, if used with one set of 
>> lightsources, is such an eye -unable to adapt to the lighting.
> 
> But I in fact have seen indoor scenes with credible outdoor illumination 
>  many times since I first entered this group back in 2000! How do those 
> PoV geeks that? Perhaps an ultra-bright sun, and thus correspondingly 
> very dark textures on all outside surfaces to get a "realistic" 
> brightness of surfaces? Perhaps I should try a sun with a color of, lets 
> say, rgb 10?
> 
> See you in Khyberspace!
> 
> Yadgar
Is there not something as an (automatic) diafragma for the camera in POV?

Wijnand

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=?ISO-8859-15?Q?J=F6rg_=27Yadgar=27_Bleimann?= <yaz### [at] gmxde> wrote:
> High!
..
..
..
> But I in fact have seen indoor scenes with credible outdoor illumination
>   many times since I first entered this group back in 2000! How do those
> PoV geeks that? Perhaps an ultra-bright sun, and thus correspondingly
> very dark textures on all outside surfaces to get a "realistic"
> brightness of surfaces? Perhaps I should try a sun with a color of, lets
> say, rgb 10?
>
> See you in Khyberspace!
>
> Yadgar


Three different things come to mind:  The first is a composite of 2 or more
renders with different light settings, the second is using HDRI in MegaPov, and
the last is something that occurred to me when you mentioned the rooms are
differenced out of a larger object.  Why not use the same pigment for indoor
and outdoor objects, but a different diffuse value?  You could have the outdoor
light much brighter to compensate, and the indoor diffuse would remain high so
that a greater amount of light would be reflected and the indoors would be
brighter.

-Reactor

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High!

Reactor schrieb:

> Three different things come to mind:  The first is a composite of 2 or more
> renders with different light settings,

Too cumbersome, as I plan, in the long run, to render animations of "My
Place in the World"...

> the second is using HDRI in MegaPov, 

I'm an orthodox PoV-Ray fundamentalist... (as you can tell from my beard!)
THOU SHALT NOT USE ANY OTHER RAYTRACER!!!

> and
> the last is something that occurred to me when you mentioned the rooms are
> differenced out of a larger object.  Why not use the same pigment for indoor
> and outdoor objects, but a different diffuse value?

I've tried that, but then the rooms in the building vis-a-vis drowned in
white...

Here is the closest I got towards what I aim for:

object
          {
            light_group
            {
              light_source
              {
                <0.37, GWG_FrKarl_Block238to252_Floor_yOffset + a *
GWG_FrKarl_Block238to252_Floor_Height + 1.27, 2.43>/f
                color rgb 0.25
                spotlight
                point_at <11.08,  GWG_FrKarl_Block238to252_Floor_yOffset
+ a * GWG_FrKarl_Block238to252_Floor_Height + 1.27, 2.43>/f
                radius 89.9999
                falloff 89.9999
                shadowless
              }
              object
              {
                GWG_FrKarl_Block238to252_Floor_Cutout
                scale 1/f
                translate <0.37, GWG_FrKarl_Block238to252_Floor_yOffset +
a * GWG_FrKarl_Block238to252_Floor_Height, 0.37>/f
              }
              global_lights on
            }

...still the distribution of brightness on the inside wall is very
uniform, such as the room was in fact lit by artificial light
overshining the indirect illumination, although I used global_lights
on... perhaps I should try a smaller radius for the spotlight? Or
introducing some fade_distance/fade_power?

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar

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Attachments:
Download '2008-08-05 my place on earth (altena version) wip, take 27 - inside my apartment,looking out, using light_groups with sp' (14 KB)

Preview of image '2008-08-05 my place on earth (altena version) wip, take 27 - inside my apartment,looking out, using light_groups with sp'

"Reactor" <rea### [at] hotmailcom> schreef in bericht 
news:web.48989ec3fa91c91bbf3475910@news.povray.org...
>
> Three different things come to mind:  The first is a composite of 2 or 
> more
> renders with different light settings,

Following that idea, why not try the technique developed by Tim Nikias (see: 
Prepared for Company, a couple of years ago (2005), which I used in the 
variation thereof in my ice age scene)? See: 
http://www.nolights.de/gallery/reviews/prep4company.html
Tim described his technique in one of the ng's here. It makes use of a glare 
macro (2003), which I do not see on his website. You might need to contact 
Tim if you want to try out this path.

Thomas

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> High!
> 
> Blue Herring schrieb:
> 
<Snippage>
> 
> But how should that work if the objects are in different levels of a CSG
>  hierarchy - e. g. if the room is part of a difference, but the
> furniture in the room belongs to a union several levels higher (or even
> not at all to the same CSG object)?
> 
> See you in Khyberspace!
> 
> Yadgar
> 

I find the question odd, I have done several projects of my own with 
only a single point light, and a multi story, many room building 
differenced in CSG.  As long as I remembered where the light was, the 
angle it would hit the windows, the light seemed to reasonably mimic 
what the eye might see.  From what I've seen, a "difference" behaves 
like a physical hollowing, any openings will allow light in, if it's 
directed in.

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