"Janet" <par### [at] attnet> schreef in bericht 
news:web.471f3fb88905805f330285230@news.povray.org...

> Yes, weeks! ...faint...
> Here's an image that uses the maps I posted. It took a while to render 
> with
> just one light source, no radiosity, max_trace_level 40.
> Average was 90 pps, and took about an hour.
>

Yes that looks already good! We still have some work to do to get the 
transition with the scalp right and maybe the hair tips. To the left, they 
look strange.
As an approximate indication: Without radiosity, my model renders fairly 
fast, about 20-25 minutes. Faster even with version 3.7 of course. With 
radiosity, I cancelled the render after about 3 hours and half the 
hair/beard done.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

"Jaime Vives Piqueres" <jai### [at] ignoranciaorg> schreef in bericht 
news:471f2884$1@news.povray.org...
> Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> As you said earlier, radiosity is a real issue. Imagine you have a scene 
>> with a dozen figures with nice hairdoes. It will take weeks to render!
>
>   Well, perhaps saving rad without the hair and then loading it with hair 
> will work...
>

Yes, I suppose that would be the way to do it. It is something that I shall 
test.

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Jaime Vives Piqueres nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2007/10/24 07:12:
> Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> As you said earlier, radiosity is a real issue. Imagine you have a 
>> scene with a dozen figures with nice hairdoes. It will take weeks to 
>> render!
> 
>   Well, perhaps saving rad without the hair and then loading it with 
> hair will work...
> 
> -- 
> Jaime
It's a possibility.
Another one, more realist, would be to use some simplified mockup hairs without 
transparancy, but with the same overall colouration. Something like some whide 
ribons or tubes.
Do the setup without the hairs. Then add the mockup hairs and collect the 
radiosity data. Lastly, do the final render with loaded radiosity data and 
quality hairs.

-- 
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
   A girl phoned me and said, "Come on over. There's nobody home." I Went over. 
Nobody was home!
	Rodney Dangerfield

Post a reply to this message

"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:
> Yes that looks already good! We still have some work to do to get the
> transition with the scalp right and maybe the hair tips. To the left, they
> look strange.

Yes, its definitely not right. :) I got curious and started examining it all
in Blender. I think there are just limitations in the way Poser exports the
hair. And part of the problem might be my settings for the hair in Poser
too.

So anyway, I imported the hair into Blender twice. Once right after the
Poser export and then again after making the ribbons with root material in
PoseRay.
In the image, the root material is dark brown, the hair ribbons are light
brown.
The Poser exported lines are the yellow lines with verts. By the way, there
is one hair line per vertex on the model it's grown from, but maybe you
already knew that.

So, in the image you can see the lines that Poser makes aren't always nice.
I circled one that loops around, and there are several that have those
loops. The loops make the ribbons not so nice looking too.

And then there is a gap, that's the red arrow. So you can see why the
ribbons don't always meet the scalp. Maybe if PoseRay had an option to add
an extra face at each end, and thus imbed the ribbon into the model a bit,
that would help.

Also, the ribbons twist around sometimes. I don't know enough about it but I
think there's vertex normal data in the OBJ that could cause the twisting -
I'll blame Poser, or my Poser hair settings again. :)

Janet

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
Download 'blendercapture.jpg' (37 KB)

Preview of image 'blendercapture.jpg'

That is good work you have done there, Janet!

I had not (yet) noticed those strange loops Poser is generating. That might 
be a bug if they consistently, although randomly,  appear with straight hair 
(like in your model). I cannot imagine that they have to do with the kinks 
setting.

The gap at the base of the ribbon can be filled I think,  if you scale down 
the skullcap a bit before growing the hair. Typically, I scaled it at 99% 
intuitively, without being aware of the gap.

The twists are something FlyerX mentioned in his answer above. He is 
experimenting with tubes now and that might be an excellent alternative.

Thomas


"Janet" <par### [at] attnet> schreef in bericht 
news:web.472017018905805f1557f29d0@news.povray.org...
> "Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:
>> Yes that looks already good! We still have some work to do to get the
>> transition with the scalp right and maybe the hair tips. To the left, 
>> they
>> look strange.
>
> Yes, its definitely not right. :) I got curious and started examining it 
> all
> in Blender. I think there are just limitations in the way Poser exports 
> the
> hair. And part of the problem might be my settings for the hair in Poser
> too.
>
> So anyway, I imported the hair into Blender twice. Once right after the
> Poser export and then again after making the ribbons with root material in
> PoseRay.
> In the image, the root material is dark brown, the hair ribbons are light
> brown.
> The Poser exported lines are the yellow lines with verts. By the way, 
> there
> is one hair line per vertex on the model it's grown from, but maybe you
> already knew that.
>
> So, in the image you can see the lines that Poser makes aren't always 
> nice.
> I circled one that loops around, and there are several that have those
> loops. The loops make the ribbons not so nice looking too.
>
> And then there is a gap, that's the red arrow. So you can see why the
> ribbons don't always meet the scalp. Maybe if PoseRay had an option to add
> an extra face at each end, and thus imbed the ribbon into the model a bit,
> that would help.
>
> Also, the ribbons twist around sometimes. I don't know enough about it but 
> I
> think there's vertex normal data in the OBJ that could cause the 
> twisting -
> I'll blame Poser, or my Poser hair settings again. :)
>
> Janet
>
>
>

Post a reply to this message

This is an ugly image. Never mind. There are a couple of puzzling features.

I used here Janet's hair maps, uv-scaled x500 along u, and on fairly wide 
ribbons (default Poseray values). Other values might give better results of 
course.

Puzzling feature 1: The background shines through the figure! Not only the 
hair but also the underlying skin. I had noticed this in a much earlier 
experiment but forgot about it.

Puzzling feature 2: the transparency at the hair tips casts shadows on the 
underlying skin.

Additional comment: I am still not sure about the usefulness of the ribbon 
roots. They are detached from the hair proper. Why not grow the hair 
directly from the line origin?

Rendered with POV-Ray 3.7 on dual core machine. Render took about 25 
minutes. No radiosity.


Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
Download 'PoserFiguretest.png' (253 KB)

Preview of image 'PoserFiguretest.png'

"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:
> The gap at the base of the ribbon can be filled I think,  if you scale down
> the skullcap a bit before growing the hair. Typically, I scaled it at 99%
> intuitively, without being aware of the gap.

That's a good idea.

> The twists are something FlyerX mentioned in his answer above. He is
> experimenting with tubes now and that might be an excellent alternative.
>
> Thomas

Oops, I guess I missed that part about the twists.

Post a reply to this message

"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:
> This is an ugly image. Never mind. There are a couple of puzzling features.
>
> I used here Janet's hair maps, uv-scaled x500 along u, and on fairly wide
> ribbons (default Poseray values). Other values might give better results of
> course.
>
> Puzzling feature 1: The background shines through the figure! Not only the
> hair but also the underlying skin. I had noticed this in a much earlier
> experiment but forgot about it.
>
> Puzzling feature 2: the transparency at the hair tips casts shadows on the
> underlying skin.

I'd be curious to see this rendered without any uv scaling.

> Additional comment: I am still not sure about the usefulness of the ribbon
> roots. They are detached from the hair proper. Why not grow the hair
> directly from the line origin?

I don't understand the point of the root material either. It just assigns
the first face a new material. The ribbons still start at the same spot
with or without it.

Janet

Post a reply to this message

"Janet" <par### [at] attnet> schreef in bericht 
news:web.472092d6c64416986697168f0@news.povray.org...
>
> I'd be curious to see this rendered without any uv scaling.

I had been carried away by my enthousiasm to manipulate the uv's :-)
Here is the same, without scaling and without ribbon roots. The textures 
looks indeed much better. However, the puzzling features remain.... :-(

>
> I don't understand the point of the root material either. It just assigns
> the first face a new material. The ribbons still start at the same spot
> with or without it.

Indeed. That is what I was also wondering about...

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
Download 'PoserFiguretest.png' (235 KB)

Preview of image 'PoserFiguretest.png'

The figure without hair transparency map renders correctly as far as the 
backgropund is concerned. So what goes wrong with the transparency map?

This is the material code as generated by Poseray (comments added by me):

#declare p_map10=pigment {image_map{jpeg "C:\....\Janet_hair.jpg" 
interpolate 2 transmit all 0 filter all 0} }
#declare p_map11=pigment {image_map{jpeg "C:\....\Janet_trans.jpg" 
interpolate 2 }}

#declare Hair__opaque=
texture{ pigment{ p_map10} //this is the hair map
        finish{specular 0.5019608 roughness 0.00286312 ambient rgb <0,0,0> 
diffuse 0.8  reflection{0 metallic} conserve_energy}}

#declare Hair_=
material{
texture{  pigment_pattern{ p_map11} //this is the transparency map
texture_map{[0 pigment{Clear}]
            [1 Hair__opaque]
           }}
}


Somebody with a smart idea??? :-)

Thomas

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
Download 'PoserFiguretest.png' (237 KB)

Preview of image 'PoserFiguretest.png'