"Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> schreef in bericht 
news:web.456ab90288cc0edaf1cb1e660@news.povray.org...
>
> I like the second one better. The broken ground in the first is too even 
> in
> depth and does not look real (?).

Yes, also my choice. I was interested in experimenting with different 
crackles and see what they would do.

> I think that you have captured the ambience of the painting but I would 
> like
> to see the greebles thingy higher in the sky. I also think that Kate 
> should
> have a stick in her hand to roll the hoop or "gird and cleet" as we call
> it.

In truth, I did not want to capture exactly the painting, only use it as a 
basis for my own ideas. So, there is a familiarity, but both works have 
further nothing to do with each other.
Personally, I prefer the greeble megastructures as they are. In my view, 
they are gigantic constructions on the ground but far away.
Yes the stick could be an addition. However, It would suggest to much a 
pre-planned play, while I want to suggest the girl to have come on the hoops 
by chance and starting to roll them for fun.

> One other thing I noticed, I did a blink comparison of the two images and
> there is a difference in the shadow of Kate's left leg.

Correct. That is due to some different radiosity settings. In between, I had 
started to change those.

Thanks for commenting!!

Thomas

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"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:
>
> In truth, I did not want to capture exactly the painting, only use it as a
> basis for my own ideas. So, there is a familiarity, but both works have
> further nothing to do with each other.
> Personally, I prefer the greeble megastructures as they are. In my view,
> they are gigantic constructions on the ground but far away.
> Yes the stick could be an addition. However, It would suggest to much a
> pre-planned play, while I want to suggest the girl to have come on the hoops
> by chance and starting to roll them for fun.
>

Maybe it is a cultural thing but a cleet is a necessity otherwise there is
no skill involved and that is essential in play. But like the other

Going back to the density of your images using 3.7. The mega-structures look
very different when I adjust the Gamma/Brightness/Contrast. It changes the

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"Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> schreef in bericht 
news:web.456af1ad88cc0edaf1cb1e660@news.povray.org...
> "Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:
>>
>> In truth, I did not want to capture exactly the painting, only use it as 
>> a
>> basis for my own ideas. So, there is a familiarity, but both works have
>> further nothing to do with each other.
>> Personally, I prefer the greeble megastructures as they are. In my view,
>> they are gigantic constructions on the ground but far away.
>> Yes the stick could be an addition. However, It would suggest to much a
>> pre-planned play, while I want to suggest the girl to have come on the 
>> hoops
>> by chance and starting to roll them for fun.
>>
>

> Maybe it is a cultural thing but a cleet is a necessity otherwise there is
> no skill involved and that is essential in play. But like the other
> comments, it's your image :-)

Yes...when you want specifically to play the gird and cleet game. I remember 
however, to have often played with hoops and old (bicycle) tyres without a 
cleet, just because they were in the right place on the right time. The fun 
was not less :-)  (not much)
But the real thing was something else, although it was not played much 
anymore in the 50's. Especially in France (where I grew up) I do not 
remember having seen them, except in old images typically from the beginning 
of the 20th century (little boys in sailor costumes...)

> Going back to the density of your images using 3.7. The mega-structures 
> look
> very different when I adjust the Gamma/Brightness/Contrast. It changes the
> whole atmosphere. I've only got M$ Photo Editor at work I particularly
> liked the image after applying a "chalk and charcoal" effect.

Hold on! These images were rendered with megapov, not 3.7! Here the 
atmosphere has to remain filtered. However, playing around with 
Gamma/Brightness/Contrast, or any other effect filter, will give you 
interesting things. I tried for instance a very low gamma, high contrast and 
low brightness. Gave a sort of moonlit scene.

Thomas

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"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:
> Yes...when you want specifically to play the gird and cleet game. I remember
> however, to have often played with hoops and old (bicycle) tyres without a
> cleet, just because they were in the right place on the right time. The fun
> was not less :-)  (not much)
> But the real thing was something else, although it was not played much
> anymore in the 50's. Especially in France (where I grew up) I do not
> remember having seen them, except in old images typically from the beginning
> of the 20th century (little boys in sailor costumes...)
>

made of metal with an eye and connected to the hoop by a small link. This
made it harder to run with it.

>
> Hold on! These images were rendered with megapov, not 3.7! Here the
> atmosphere has to remain filtered. However, playing around with
> Gamma/Brightness/Contrast, or any other effect filter, will give you
> interesting things. I tried for instance a very low gamma, high contrast and
> low brightness. Gave a sort of moonlit scene.
>

It is fun to change the settings

BTW congratulations for your IRTC placing

Stephen

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"Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> schreef in bericht 
news:web.456b030788cc0edaf1cb1e660@news.povray.org...
>>
> In the West coast of Scotland in the 50's we played with them. The cleet 
> was
> made of metal with an eye and connected to the hoop by a small link. This
> made it harder to run with it.

Interesting how cultural features (children's games after all are also 
cultural features) develop differently in different parts of the world. I 
was just thinking also about the variation used in subsahara Africa using 
tin boxes attached to a piece of wood. This whole process mimics, as it 
were, the process of natural evolution, with independent changes following 
geographic isolation. Very Darwinian :-)
>
>>
>> Hold on! These images were rendered with megapov, not 3.7! [....]
>>
> It looked similar to "Tek's sea revisited" so I assumed .
> It is fun to change the settings

What worries me is the 'aspect' of the images on your side. Here, they look 
normally well-contrasted in the fore- and middlegrounds, in opposition to 
3.7 renders that are uniformely washed-out under certain conditions..

>
> BTW congratulations for your IRTC placing

Thank you! I was quite content with the result :-)

Thomas

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"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:

> Interesting how cultural features (children's games after all are also
> cultural features)

Very much so IMO

>develop differently in different parts of the world. I
> was just thinking also about the variation used in subsahara Africa using
> tin boxes attached to a piece of wood.



> This whole process mimics, as it
> were, the process of natural evolution, with independent changes following
> geographic isolation. Very Darwinian :-)

Are you looking to start an argument because I thing it is an Intelligent
Design issue :-)
Seriously is it not more to do with the availability of local recourses?



http://www.fairlieburne.co.uk/99Appendix.htm


> What worries me is the 'aspect' of the images on your side. Here, they look
> normally well-contrasted in the fore- and middlegrounds, in opposition to
> 3.7 renders that are uniformely washed-out under certain conditions..
>
It is difficult to compare images remotely and I am using a Compaq S720


images look quite light. But then you have a low sun and my preferences are
probably different from yours.

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"Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> schreef in bericht 
news:web.456c072588cc0edaf1cb1e660@news.povray.org...
>
>>develop differently in different parts of the world. I
>> was just thinking also about the variation used in subsahara Africa using
>> tin boxes attached to a piece of wood.
>
> Don't know this, is it a running game?
From the little I have seen, looks like both running and just pushing the 
tin around, but there may be a deeper meaning behind it. Again, this is not 
from personnal experience but from photographs and documentaries where this 
appears sometimes.

>> This whole process mimics, as it
>> were, the process of natural evolution, with independent changes 
>> following
>> geographic isolation. Very Darwinian :-)
>
> Are you looking to start an argument because I thing it is an Intelligent
> Design issue :-)
Great! No. No argument here. The comparison in any case is wrong because of 
the very controversial status of social darwinism. I like to hustle things a 
bit sometimes. Not very scientific, I admit, but fun to do nonetheless.

> Seriously is it not more to do with the availability of local recourses?
> Here is a link to children's games from the 20's and 30's most were still
> played in the 50'
>
> http://www.fairlieburne.co.uk/99Appendix.htm

You are right. It has much to do with availability of local recourses.
Nice site! Yes, some of them seem to come back regularly, like  bools in 
particular.
Chuckies!!! We called those 'osselets' (small bones) and they resembled 
indeed little finger bones, but made of plastic (no good! too light) or 
metal (excellent!), four were white, one was red.
Tic Tac: Oh yes!
I think Hurlies and Bogies resemble that example I cited from subsahara 
Africa after all.
Beds: Was not really a girls game where I lived, and was played with 8 
squares in the series: 1-1-1-2-1-2.

> It is difficult to compare images remotely and I am using a Compaq S720
> monitor at work (it's so so). Fred's 'Sphere on checked plane' looks very
> dark and Skip Talbot's in 'Penguin Paradise' looks just right. Your latest
> images look quite light. But then you have a low sun and my preferences 
> are
> probably different from yours.

Ok then. Nothing to worry about. I see them the same way. Yes, mine are 
indeed a bit lighter and that's truly a personnal taste.

Thomas

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Man, you are relentless.  This has a great feeling.  Coincidently I just 
returned from a Thanksgiving visit to my family in Canada.  I returned 
on the train from Toronto to NY, crossing the border at Niagra Falls. 
Think hydro electric.  Think lots and lots of high tension towers like 
in your scene.  Think of me thinking about what great subjects they 
would make for a tracing.

Post a reply to this message

"Jim Charter" <jrc### [at] msncom> schreef in bericht 
news:456cff83$1@news.povray.org...
> Man, you are relentless.  This has a great feeling.  Coincidently I just 
> returned from a Thanksgiving visit to my family in Canada.  I returned on 
> the train from Toronto to NY, crossing the border at Niagra Falls. Think 
> hydro electric.  Think lots and lots of high tension towers like in your 
> scene.  Think of me thinking about what great subjects they would make for 
> a tracing.

Thank you indeed Jim!
Sometimes things are there just at the right time. And my growing collection 
of macros, includes, objects, is paying off. I can very well imagine your 
thoughts at Niagara Falls indeed. I am fascinated by industrial 
architecture, probably more in an archeological sense as I have a preference 
for the abandoned sites, and am always tempted to do something around them. 
Not often that I use those elements, though. The right mood and inspiration 
have to be present too. There are a number of pieces I would like to do 
around that theme. In fact, I have one for the current IRTC, but it seems 
not to come off the ground, so we'll see. There are other temptations 
around.

I recently saw some photographic work from the site of Tchernobyl. Man! How 
that reminded me of Tarkovski's Stalker! There is a source of inspiration 
there. Beware however not to get too depressed :-)  But there is a strange 
kind of beauty in those derelict scenes. Especially seeing how nature takes 
over again, as if Man had only been a passing storm.

Thomas

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"Thomas de Groot" <t.d### [at] internlDOTnet> wrote:

> > Are you looking to start an argument because I thing it is an Intelligent
> > Design issue :-)
> Great! No. No argument here. The comparison in any case is wrong because of
> the very controversial status of social darwinism. I like to hustle things a
> bit sometimes. Not very scientific, I admit, but fun to do nonetheless.

<g>



> Nice site! Yes, some of them seem to come back regularly, like  bools in
> particular.
> Chuckies!!! We called those 'osselets' (small bones) and they resembled
> indeed little finger bones, but made of plastic (no good! too light) or
> metal (excellent!), four were white, one was red.

On the West coast we called them Knuckles and I believe the Romans played
it.

> Tic Tac: Oh yes!

Tic Tac Toe, for us, and the winner was the one that stepped on the others
toe.

> I think Hurlies and Bogies resemble that example I cited from subsahara
> Africa after all.


http://manchesterhistory.net/LONGSIGHT/GAMES/games3.html

> Beds: Was not really a girls game where I lived, and was played with 8
> squares in the series: 1-1-1-2-1-2.

We call it hopscotch and it was 1-1-1-2-1-2-1 and the last 1 was drawn as a
semi-circle. Only small boys played it.



> Ok then. Nothing to worry about. I see them the same way. Yes, mine are
> indeed a bit lighter and that's truly a personnal taste.

Good :-)

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