My friend(s).

There is only one way to react to your help: with a big Thanks! I could 
never say or think anything else. I think about the POV-Ray community that 
it is very lucky to have so many openminded and creative spirits shaping 
this community. It seems, a great program can influence which kind of 
persons are making the related community.

I am very happy and thankful for your help. And I appreciate it. And 
enthusiast you all to keep the fire burning! The POV-Ray community has the 
right spirit!

Best greetings,

Sven




"Larry Hudson" <org### [at] yahoocom> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
news:448785ec$1@news.povray.org...
> I hope you take this as I mean it -- to be helpful not critical.  (Even 
> though I have already described myself as a curmudgeon.)   ;-)

Post a reply to this message

I live in the capital, Kingston. And there, in the district New Kingston, 
which is the business district. I live and work from my home. Working for 
that government, but also for companies, NGOs and persons.

But don't think, Jamaica is nice. It is not, actually. It is too corrupt, 
prices are therefore very high and standards low, and criminals truly all 
over. Take a bus and you have a 33%-chance to be robbed out on that route. 
Not much infrastructure there, no social structure at all.

The only nice things there are the girls, the nature and the water/beaches. 
Hmm, and the sun and the palms. Scuba-diving there is also nice, as well as 
renting a yacht for cruising some days and nights between the nearby small 
islands (Lime Cay, 3 miles off Port Royal).

Sugar and salt. Probably more salt, still.

The attached photo is NOT Jamaica, but we have very similar views. It is a 
shame that I even have no scenic picture on my computer...
Who knows? Maybe someone makes scenic renders of the Caribbean, such as this 
photo. Creating own lagoons and white palm beaches...

Best greetings,

Sven






"Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
news:web.4487d01adf8d5bedc6b359800@news.povray.org...
> What parish? It was in Jamaica I found Pov-Ray. I saw the light or didn't.
> You understand me?
>
> Stephen
>

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
Download 'Lost in Paradise.jpg' (129 KB)

Preview of image 'Lost in Paradise.jpg'

"Sven Littkowski" <sve### [at] jamaica-focuscom> wrote:
> I live in the capital, Kingston. And there, in the district New Kingston,
> which is the business district. I live and work from my home. Working for
> that government, but also for companies, NGOs and persons.
>
> But don't think, Jamaica is nice. It is not, actually. It is too corrupt,
> prices are therefore very high and standards low, and criminals truly all
> over. Take a bus and you have a 33%-chance to be robbed out on that route.
> Not much infrastructure there, no social structure at all.
>
> The only nice things there are the girls, the nature and the water/beaches.
> Hmm, and the sun and the palms. Scuba-diving there is also nice, as well as
> renting a yacht for cruising some days and nights between the nearby small
> islands (Lime Cay, 3 miles off Port Royal).
>
> Sugar and salt. Probably more salt, still.
>
> The attached photo is NOT Jamaica, but we have very similar views. It is a
> shame that I even have no scenic picture on my computer...
> Who knows? Maybe someone makes scenic renders of the Caribbean, such as this
> photo. Creating own lagoons and white palm beaches...
>

I worked in Kingston for D&G 98 to 99. I lived in a hotel in uptown Kingston
then moved to a gated estate in Manor Park. Buses are not for Europeans
although I met a Dutch woman who was bussing it round the island on her
days off. I had a car and was treated like a minor deity and had a good
time. If you can get into the countryside the people there are much

exist to rip off tourists. But who can blame them when their beaches are

where the locals go. There are lots of ok things to do.

PS I hate "Soon come"

Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Greetings, Stephen!

Seems I am walking in your footprints! Sure, yes, of course I am often at 
Hellshire Beach. Well, ariound that beach. Just a few walking minutes away 
(around 30 mins), and located above HB, is another very lonely and quiet 
beach. Low but interesting vegetation, not many persons (=not many criminals 
as well), uncommercial and paradisic! And you can see there still animals 
and plants under water!

I know D&G, but I don't usually drink beer (Red Stripe) or others of their 
products. I actually never drink alcohol, he he! Just water, sodas and 
juices. I think, D&G is in those, as well. Manor Park? Yes, sure I know it!

I attach a Google Earth image about my approximate location. Insiders will 
know.

Busses, Ripping off Tourists: all true.

You was in 98/99 there. I am since 1999 there. By the way, right now - for 
home vacation - I am in Germany. But be back soon in Jamaica.

Greetings,

Sven





"Stephen" <mcavoys_AT_aolDOT.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
news:web.4487e74fdf8d5bedc6b359800@news.povray.org...
> I worked in Kingston for D&G 98 to 99. I lived in a hotel in uptown 
> Kingston
> then moved to a gated estate in Manor Park. Buses are not for Europeans
> although I met a Dutch woman who was bussing it round the island on her
> days off. I had a car and was treated like a minor deity and had a good
> time. If you can get into the countryside the people there are much
> different but stay away from the likes of Mo'bay and Negril. They just
> exist to rip off tourists. But who can blame them when their beaches are
> reserved for "white men". Have you been to Hellshire beach near Kingston?
> where the locals go. There are lots of ok things to do.

Post a reply to this message

Attachments:
Download '_9.jpg' (53 KB)

Preview of image '_9.jpg'

"Sven Littkowski" <sve### [at] jamaica-focuscom> wrote:
> I live in the capital, Kingston. And there, in the district New Kingston,
> which is the business district. I live and work from my home. Working for
> that government, but also for companies, NGOs and persons.
>
> But don't think, Jamaica is nice. It is not, actually. It is too corrupt,
> prices are therefore very high and standards low, and criminals truly all
> over. Take a bus and you have a 33%-chance to be robbed out on that route.
> Not much infrastructure there, no social structure at all.

I've never heard a good word about Kingston; only that it's an impoverished
third world slum.  But how is the rest of the island?  I've heard good
about Montego Bay, but i don't know what the rural areas are like.

> The attached photo is NOT Jamaica, but we have very similar views. It is a
> shame that I even have no scenic picture on my computer...
> Who knows? Maybe someone makes scenic renders of the Caribbean, such as this
> photo. Creating own lagoons and white palm beaches...

I live in the Virgin Islands.  I'd started working on a beach study, but i
haven't invested the time to create finished scenes.  I'd gotten as far as
sand, sea water, rocks, and reflective beach balls, but no vegetation.

When i was a child, i spent a summer in Heidelberg, (West) Germany.  My
uncle was in the US Army, and was stationed there.  I went there with
dreams of learning German, optimistic because of its common roots with
English.  Unfortunately, my cousin felt he had to shelter me from "the
Germans," and didn't learn anything.  Years later i stopped in my tracks as
the thought came to me, "Hey, wait a minute!  I was in GERMANY.  Shouldn't i
have just told my cousin, 'Let's keep going!  I'm SUPPOSED to meet
Germans'?"  (I know, my reflexes are kind of slow.)

Post a reply to this message

Dear Ricky,

sometimes I feel very, very ashamed about some of my fellow Germans. We have 
some very friendly Germans, we have a wide majority of somehow neutral 
Germans, but we also have this - even rising - minority of really mentally 
underprivileged brainsick and violent right-wing Germans...

When you say that your cousing sheltered you, that might been maybe to your 
intellectual disadvantage but still, in the same time, to your physical 
advantage. Not sure, though. But look to the media reports on Germany. We 
have so many more attacks and attempts to kill colored humans since some 
months, and even worser, the justice system tends to let go right-wing 
criminals back into freedom or just judging minimum punishments while in the 
same time to increase strength of punishments against left-wing criminals 
and counter demonstrants against the pro-right-wing demonstrants. And many 
politicians even declare loudly that Germany has no fascists (upfront to the 
football worldmastership). I believe, there are not vew pro-right persons 
sitting in politics and justice. That scares me. They have the loud idiots 
on the roads to have the people looking to, while silently gaining more 
persons into the key positions.

That's one of the reasons I moved out of Germany. Oh, by the way, here is an 
interesting link:
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,grossbild-631653-417616,00.html

Kingston is - indeed - in wide parts a slum. Caused by the decreasing social 
network, the rising poorness and incompetent political decisions. I think I 
can relatively good compare with many other countries (was in many for a 
long time).

The countryside is still kind of native. Many honest fellows there. Very 
friendly, and not minding to give shelter, accomodation, to even a stranger 
despite of their poorness. They embrace strangers as well as their own 
friends. That is the kind of humanity I look up to.

But many islanders are also very religious. And I really mean: very, very, 
very religious. Some of those religious families even take their children 
out of school just because they don't want their children to learn about 
science and evolution, can someone imagine that...
I am a fighter against religious intolerance. I am also an atheist who can 
be, therefore, tolerant to each person, independent by religion (Buddhism, 
Sikh, Jews, Moslems, Hindus, Christians, Shintoism, and all the other ones).

It would have been good, to be multi-lingual. That also would have opened 
additional business opportunities. But it is never too late, the options are 
even still there: maybe there are some Germans nearby where you live. Or 
some German communities who would like to make friends. That requires some 
research on the Net. There are always some clubs or communities. I am just 
not sure about how close or not close. In addition, language schools, of 
course. It really might pay, later on. There are many international 
companies. But you are right, it is a pity you couldn't achieve these goals 
during your German time. Sorry. But the fault is on our German side, I 
think. Your cousin acted like a caring family member.

Of which descendence are you? When I was still living in Berlin, i was a 
part of "Savannah United e.V.", an African cultural organization group. 
Organizing African festivals, and so. I am a native German (but one of the 
good ones, I hope).   ;-)

Ricky, I would be absolutely eager to see, as soon as anyhow possible, your 
first tropical island scenic renders! I like that island beach photo a lot 
which I posted previously, now it is up to the landscape artists amongst us 
to take the fire and come with a long series of beautiful tropical paradisic 
scenic renders. I want to see quiet hidden lagoons, long lonely beaches just 
escorted by palms hanging over the clear turkey water, I want to see 
colorful tropical blossoms, lianes, white sands, blue sky and all the other 
scenic beauties tropical islands just have. (And that's another reason why I 
am in the Caribbean.)

Best greetings,

Sven





"Cousin Ricky" <ric### [at] yahoocom> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
news:web.4488adb8df8d5bed43a5e2560@news.povray.org...
> I've never heard a good word about Kingston; only that it's an 
> impoverished
> third world slum.  But how is the rest of the island?  I've heard good
> about Montego Bay, but i don't know what the rural areas are like.
>
> I live in the Virgin Islands.  I'd started working on a beach study, but i
> haven't invested the time to create finished scenes.  I'd gotten as far as
> sand, sea water, rocks, and reflective beach balls, but no vegetation.
>
> When i was a child, i spent a summer in Heidelberg, (West) Germany.  My
> uncle was in the US Army, and was stationed there.  I went there with
> dreams of learning German, optimistic because of its common roots with
> English.  Unfortunately, my cousin felt he had to shelter me from "the
> Germans," and didn't learn anything.  Years later i stopped in my tracks 
> as
> the thought came to me, "Hey, wait a minute!  I was in GERMANY.  Shouldn't 
> i
> have just told my cousin, 'Let's keep going!  I'm SUPPOSED to meet
> Germans'?"  (I know, my reflexes are kind of slow.)
>
>

Post a reply to this message

"Sven Littkowski" <sve### [at] jamaica-focuscom> wrote:
> And many
> politicians even declare loudly that Germany has no fascists (upfront to the
> football worldmastership).

Very dangerous attitude.  Indonesia once declared that they had no Al Qaeda
cells.  Then one of their non-existent Al Qaeda cells blew up a nightclub
in Bali.

> But many islanders are also very religious. And I really mean: very, very,
> very religious. Some of those religious families even take their children
> out of school just because they don't want their children to learn about
> science and evolution, can someone imagine that...

Excessive religious devotion is common to most of the western hemisphere.
There's even a home schooling industry in the states specifically for
parents who would rather their children learn fairy tales instead of
science.  The irony is that evolution isn't really taught in most school
districts; political pressure from Christian fundamentalists has been so
heavy that biology curricula have been gutted of real substance.  What most
people "know" about evolution is not at all what science claims.

And it doesn't stop there.  There's a very strong movement to force
_taxpayer supported_ public schools to teach their religion (disguised as
"creation science" or "intelligent design") to all schoolchildren.

> I am a fighter against religious intolerance. I am also an atheist who can
> be, therefore, tolerant to each person, independent by religion (Buddhism,
> Sikh, Jews, Moslems, Hindus, Christians, Shintoism, and all the other ones).

I'm also an athiest, and i'm tolerant of anyone who's tolerant of me.  But
contrary to their own delusions (and their own constitution), religious
intolerance is rampant in the USA.  I just got an e-mail from my
Pentacostalist sister, urging me to write my senator to vote for a
constitutional amendment to preserve Christians' "right" to deny other
people their rights.  (They didn't phrase it that way, of course.)  Mind
you, _nobody_ is denying Christians their right to practice their religion,
but a very vocal minority of Christians feels threatened by people who don't
follow their rules.  The courts have been steadily hacking away at
Christians' special privileges, and the fundamentalists interpret that as
"persecution."

I don't know how science education and religious tolerance are in Latin
America and most of the Caribbean, but i know that religion is ubiquitous
in this part of the world.

> Of which descendence are you? When I was still living in Berlin, i was a
> part of "Savannah United e.V.", an African cultural organization group.
> Organizing African festivals, and so. I am a native German (but one of the
> good ones, I hope).   ;-)

My ancestors were brought here chained in the cargo holds of slave ships.  I
don't know which parts of Africa they were from.  This is true of most
blacks in the Americas.

Post a reply to this message

Ricky, you speak me in all points out of my soul! Might even be, that 
fundamentalist USA has that big issue with Al Qaeda because both are the 
same fundamentalistic. Religious persons, the fundamentalist ones, are very 
often extremely intolerant, and consider themselve of course as more human 
than anyone else not like them, so those others of course shouldn't live 
with the same human rights...

What you write about the education in the USA, shocks me. At the end, they 
destroy their own future. Without enough scientifical new generations, they 
soon will technnologically be behind other nations. And then, you will see, 
they will cry out and consider those advanced other nations as dangerous for 
the USA, even their previous friend nations.

And then, attempts of political and (decreasing) economical influence, and 
then military powers, will be used to keep the other nations down as well. 
"Missionars" will be sent out, to influence the societies othe those other 
nations from within. Like in all times since ancient times (Rome sent 
missionaries into Germania to break their resistance from within), they are 
used to break the backbone of the other nations.

I am a so-called "white" man (actually: kind of peach), but I feel big shame 
about the last centuries. Imagine, those slave society considered themselve 
as a Christian society. And churches also devided between black (actually: 
many shades of brown) and white. Christianity supported churches for the 
black people, and churches for the white people. Watta shame. But also what 
a truth about the phenomena called "religion" (mind control).

The entire slave phenomenum shows what happens if some nations have an 
advanced technical knowledge but not yet the matching wisdom (philosophical) 
level required to handle their technical abilities. But to be honest, even 
today, I believe, we are still the same. The entire mankind. We can build 
interesting things, but so much of our possibilities and resources we put in 
things which can kill us humans. They support oil but ignore sunlight, wind 
and renewable energy resources. Uhh! Yeah, it is so easy for some, to keep 
the focus of so many away from the real things. Yeah, we humans are truly 
"intelligent"...

Seems we are really of one opinion.  am happy to know that I am not the only 
person on this planet who feels not very good with so many things my eyes 
and ears tell me.

If you give me the e-mail address of that Pentacostalist sister of yours, I 
would love a lot to write her a letter asking for support, to vote for a
constitutional amendment to preserve Buddhists, Hindis, Sikhs, Moslems, Jews 
(etc.) "right" to defend other religions persons to deny their rights. Of 
course, I would not mention you at all. And that letter would have a formal 
attitude like it would be a letter meant like that. I sometimes don't know 
how those persons can be teached with their own words and behaviours. Maybe 
the way to just replace the name of the religion (Christian becomes Hindu), 
and you will see how LOUD these Christians suddenly will cry out on their 
own words now used against them...     ;-)

To state it clearly: I would do that with every intolerant person, of each 
religion.

Best greetings,

Sven



"Cousin Ricky" <ric### [at] yahoocom> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
news:web.4489bec1df8d5bed43a5e2560@news.povray.org...
> "Sven Littkowski" <sve### [at] jamaica-focuscom> wrote:
>> And many
>> politicians even declare loudly that Germany has no fascists (upfront to 
>> the
>> football worldmastership).
>
> Very dangerous attitude.  Indonesia once declared that they had no Al 
> Qaeda
> cells.  Then one of their non-existent Al Qaeda cells blew up a nightclub
> in Bali.
>
>> But many islanders are also very religious. And I really mean: very, 
>> very,
>> very religious. Some of those religious families even take their children
>> out of school just because they don't want their children to learn about
>> science and evolution, can someone imagine that...
>
> Excessive religious devotion is common to most of the western hemisphere.
> There's even a home schooling industry in the states specifically for
> parents who would rather their children learn fairy tales instead of
> science.  The irony is that evolution isn't really taught in most school
> districts; political pressure from Christian fundamentalists has been so
> heavy that biology curricula have been gutted of real substance.  What 
> most
> people "know" about evolution is not at all what science claims.
>
> And it doesn't stop there.  There's a very strong movement to force
> _taxpayer supported_ public schools to teach their religion (disguised as
> "creation science" or "intelligent design") to all schoolchildren.
>
>> I am a fighter against religious intolerance. I am also an atheist who 
>> can
>> be, therefore, tolerant to each person, independent by religion 
>> (Buddhism,
>> Sikh, Jews, Moslems, Hindus, Christians, Shintoism, and all the other 
>> ones).
>
> I'm also an athiest, and i'm tolerant of anyone who's tolerant of me.  But
> contrary to their own delusions (and their own constitution), religious
> intolerance is rampant in the USA.  I just got an e-mail from my
> Pentacostalist sister, urging me to write my senator to vote for a
> constitutional amendment to preserve Christians' "right" to deny other
> people their rights.  (They didn't phrase it that way, of course.)  Mind
> you, _nobody_ is denying Christians their right to practice their 
> religion,
> but a very vocal minority of Christians feels threatened by people who 
> don't
> follow their rules.  The courts have been steadily hacking away at
> Christians' special privileges, and the fundamentalists interpret that as
> "persecution."
>
> I don't know how science education and religious tolerance are in Latin
> America and most of the Caribbean, but i know that religion is ubiquitous
> in this part of the world.
>
>> Of which descendence are you? When I was still living in Berlin, i was a
>> part of "Savannah United e.V.", an African cultural organization group.
>> Organizing African festivals, and so. I am a native German (but one of 
>> the
>> good ones, I hope).   ;-)
>
> My ancestors were brought here chained in the cargo holds of slave ships. 
> I
> don't know which parts of Africa they were from.  This is true of most
> blacks in the Americas.
>
>
>

Post a reply to this message

Sven, Ricky, I'm a little late to this discussion but I wanted to say I'm
tending to agree with you guys....

I'm from the USA and I'm very sad to see where I think this country is
going.   One of the things I have the least tolerance for is intolerance.
It baffles me why people care about how other people live their lives, so
much so that they vote for controls and reduce freedoms, or restrict
certain rights to be beneficial only to majority groups and not others.
It's the tyrany of the majority syndrome.

The way I see it, freedom and democracy are two very distinct things.  (A)
In a nation that values "liberty," the idea should be that personal freedom
should extend up to, but not go beyond the point of impinging on others'
rights.   (B) In a nation that values "separation-of-church-and-state", the
government should be absolutely indifferent to religion-based morals. The
government also has no duty to teach religion. (C) And still, in a country
which is supposed to be a democracy, people need to have a say over the law
of the land...   But to what end?  What is the scope?  What protects
minority groups from majority demands?

The emediete question is what should the government do if a majority votes
to impose religion-based morals and teachings? And the question behind this
question is what has precidence, the "will-of-the-people," or "liberty."   I
think this is where countries need to decide that the principle stated in
sentence (A) should apply to the voting population:  you can't vote to
restrict rights without showing that rights conflict with other rights
somehow. (Land use/planning is a good example of how rights can conflict in
a way that I think is vote-able.) Anyhow, majority religion under this
principle, cannot be a reason to change laws etc.


Hmm, are we still talking about raytracing? :)   Oh well, communities get to
talk about other stuff too...

Charles

PS, back to the origin of this thread,   POVMAN  I like your sheep, and on
this one I like the apparent mutual envy of the sheep.  :-)

Post a reply to this message

Among other things, Charles C saw fit to write:

> The emediete question is what should the government do if a majority votes
> to impose religion-based morals and teachings? And the question behind
> this
> question is what has precidence, the "will-of-the-people," or "liberty."  
> I think this is where countries need to decide that the principle stated
> in
> sentence (A) should apply to the voting population:  you can't vote to
> restrict rights without showing that rights conflict with other rights
> somehow. (Land use/planning is a good example of how rights can conflict
> in a way that I think is vote-able.) Anyhow, majority religion under this
> principle, cannot be a reason to change laws etc.

In my country (Spain) I believe it's possible to promote a law change by
popular demand, except in "foreign affairs" and economics.

I wholeheartedly agree with you about tolerance, personal freedom and
tyranny of majority. I recently heard that democracy is not about doing

the minorities.

However there, is something that worries me. Take this discussion about
science/religion in the school. I am strongly convinced that science is
"the good way", that people should know what science has to say, that the
world would be a better place if everyone had a firm scientific education,
that our children should be taught to think critically... But I have to
accept there are people who think the opposite, that (their particular
flavour of) religion is the only acceptable way, that people should act
according to religious teachings, that the world would be a better place if
everyone lead a pious life, that our children should be taught to interpret
the scriptures... Who am I to say that my view is better than theirs? It's
certainly better for me, but why has the society have to be as I want it
and not as they want it? It's not only about personal freedom, it's also
about the way we want our societies to go.

The same can be said about many other subjects like taxes, public health,
research, etc. Sometimes you have conflicting views, both (or all) of them
equally valid for their supporters, who also believe they're the best
choice for everyone's wellbeing. A decision by the "brute force" of voting
may not be the fairest one, but an agreement might be next to impossible
(and the "most tolerant" of the views is likely to be the one to give up
earlier). Sometimes one would wish there was a "benevolent dictator"
somewhere...

-- 
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0}}}box{z-y-.1.1+z}box{-.1.1+x}box{.1z-.1}pigment{rgb<.8.2,1>}}//Jellby

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