I know many don't go for the whole idea of warez, I'm guilty of trying
out a Ad banner remover of a free Ad-based (unnamed here. oh-oh. see?
hiding already...) ISP myself (and that's about the only thing I've ever
touched, honest). Btw, it was total crap (pardon me) to use it, slow and
buggy. I'm not sure what this has to do with freeware at all anyway.
Especially is the fact that most people that use programs for art or
such would be appalled by the illegal use of programs they buy (for more
reasons than the money factor).
Even a penniless (well, maybe not penniless of course) starving artist
is on the road to criminal behavior if pirating software for the sake of
using a 3D renderer. If there's POV-Ray to use, the person is either
greedy or insanely addicted to 3D modeling (aren't we all though).
In other words, take the Chinese CD pirating in the news a while back,
they were in it for money, far different thing. And someone trying
desperately to do 3D renders for the reason of making images is not
nearly the same thing. I think this always remains the distinction, yet
I have to say the paths are both the same.
You mention "small" warez things like cracked versions of 3DS. Can't see
that as being a small thing myself.


Thomas Lake wrote:
> 
> I was thinking of starting up a small poll on my web site, but I was
> wondering what people in the POV community especially think about this
> subject, Pov-Ray being freeway and all. The poll is: What do you think
> about Warez software? For those that don't know Warez= pirated software.
> I'm not talking about large scale sale a distribution but small scale
> pirating, things like cracked versions of 3D Studio and such. Just
> curious as to what the Pov community thinks. :-)

-- 
 omniVERSE: beyond the universe
  http://members.aol.com/inversez/homepage.htm
 mailto:inv### [at] aolcom?Subject=PoV-News

Post a reply to this message

Bob Hughes wrote:

> I know many don't go for the whole idea of warez, I'm guilty of trying
> out a Ad banner remover of a free Ad-based (unnamed here. oh-oh. see?
> hiding already...) ISP myself (and that's about the only thing I've ever
> touched, honest). Btw, it was total crap (pardon me) to use it, slow and
> buggy. I'm not sure what this has to do with freeware at all anyway.
> Especially is the fact that most people that use programs for art or
> such would be appalled by the illegal use of programs they buy (for more
> reasons than the money factor).
> Even a penniless (well, maybe not penniless of course) starving artist
> is on the road to criminal behavior if pirating software for the sake of
> using a 3D renderer. If there's POV-Ray to use, the person is either
> greedy or insanely addicted to 3D modeling (aren't we all though).
> In other words, take the Chinese CD pirating in the news a while back,
> they were in it for money, far different thing. And someone trying
> desperately to do 3D renders for the reason of making images is not
> nearly the same thing. I think this always remains the distinction, yet
> I have to say the paths are both the same.
> You mention "small" warez things like cracked versions of 3DS. Can't see
> that as being a small thing myself.

I meant the distinction between large scale pirating operations for money and
people cracking programs on their home pc.

>
>
> Thomas Lake wrote:
> >
> > I was thinking of starting up a small poll on my web site, but I was
> > wondering what people in the POV community especially think about this
> > subject, Pov-Ray being freeway and all. The poll is: What do you think
> > about Warez software? For those that don't know Warez= pirated software.
> > I'm not talking about large scale sale a distribution but small scale
> > pirating, things like cracked versions of 3D Studio and such. Just
> > curious as to what the Pov community thinks. :-)
>
> --
>  omniVERSE: beyond the universe
>   http://members.aol.com/inversez/homepage.htm
>  mailto:inv### [at] aolcom?Subject=PoV-News

Post a reply to this message

Thomas Lake wrote in message <37199110.D024DB48@home.com>...
>Bob Hughes wrote:
>
[snip]
>> You mention "small" warez things like cracked versions of 3DS. Can't see
>> that as being a small thing myself.
>
>I meant the distinction between large scale pirating operations for money
and
>people cracking programs on their home pc.


The problem with warez ("people cracking programs on their home pc") is not
that those people are cracking the software - if it was for their own use!
Usually they don't "crack-to-use" anyway, but just to crack. They are not
really interested in actually using the cracked software much anyway - which
means: They wouldn't have bought the software anyway - no harm done!

At the first view!

But what *really* pisses me off is, that those "home pc" crackers (which you
define as "small") then *publish* the software on warez-sites, making the
"cracked-for-fun-and-the-determintation-to-show-that-it-can-be-done"
software available to unscrupulous users, like 3D artists without a
conscience (hopefully there are only a few) that would otherwise actually
have bought the product because they really need and use it, or even to
those "we-are-in-it-for-the-money" software pirates that you say are bad.

Do you really think that those pirates do their own cracks? Why should they?
There are enough cracks around done by those oh-so-innocent "home-pc"
crackers!

Johannes.

Post a reply to this message

Scott McDonald wrote in message <37193873.8F4B0122@metrolink.com>...
>Lance Birch wrote:
>>
>> Hmm, let me think... It's illegal?
>>
>> Personally I hate people that pirate MAX... mainly because it raises the
>> price for me... and also because I'm sick of seeing terrible work made
with
>
>naw, thats a convenient excuse for Autodesk to charge a ridiculous
>amount of money for it.
[snip]

Crap!

This is one of the dumbest but unfortunately most used arguments in the
discussion about pirate copies.

And it just isn't true!

Mark well, I don't want to defend the price of MAX here in particular (I am
certain that part of the money you pay goes into the "image" and the "name"
of the product, just as SGI workstations or Apple Computers [or many other
high-tech prodcuts from elite-brands - anyone bought a pair of Nike shoes
lateley? See, you paid for the image too!] are not really worth the money
they cost - if you simply add up the cost for the hardware components.

The point I want to make is, that software is not expensive because software
firms are asking ridiculous prices which they only can get away with because
there is no alternative. In reality, software is so expensive because it
simply *is* very expensive to develop.
Especially such large projects as MAX. I would guess (totally without
underlying facts, but close to the truth I guess) that there easily went
several centuries of man-work into the development of MAX. (A small team of
25 working for 4 years would already add up to one century!)
And the people developing the software are not some underpaid and exploited
third-world "slaves" but highly educated professionals that, justily, demand
good money for good work. Add this together with the costs for promotion
etc., and you will soon see why a software that is sold in such
(comparativly) small numbers as MAX will always cost a *lot*.

And Lance is right:

Kinetix is putting effort (and money!) into developing protection (dongles
etc.) which they wouldn't need in a perfect world. It is clear that at the
end the customer pays for this added costs.
This doesn't even count the lost revenues from pirated software that was not
sold (and therefor did not add to the total income made with the product).


Johannes.

Post a reply to this message

THANKYOU!!!  Finally SOMEONE understands what I've been trying to convince
everyone of for soooooo long!!!

--
Lance.


---
For the latest 3D Studio MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone
For a totally different experience, visit my Chroma Key Website:
Colorblind - http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/parallax/359/colorblind

Johannes Hubert wrote in message <371999e7.0@news.povray.org>...
>Scott McDonald wrote in message <37193873.8F4B0122@metrolink.com>...
>>Lance Birch wrote:
>>>
>>> Hmm, let me think... It's illegal?
>>>
>>> Personally I hate people that pirate MAX... mainly because it raises the
>>> price for me... and also because I'm sick of seeing terrible work made
>with
>>
>>naw, thats a convenient excuse for Autodesk to charge a ridiculous
>>amount of money for it.
>[snip]
>
>Crap!
>
>This is one of the dumbest but unfortunately most used arguments in the
>discussion about pirate copies.
>
>And it just isn't true!

Post a reply to this message

Johannes Hubert wrote:
> software available to unscrupulous users, like 3D artists without a
> conscience (hopefully there are only a few) that would otherwise actually
> have bought the product because they really need and use it, or even to

So it's okay if they wouldn't have otherwise been able to buy it?
(Couldn't afford it) It is less irritating to me if a computer user who
couldn't afford to buy a piece of software has a copy illegally than a
wealthy person who just wants to save him/herself a quick buck.

Personally I could be guilty of the above paragraph, I've lost count of
the number of licences of Windows I have, and the number of machines
it's running on. On this note, wasn't it the belgium gov't who had to
give Microsoft a whole lot of money for unlicensed software they were
running?

	Graham.

Post a reply to this message

Johannes Hubert wrote:

> Thomas Lake wrote in message <37199110.D024DB48@home.com>...
> >Bob Hughes wrote:
> >
> [snip]
> >> You mention "small" warez things like cracked versions of 3DS. Can't see
> >> that as being a small thing myself.
> >
> >I meant the distinction between large scale pirating operations for money
> and
> >people cracking programs on their home pc.
>
> The problem with warez ("people cracking programs on their home pc") is not
> that those people are cracking the software - if it was for their own use!
> Usually they don't "crack-to-use" anyway, but just to crack. They are not
> really interested in actually using the cracked software much anyway - which
> means: They wouldn't have bought the software anyway - no harm done!
>
> At the first view!
>
> But what *really* pisses me off is, that those "home pc" crackers (which you
> define as "small") then *publish* the software on warez-sites, making the
> "cracked-for-fun-and-the-determintation-to-show-that-it-can-be-done"
> software available to unscrupulous users, like 3D artists without a
> conscience (hopefully there are only a few) that would otherwise actually
> have bought the product because they really need and use it, or even to
> those "we-are-in-it-for-the-money" software pirates that you say are bad.
>
> Do you really think that those pirates do their own cracks? Why should they?
> There are enough cracks around done by those oh-so-innocent "home-pc"
> crackers!

Hay ok sorry didn't mean to get anyone angry.

>
>
> Johannes.

Post a reply to this message

There will always be warez software.  If there is copy protection
someone will want to find a way to crack it.  Like with Playstation
games, and finding out how to make the Celeron SMP capable.  I used to
like just trying to find a working copy of programs.  It was all in the
search.  When I obtained a working program I just kept it as a trophy,
until I ran out of diskspace.  Now I search for good freeware programs. 
(Which is harder since there is so much out there.) 

Thomas Lake wrote:
> 
> I was thinking of starting up a small poll on my web site, but I was
> wondering what people in the POV community especially think about this
> subject, Pov-Ray being freeway and all. The poll is: What do you think
> about Warez software? For those that don't know Warez= pirated software.
> I'm not talking about large scale sale a distribution but small scale
> pirating, things like cracked versions of 3D Studio and such. Just
> curious as to what the Pov community thinks. :-)

Post a reply to this message

Many people who crack software never release what they do, and many of those
don't even use the software.  They are hardcore programmers that just love to
figure out how things work.  I know, it sounds strange, but some people think
that the things people do to make an image in POV-Ray is wierd too.

I have heard some people who do it can make money by revealing how they got
around the protection to the companies that make the software - kind of like
hackers that get a job doing computer security.

...but this is all unrelated to warez really, which is a blatant illegal act.
As to how it relates to POV-Ray, well, it doesn't.  POV-Ray is free!  If someone
doesn't think POV-Ray is any good, that's their problem, not ours.

-Mike

Johannes Hubert wrote:

> Thomas Lake wrote in message <37199110.D024DB48@home.com>...
> >Bob Hughes wrote:
> >
> [snip]
> >> You mention "small" warez things like cracked versions of 3DS. Can't see
> >> that as being a small thing myself.
> >
> >I meant the distinction between large scale pirating operations for money
> and
> >people cracking programs on their home pc.
>
> The problem with warez ("people cracking programs on their home pc") is not
> that those people are cracking the software - if it was for their own use!
> Usually they don't "crack-to-use" anyway, but just to crack. They are not
> really interested in actually using the cracked software much anyway - which
> means: They wouldn't have bought the software anyway - no harm done!
>
> At the first view!
>
> But what *really* pisses me off is, that those "home pc" crackers (which you
> define as "small") then *publish* the software on warez-sites, making the
> "cracked-for-fun-and-the-determintation-to-show-that-it-can-be-done"
> software available to unscrupulous users, like 3D artists without a
> conscience (hopefully there are only a few) that would otherwise actually
> have bought the product because they really need and use it, or even to
> those "we-are-in-it-for-the-money" software pirates that you say are bad.
>
> Do you really think that those pirates do their own cracks? Why should they?
> There are enough cracks around done by those oh-so-innocent "home-pc"
> crackers!
>
> Johannes.

Post a reply to this message

Making a Celeron SMP system is in no way comparable to cracking programs.
You can't remarket a Celeron-based SMP system as a Xeon system. It's just
greedy marketing politics, nothing more. Breaking the multiplier lock would
be a better example. It's not illegal per se, but it allows for illegal
remarketing of overclocked processors. Not that I support multiplier (or
bus) locking in any way.

And you mean to say you never used the working warez you DLed? Well, if you
say so. I'm not the one to impugn your integrity :)

Margus

portelli wrote in message <37197A90.CFEDEAE2@pilot.msu.edu>...
>There will always be warez software.  If there is copy protection
>someone will want to find a way to crack it.  Like with Playstation
>games, and finding out how to make the Celeron SMP capable.  I used to
>like just trying to find a working copy of programs.  It was all in the
>search.  When I obtained a working program I just kept it as a trophy,
>until I ran out of diskspace.  Now I search for good freeware programs.
>(Which is harder since there is so much out there.)
>

Post a reply to this message