"Greg M. Johnson" wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the interest, but I'm not sure exactly what you mean.
> I noticed that the lip breaks across the teeth and fixed it...
> Any other specific criticisms greatly appreciatred...
> 

I didn't mean that there was anything technically wrong with the
lips, just that he doesn't seem to close them which I would say
he should if he were my kid ;)

Remco

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I now have about 60 cylinder blob components just in the chin.  How does it
look?  I think it would look better if there were a rear jawbone (from ear
to bottom of jaw) "visible" in the face, but want to know if there's enough
suspension of disbelief as it is.

Oh yeah and I have to fix that split lip.

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Attachments:
Download 'poseskull02.mpg' (306 KB)

"Greg M. Johnson" wrote:
> 
> I now have about 60 cylinder blob components just in the chin.  How does it
> look?  I think it would look better if there were a rear jawbone (from ear
> to bottom of jaw) "visible" in the face, but want to know if there's enough
> suspension of disbelief as it is.
> 
> Oh yeah and I have to fix that split lip.
> 
>                       Name: poseskull02.mpg
>    poseskull02.mpg    Type: WMPLAYER File (video/x-mpeg2a)
>                   Encoding: x-uuencode

To be honest I like the previous one better (pose329sun.mpg) but
that might also be because it's smaller. The ridges on the lower
jaw look too artificial.
There is one other thing that becomes obvious in this animation
(and was already in the other one too) which I think isn't
entirely right: the rotation point (hinge?) of the lower jaw
seems to be to far backward. Or actually it's probably too far
down, since the jaw is attached to the skull somewhere near the
ears.
I expect your ultimate goal isn't hyper-realism but I think the
previous one was at least more acceptable within it's own
"representational model" (phew!).

The cylinder blobs must have slowed down rendering a lot, right?

Remco

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Good stuff!


I've liked these animations.  It shows promise indeed!  Whilst I'm working
on inverse kinematics, to do an anatomically correct movements... (ie
walking, kicking, running, punching, etc), its good to know someone is
working on the face!.. ;-)

Try placing the pivot point for the jaw roughly just forward of the ear
lobe?  In otherwords up a bit.  :)

Also I think that starting the mouth closed would be better and try having
it slightly "sad".. in otherwords from
front onwards have the mouth appear slightly downturned.  Might give a
little bit more realism.  Now I think about it the top lip is probably
curved more and the bottom lip stays mostly flat... if you know what I mean?

To the top lip.  The top of it shouldn't stretch much at all with the jaw
movement.  Try only stretching the left and right thirds of the top lip.
Also try putting a bit of "fatness" behind the bottom lip just where the
teeth are.

Of course if you really want it to look more real... then the skin texture
should be "imperfect".  But get the model working before you get to that I
say.  :)

Well thats how I see it anyway... :)

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"Aaron" <aar### [at] ihugconz> wrote in message
news:3dc26a8c@news.povray.org...
> Good stuff!
>

1)  My plan is later to make lip-sync shapes for the lips. It's just an
ellipse cutting into the blob for now.

2) I have a body, too.  I shared a basic outline of the system  at
http://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.scene-files/19489
But the new system is even more modular, comes with a laser-firing ring, and
has more realistic modelling.

> Try placing the pivot point for the jaw roughly just forward of
>  the ear lobe?  In otherwords up a bit.  :)
>

3) My bone "points" are based on a pretty detailed anatomical skeleton's
drawing in front & side views.  I believe I have the rotation point in the
right place. If it appears out of place to you, that's a signal to me
there's some other problem with the construction, perhaps that the jawbone
is submerged on this surface with the current construction.


> Also try putting a bit of "fatness" behind the bottom lip just
> where the teeth are.
>

4) Good anatomical advice.  A coding headache given my current system.

Remco writes:
> To be honest I like the previous one better
> (pose329sun.mpg)

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!


> but that might also be because
> it's smaller. The ridges on the
> lower jaw look too artificial.

Good point that I should find another way to get a pointy chin.


<<There is one other thing that becomes obvious in this animation
(and was already in the other one too) which I think isn't
entirely right: the rotation point (hinge?) of the lower jaw
seems to be to far backward. Or actually it's probably too far
down, since the jaw is attached to the skull somewhere near the
ears.>>

Again, I think that perhaps I've got  some other problem. The rotation may
appear off due to other modelling problems.

> The cylinder blobs must have slowed down rendering
>  a lot, right?

One minute per 320x240 frame. It is all one blob, 'cept the eyeballs and
teeth and tongue.   I had 30 cylinders for the chin before but when to 90
plus 30 more negative ones for an "oral cavity".

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"Greg M. Johnson" wrote:
> 
> > To be honest I like the previous one better
> > (pose329sun.mpg)
> 
> WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

I couldn't see it...

> 
> > but that might also be because
> > it's smaller. The ridges on the
> > lower jaw look too artificial.
> 
> Good point that I should find another way to get a pointy chin.

You might try a flat sperical blob element.

Perhaps with the amount of elements you're using it isn't really
a problem but I found that cylinders in blobs can slow down the
rendering dramatically.

Remco

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Attachments:
Download 'pose330drawn5mon2.mpg' (282 KB)

His teeth need gums and fuller lips would really help.

-- 
Ken Tyler

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Yep... jaw looks much better!... now all you have to do is bring the top lip
down and the bottom lip up... so they meet in the middle... :)  Also as the
other post says... fill the lips out a bit too.

Otherwise fantastic work!

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Ultimately, the mouth will be made from cutout shapes to match the mouth
openings in:

http://www.comet-cartoons.com/toons/3ddocs/lipsync/Phon-Typical.jpg

Making actual lips is doable, but I cannot figure out a way to have lips AND
my programmable lip-sync capabilities. That is, without having a
40-component mouth hole, and my interest is not in that degree of mouth
realism.

Ken couldn't see the existing gums because as I later discovered, the teeth
are actually too far back into the mouth, and the "hole" for the "mouth
interior" actually cuts through the lower jaw.

I'll try to have a great step forward before I post more of this dribble
ware....




"Aaron" <aar### [at] ihugconz> wrote in message
news:3dc75c44@news.povray.org...
> Yep... jaw looks much better!... now all you have to do is bring the top
lip
> down and the bottom lip up... so they meet in the middle... :)  Also as
the
> other post says... fill the lips out a bit too.
>
> Otherwise fantastic work!
>
>

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