Thanks! Actually I never thought the cloth would touch for a second time the
sphere, but I'm glad it did so!

I just changed the texture of the cloth, but I believe the MPEG compression
will not like it. Let me see if I can post it, and you'll tell me if you
like it better, ok?

Vielen Dank!

Fernando.


news:3c6942af@news.povray.org...
> VERY cool!
>
> The realism has increased dramatically!
>
> I think this is the first time where the capabilities of your simulation
> come out. I like this movie very much. Especially the part where the cloth
> kicks the sphere's ass ;-) (if a sphere can have a thing like an ass)
>
> Just one note:
>
> change the texture of the cloth .. i still prefer the semi-transparent one
> :-)))

Post a reply to this message

"Tony[B]" <ben### [at] catholicorg> wrote in message
news:3c694521@news.povray.org...
> Sweet... Me gusta...

Thanks!!!

Fernando.

Post a reply to this message

At first I'd like to make you a great compliment for this and the other
cloth animations. They really look great.

But something I'm missing in the behaviour of the cloth: It always looks
like a thin sheet of something like rubber. It has always the capability to
fold itself perfectly to the origin position. I think real cloth does not
behave like this. It doesn't have that much ripples and waves and it folds
slowlier.

I don't know if I expressed myself exactly enough. I mean theres something
like a minimal energy to fold two "cells" of cloth and a stronger damping on
the movement of the cloth is needed.

But that are just some suggestions of a unexpierenced "cloth" programmer.
You're work looks really great.

Yours sincerely

      Simon Meier

Post a reply to this message

news:3c69499a@news.povray.org...
> "Thomas Charron" <tch### [at] ductapenet> wrote in message
> news:3c686c12$1@news.povray.org...
> >     Wow.  That is one of the best ones I've seen as of yet..
> Thanks Thomas!!!
> I'm glad you liked it. I think that so many hours of work have finally
begun
> to pay off!!!

    DEFINATLY..  Now, when ya gonna share with the rest of the world?
*snickers*

Post a reply to this message

> I hope you'll like it and I'll be happy to receive any
> comment or suggestion.

Wow, this is really impressive!

I don't recall in what program you make the simulation. Ultimately I hope it
can be implemented in POV-Ray as a patch, if that isn't what you're already
doing.

Now, I know it's very ambiguous, but IMO to make the cloth simulations
really useful for a wide variety of animations, three things are needed:

* Any points on the cloth can be "control points", i.e. points that you can
control and attach to things in scene. For example, in this animation it
seemed like the two upper corners were control points, or maybe the entire
upper edge of the cloth (it was a bit difficult to see). But I hope it can
be possible to make any point a control point. This is probably not too
difficult; maybe your system can already do this.

* Collision detection with any object in POV-Ray. And the objects should be
described in normal POV-Ray syntax. This of course is only possible if the
cloth simulation is made as a patch. This would increase the possibilities a
lot!

* And the most difficult: Instead of the cloth always being a square piece,
it should be able to be any form. I don't just mean any flat form, but
really any form. The most extreme form of this would be if the simulation
could take any mesh as basis for the shape. I know it will be extremely
difficult creating a system that will automatically figure out where to
place all the strings, and just to keep track on them when there's no real
order in the grid. However, if this or something similar is done, the system
could be used to simulate real clothes. Clothes, and not cloth, is in my
opinion one of the ultimate goals for a simulation system like this.

I don't expect you to do any of this, it's just a few long-term visions that
I think could be cool... ;)

Rune
--
3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
Rune's World:    http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated Jan 20)
POV-Ray Users:   http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk/povrayusers/
POV-Ray Webring: http://webring.povray.co.uk

Post a reply to this message

"Meier Simon" <ice### [at] gmxnet> wrote in message
news:3c6959e2$1@news.povray.org...
> At first I'd like to make you a great compliment for this and the other
> cloth animations. They really look great.

Thank you very much!!!!

> But something I'm missing in the behaviour of the cloth: It always looks
> like a thin sheet of something like rubber. It has always the capability
to
> fold itself perfectly to the origin position. I think real cloth does not
> behave like this. It doesn't have that much ripples and waves and it folds
> slowlier.

You're absolutely right: the model itself is a bunch of interconnected
springs. I try to make the springs as stiff as possible in order to make it
as cloth-like as I can, but too much stiffness need much more slow
computations and can lead into stability problems. That is specially true
now, since I haven't been able to abandon Forward Euler. I have to make some
major changes in my code to allow this and other things...

> I don't know if I expressed myself exactly enough. I mean theres something
> like a minimal energy to fold two "cells" of cloth and a stronger damping
on
> the movement of the cloth is needed.
>
> But that are just some suggestions of a unexpierenced "cloth" programmer.
> You're work looks really great.

Some weeks ago I was a totally unexperienced cloth programmer too!!! You
learn many things while you walk in this bumpy road!

Thank you very much again for your compliments,

Fernando.

Post a reply to this message

"Rune" <run### [at] mobilixnetdk> wrote in message
news:3c698a7b@news.povray.org...

> Wow, this is really impressive!

I'm truly honored to know that I've impressed the great Rune! I'm really
glad you liked it!

> I don't recall in what program you make the simulation. Ultimately I hope
it
> can be implemented in POV-Ray as a patch, if that isn't what you're
already
> doing.

I'm afraid I will not be able to implement it as a patch, at least in the
short-run, because my programming abilities are not very good :)
However, I know that Apache IS trying to do a more general stand-alone
application. I'm sure everyone will love it. He has several great ideas and
I'm sure he'll be able to implement them wisely.

> Now, I know it's very ambiguous, but IMO to make the cloth simulations
> really useful for a wide variety of animations, three things are needed:
>
> * Any points on the cloth can be "control points", i.e. points that you
can
> control and attach to things in scene. For example, in this animation it
> seemed like the two upper corners were control points, or maybe the entire
> upper edge of the cloth (it was a bit difficult to see). But I hope it can
> be possible to make any point a control point. This is probably not too
> difficult; maybe your system can already do this.

Fortunately, I think it is that is not very difficult to do that. However, I
have read that it is not very wise to modify a particle's position directly,
that is, bypassing it's velocity and force. Nevertheless, that's the way I
do it, and it works... :) (more or less!!!)

> * Collision detection with any object in POV-Ray. And the objects should
be
> described in normal POV-Ray syntax. This of course is only possible if the
> cloth simulation is made as a patch. This would increase the possibilities
a
> lot!

Yes, I agree with you. The only solution would be if the program is made as
a patch. However, a general syntax for basic primitive forms can be
developed without much trouble, I think...

> * And the most difficult: Instead of the cloth always being a square
piece,
> it should be able to be any form. I don't just mean any flat form, but
> really any form. The most extreme form of this would be if the simulation
> could take any mesh as basis for the shape. I know it will be extremely
> difficult creating a system that will automatically figure out where to
> place all the strings, and just to keep track on them when there's no real
> order in the grid. However, if this or something similar is done, the
system
> could be used to simulate real clothes. Clothes, and not cloth, is in my
> opinion one of the ultimate goals for a simulation system like this.

Hmm... I don't think this is the most difficult, as I believe that the
program can be adapted to use ANY mesh, so it could really have any form.
Maybe the most difficult part is designing this shapes (like clothes) and
passing the mesh to the program, along with the information of which points
must be connected to which other points in the cloth, and their desired
distance. (Or is that exactly the difficulty you meant?)

> I don't expect you to do any of this, it's just a few long-term visions
that
> I think could be cool... ;)

Well, I share with you these ideals! Currently my worst nightmare is that I
still cannot implement a more robust method, other than Forward Euler. I
haven't been able to take that from my head for several days, so I hope that
a good solution will pop out soon.

Thanks again for your valuable comments!

Fernando.

Post a reply to this message

> ...
> Fortunately, I think it is that is not very difficult to do that. However, I
> have read that it is not very wise to modify a particle's position directly,
> that is, bypassing it's velocity and force. Nevertheless, that's the way I
> do it, and it works... :) (more or less!!!)

Maybe increasing the mass of a control point to a really huge number
would make it very unresponsive to "pulling" by other points/springs?

> ...
> Hmm... I don't think this is the most difficult, as I believe that the
> program can be adapted to use ANY mesh, so it could really have any form.
> Maybe the most difficult part is designing this shapes (like clothes) and
> passing the mesh to the program, along with the information of which points
> must be connected to which other points in the cloth, and their desired
> distance. (Or is that exactly the difficulty you meant?)
> ...

IIRC mesh2 includes specifications for the lines joining points; perhaps
you could use these as the basis for determining spring positions?
JAT...

-- 
signature{
  "Grey Knight" contact{ email "gre### [at] yahoocom" }
  site_of_week{ url "http://digilander.iol.it/jrgpov" }
}

Post a reply to this message

> I'm truly honored to know that I've impressed the great Rune!

*Blush* Aw come on, none of my work is nearly as advanced as this! :)

> I'm afraid I will not be able to implement it as a patch,
> at least in the short-run, because my programming abilities
> are not very good :)

Same here - sigh...

> Fortunately, I think it is that is not very difficult
> to do that. However, I have read that it is not very
> wise to modify a particle's position directly, that is,
> bypassing it's velocity and force. Nevertheless, that's
> the way I do it, and it works... :) (more or less!!!)

I think it looks fine!

> Yes, I agree with you. The only solution would be if the
> program is made as a patch. However, a general syntax for
> basic primitive forms can be developed without much
> trouble, I think...

Support for basic shapes won't be enough to put clothes on a character and
do collision detection with the character's body. But it's still a good
start.

> Maybe the most difficult part is designing this shapes
> (like clothes) and passing the mesh to the program, along
> with the information of which points must be connected to
> which other points in the cloth, and their desired distance.
> (Or is that exactly the difficulty you meant?)

Yes... :)

> Well, I share with you these ideals! Currently my worst
> nightmare is that I still cannot implement a more robust
> method, other than Forward Euler. I haven't been able to
> take that from my head for several days, so I hope that
> a good solution will pop out soon.

Good luck. I look forward to see more! :)

Rune
--
3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
Rune's World:    http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated Jan 20)
POV-Ray Users:   http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk/povrayusers/
POV-Ray Webring: http://webring.povray.co.uk

Post a reply to this message

"Grey Knight" wrote:
> IIRC mesh2 includes specifications for the lines
> joining points; perhaps you could use these as the
> basis for determining spring positions?

That's what I thought too.

You can find out that way which points are connected, and also the distances
between them. An by also looking at points that are connected to points that
are connected to points, you could find all the nessesary springs for each
point.

Rune
--
3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
Rune's World:    http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated Jan 20)
POV-Ray Users:   http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk/povrayusers/
POV-Ray Webring: http://webring.povray.co.uk

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