In article <40170c7c$1@news.povray.org> , "Dan P" 
<dan### [at] yahoocom> wrote:

> * Don't give me no guff about DirectX... I don't see SGI working it's
> tail-off to make OpenGL better, but Microsoft is clamoring to do so because
> of their gaming franchise, and Microsoft seems to be turning a new leaf
> lately... along with the rest of the industry. .NET is wonderful thing.

Remember that there is more than gaming.  And DirectX, from a programmer's
perspective is an impossible API.  It just changes 90% with each version.

OpenGL has many flaws, its error reporting and state model being the major
ones that get in the way of smooth development.  Some of the extensions are
a bit odd to use (consider texture "objects" versus display lists and how
they are activated), but they are fairly portable and the API is very
stable.

For any project whose code you don't finish and forget, like you do for
games, this is extremely important if you want to be able to support your
applications for more than one version of Windos.

    Thorsten

PS: Please try not to post such irrelevant statements like ".NET is
wonderful thing.".  Such discussion does not belong here.

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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In article <cjameshuff-5D04D9.14013731012004@news.povray.org> , Christopher
James Huff <cja### [at] earthlinknet>  wrote:

> Look into OpenGL 2.0. OpenGL is being actively developed

Note that Open GL 2.0 started as a marketing activity of one single company
and not as a standard proposal.  Up until today, "OpenGL 2.0" is still very
little more than that, and nobody can be certain any final standard, should
one result of it, will ever fulfill the marketing promises that were made.
And OpenGL 1.5 offers access to essentially all the same features.  Not that
there is any driver for Windos yet that even full support OpenGL 1.4 <sigh>

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in message
news:401c1ec3@news.povray.org...
> In article <40170c7c$1@news.povray.org> , "Dan P"
> <dan### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> Remember that there is more than gaming.  And DirectX, from a programmer's
> perspective is an impossible API.  It just changes 90% with each version.

Evolution.

> PS: Please try not to post such irrelevant statements like ".NET is
> wonderful thing.".  Such discussion does not belong here.

It was relevant to the posting. It isn't relevant to this one. Not sure why
you brought it up. Such discussion doesn't belong here.

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In article <401c0f53$1@news.povray.org> , "Dan P" 
<dan### [at] yahoocom> wrote:

> 1. Microsoft is
> realizing that their gaming business very important and they tend to do well
> on things they find important (think IDEs), and

If you do games, yes.  But maybe you missed it, but there are other uses of
3D graphics.  And the interest and money behind that is several magnitudes
bigger than what 3D games can ever reach.  One of these interests is
commonly referred to as "military".  And you sure don't think anybody still
designs houses, cars, ships, trains or and other machine or device with
pencil and paper these days, do you?

> 2. I have been in SGI and I
> have reason not to have confidence in that company based on personal,
> anecdotal experience.

You have no clue about the specification process of OpenGL, do you?  Because
if you did you would know that SGI released the OpenGL specification process
to a industry group a *very* long time ago.

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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In article <401c2147$1@news.povray.org> , "Dan P" 
<dan### [at] yahoocom> wrote:

>> Remember that there is more than gaming.  And DirectX, from a programmer's
>> perspective is an impossible API.  It just changes 90% with each version.
>
> Evolution.
>
>> PS: Please try not to post such irrelevant statements like ".NET is
>> wonderful thing.".  Such discussion does not belong here.
>
> It was relevant to the posting. It isn't relevant to this one. Not sure why
> you brought it up. Such discussion doesn't belong here.

It was just a warning that the following might happen:

*plonk*

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich
e-mail: mac### [at] povrayorg

I am a member of the POV-Ray Team.
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in message
news:401c217f@news.povray.org...
> In article <401c0f53$1@news.povray.org> , "Dan P"
> <dan### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
>
> You have no clue about the specification process of OpenGL, do you?
Because
> if you did you would know that SGI released the OpenGL specification
process
> to a industry group a *very* long time ago.

Wow, Thorsten, friend, take a deep breath. I don't know much about OpenGL
except SGI originally made it and they still have it trademarked. I don't
trust SGI and, in fact, I don't even /like/ SGI. And, for the record, I'm
not all much on Microsoft either, but I do know that they are aggressively
working on DirectX to meet their needs and, as a side-effect, they wind up
meeting mine. You might trust SGI not to wait until you guys fix it up and
make it great before they take it from you and make money off it, but I
don't. The OpenSource movement doesn't mean you should be naive about how
corporations work. You really should make your own specification that isn't
owned by a corporation if you want to make something open for a community to
work on and /keep/.

Just because SGI released the specification process a long time ago doesn't
mean they forgot about it. Think about Unisys and GIF.

I'm not making a game with DirectX -- I'm making a patch editor that will
hopefully come to fruition some day. DirectX is generally used for games,
yet it is actually just an abstraction layer that lets me exploit the
hardware capabilites of my equipment. That's why the called it DirectX -
Direct for direct to hardware, X to mean all the different hardware (X is a
variable). I also think that it will be easier to distribute and install the
editor using DirectX over OpenGL. And, really, I just want to learn more
about DirectX in the process. I understand you want things, but this patch
editor is really just about what I want and if other people can benefit from
it, great.

And remember: I'm not Bill, I'm just a guy who wants to make a great patch
editor.

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"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in message
news:401c22c6@news.povray.org...
> It was just a warning that the following might happen:
>
> *plonk*

You must learn that when people don't agree with you, it doesn't mean they
don't know anything. Really, relax dude -- I haven't said anything that is
"wrong", yet, so I don't deserve a plonk. Facts I have stated:

1. SGI owns the trademark to OpenGL.
2. DirectX is a hardware abstraction layer that lets me exploit the
capabilities of my hardware for speed.
3. DirectX isn't only for games.
4. .NET is a wonderful thing.

Please, feel free to debunk these claims somehow before you carelessly plonk
somebody.

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In article <401c22c6@news.povray.org> , "Thorsten Froehlich" 
<tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
> In article <401c2147$1@news.povray.org> , "Dan P"
> <dan### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
>
>>> Remember that there is more than gaming.  And DirectX, from a programmer's
>>> perspective is an impossible API.  It just changes 90% with each version.
>>
>> Evolution.
>>
>>> PS: Please try not to post such irrelevant statements like ".NET is
>>> wonderful thing.".  Such discussion does not belong here.
>>
>> It was relevant to the posting. It isn't relevant to this one. Not sure why
>> you brought it up. Such discussion doesn't belong here.
>
> It was just a warning that the following might happen:
>
> *plonk*

FYI, for everybody reading this thread without a technical background:

Do not take anything he says for fact; hardly anything is. There is no point
to argue on such a level and thus no reason to respond to him.

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich
e-mail: mac### [at] povrayorg

I am a member of the POV-Ray Team.
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

Post a reply to this message

"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in message
news:401c49e8$1@news.povray.org...
> FYI, for everybody reading this thread without a technical background:
>
> Do not take anything he says for fact; hardly anything is. There is no
point
> to argue on such a level and thus no reason to respond to him.

I fully support Thorsten in this claim. Now, Thorsten is going to teach you
all why I don't have a technical background by debunking what I have said:

1. SGI owns the trademark to OpenGL.
2. DirectX is a hardware abstraction layer that lets me exploit the
capabilities of my hardware for speed.
3. DirectX isn't only for games.
4. .NET is a wonderful thing.

Thorsten is interested in you understanding these things are wrong and why
the prove I'm not technical.
Unselfishly, he will lay out his claims for these things so that you don't
wind up like me: plonked.
He is interested in you understanding what the facts are so you will be
enlightened.

And remember: Thorsten is an important person.

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"Dan P" <dan### [at] yahoocom> wrote in message
news:401c581e$1@news.povray.org...
> "Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in message
> news:401c49e8$1@news.povray.org...

Oh, and my grammar doesn't count ;-)

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