PLugins, plugins, plugins, plugins... Everyone requests plugins. Everyone
makes plugins. Hundreds of plugins, thousands, millions... And moray grows
and grows and grows...

  Instead of making a plugin for each simple task (like the random placement
of objects), wouldn't it be a better idea to allow the user to write little
povray scripts to do the task instead?
  For example for the random placement of an object you would only open
an editor window for the specified object or whatever and just type the
povray code for its placement.
  If you type something that creates objects you could somehow tell to moray
how to create a wireframe for that object (in povray's comments or in a
completely separated window with its own scripting language or something).

  So instead of making hundreds and thousands of little programs for each
task (and still being unable to perform every task), you could just have a
few powerful tools to perform any task (ie. a unix-like system).

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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Nieminen Mika wrote:
> 
>   PLugins, plugins, plugins, plugins... Everyone requests plugins. Everyone
> makes plugins. Hundreds of plugins, thousands, millions... And moray grows
> and grows and grows...
> 
>   Instead of making a plugin for each simple task (like the random placement
> of objects), wouldn't it be a better idea to allow the user to write little
> povray scripts to do the task instead?

And limit Moray to POV-Ray?  I like the fact that Moray has been opened
up to support generic export capabilities.  If you do nothing but
POV-Ray scripts, you can't ever take advantage of anything but POV-Ray.

Xander

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Alexander Enzmann <xan### [at] mitreorg> wrote:
: And limit Moray to POV-Ray?  I like the fact that Moray has been opened
: up to support generic export capabilities.  If you do nothing but
: POV-Ray scripts, you can't ever take advantage of anything but POV-Ray.

  Did I say that the scripting should be the only way to create objects?

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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Alexander Enzmann wrote:

> Nieminen Mika wrote:
> >
> >   PLugins, plugins, plugins, plugins... Everyone requests plugins. Everyone
> > makes plugins. Hundreds of plugins, thousands, millions... And moray grows
> > and grows and grows...
> >
> >   Instead of making a plugin for each simple task (like the random placement
> > of objects), wouldn't it be a better idea to allow the user to write little
> > povray scripts to do the task instead?
>
> And limit Moray to POV-Ray?  I like the fact that Moray has been opened
> up to support generic export capabilities.  If you do nothing but
> POV-Ray scripts, you can't ever take advantage of anything but POV-Ray.
>
> Xander

Also, couldn't you just do that in POV-Ray anyway? I believe the idea behind moray
is so that you can model it quickly, without having to worry about syntax, and
typing, etc. While it might be nice to tweak POV-files, I wouldn't want to have to
type in 10 lines of code every time I wanted to replicate an item.

Also, I agree with Xander- I like the fact that Moray will export to things other
than POV-Ray(RIB!!!!!YAY!!!!Please, someone!) Restricting this will limit morays
growth.


--
You Know You've Been Raytracing Too Long When:
 You tell stories to your kids that #include stuff like "Once there was a polygon
mesh who was very sad because he was only Gourard shaded."

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Alex Magidow <axi### [at] mninternet> wrote:
: Also, couldn't you just do that in POV-Ray anyway?

  The point is that you could do that while still being able to see the
wireframe and model with the mouse. You can do it with povray, but you
can't see the scene before you render it.

: While it might be nice to tweak POV-files, I wouldn't want to have to
: type in 10 lines of code every time I wanted to replicate an item.

  No-one is saying that every creation/transformation process should be done
by scripting. A scripting language would be nice to create things not possible
with the GUI.
  Ok, suppose that somebody gets the random placement plugin. Now you would
want to place the objects randomly along a sine-wave. What do you do? Since
you have no plugin for this, you a) don't do it, or b) make another plugin
or enhance the existing plugin for this.
  Oops, now you want the objects along the curve exp(x^2)*cos(x^3)-tan(5).
What do you do? Another plugin?
  With a scripting language you just type the function in the right place
and that's it.
  Got it?

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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I've always thought a script based modeller plugin would be cool.

Perhaps an "Insert Code" plugin could be created to perform this task while still
allowing Moray to be useable with other renderers.  This plugin would allow you to
enter some textual code and add a simple visual representation (just a cube?!?) in
the Moray Scene.  The Modify tab would only need a button to allow you to access a
code editor for modifications to the code, and some parameters that tell Moray
where the code should be inserted or if it should be saved as a seperate include
file & referenced in the export file.  For all intent & purpose, this would be a
dumb code editor.  Moray's only purpose in this matter would be to insert the code
as entered & specified - correct syntax or not.


Nieminen Mika wrote:

> Alex Magidow <axi### [at] mninternet> wrote:
> : Also, couldn't you just do that in POV-Ray anyway?
>
>   The point is that you could do that while still being able to see the
> wireframe and model with the mouse. You can do it with povray, but you
> can't see the scene before you render it.
>
> : While it might be nice to tweak POV-files, I wouldn't want to have to
> : type in 10 lines of code every time I wanted to replicate an item.
>
>   No-one is saying that every creation/transformation process should be done
> by scripting. A scripting language would be nice to create things not possible
> with the GUI.
>   Ok, suppose that somebody gets the random placement plugin. Now you would
> want to place the objects randomly along a sine-wave. What do you do? Since
> you have no plugin for this, you a) don't do it, or b) make another plugin
> or enhance the existing plugin for this.
>   Oops, now you want the objects along the curve exp(x^2)*cos(x^3)-tan(5).
> What do you do? Another plugin?
>   With a scripting language you just type the function in the right place
> and that's it.
>   Got it?
>
> --
> main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
> ):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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Nieminen Mika wrote:

>   PLugins, plugins, plugins, plugins... Everyone requests plugins. Everyone
> makes plugins. Hundreds of plugins, thousands, millions... And moray grows
> and grows and grows...
>
>   Instead of making a plugin for each simple task (like the random placement
> of objects), wouldn't it be a better idea to allow the user to write little
> povray scripts to do the task instead?

If I could write little POVray scripts, I wouldn't need Moray! :)

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I can only speak for myself...I could write little POVray scripts, but I would
still want Moray to visually model my scene.

Adding little scripts could definitely fill the holes in Moray (i.e. inserting
objects from include files, adding if/then statements, placiing objects along the
curve exp(x^2)*cos(x^3)-tan(5), accessing features in patched versions of POVray
etc.)

Simon de Vet wrote:

> If I could write little POVray scripts, I wouldn't need Moray! :)

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Nieminen Mika wrote:
> 
> Alexander Enzmann <xan### [at] mitreorg> wrote:
> : And limit Moray to POV-Ray?  I like the fact that Moray has been opened
> : up to support generic export capabilities.  If you do nothing but
> : POV-Ray scripts, you can't ever take advantage of anything but POV-Ray.
> 
>   Did I say that the scripting should be the only way to create objects?

No - my comment was about, "Instead of making a plugin for each simple
task (like the random placement of objects), wouldn't it be a better
idea to allow the user to write little povray scripts to do the task
instead?".

Scripting is just fine.  However, to keep Moray as general as possible,
writing "povray scripts..." seems limiting.  It seems to me that POV-Ray
itself has provided a way for you to write little scripts as macros. 
Open up MorayPOV.INC in notepad, write your macro, and off you go.

Xander

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Alexander Enzmann <xan### [at] mitreorg> wrote:
: Scripting is just fine.  However, to keep Moray as general as possible,
: writing "povray scripts..." seems limiting.

  This sentence looks quite contradictory to me.
  Why _adding_ a scripting feature would be _limiting_ moray? I don't
understand.

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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