In article <3e61116f@news.povray.org> , "Vadim Sytnikov" <syt### [at] rucom>
wrote:

> You may have a 1000 of good reasons not to release a Win32 console version.
> You may have no extra time, or you may just dislike the very idea, for
> whatever reason. You don't even have to reply to the requests, at all. But
> if you do so, please spare "those few who need it" your usual arrogance.

If you need more control, rather than wasting time creating a custom Windows
command-line version each time an official Windows version is released,
maybe you should just decide to write a GUI extension that does pretty much
the same without the need for having a custom version?  But hey, seems like
complaining is soooo much easier :-(

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
>
> If you need more control, rather than wasting time creating a custom
> Windows command-line version each time an official Windows version
> is released, maybe you should just decide to write a GUI extension that
> does pretty much the same without the need for having a custom version?

Thorsten, I wish I could do so. But the thing is that my custom version of
POV-Ray is (repeatedly) run from within my other application running in
DirectX hi-color full-screen mode, and has to be run absolutely quietly,
without gaining focus, switching screen mode, drawing anything on screen
etc. To the best of my knowledge, the only way to do so under Windows is to
make POV-Ray a console application, and launch it with so-called detached
console. The exact code that runs POV-Ray from within my other application
looks like this:

  if( CreateProcess(
    NULL,             // no module name: use cmdline (it will search PATH)
    pov_cmdline,      // command line
    NULL,             // no process security attributes
    NULL,             // no thread security attributes
    TRUE,             // inherit handles
    DETACHED_PROCESS, // creation flags: no console (won't be visible
anyway)
    NULL,             // inherit environment
    NULL,             // start in current folder
    & pov_startup,    // pass startup info
    & pov_pinfo ))    // get created handles and IDs
  ...

The above is the unmodified code snippet. Please note the DETACHED_PROCESS
flag.

> But hey, seems like complaining is soooo much easier :-(

Thorsten... ooh... how can I explain this? I sincerely appreciate your, and
others', efforts as to the continued development of POV-Ray. I wish I were
in position to do that much. And I in no way complain about the development
of POV-Ray.

And I did *not* ask for Win32 console version, myself. Pls re-read my
message. The only thing I ask for: please do not take every suggestion
and/or disagreement as a sign of ignorance and/or attack aimed at you, and
try to treat that more lightly... Pretty please.

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"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in
news:3e6149d2$1@news.povray.org: 

> In article <Xns### [at] 204213191226> , Tom Galvin 
> <tom### [at] imporg>  wrote:
> 
>> 4) run pvengine.exe with /exit
>>
>> Each has it's drawbacks.
> 
> Using a command-line version is exactly the same.  It is not like the
> command-line version will continue to run after the render finished! 
> So the difference is essentially zero.
> 

Not exactly zero.  It will grab the focus in Windows for each frame.  This 
makes working on the machine challenging during animations with hundreds or
thousands of frames.  

I am not a C programmer, so I am not able to contribute in that manner, 
but I have tried to be supportive in other ways that I am capable of. 
Please don't take this as a complaint.  It is only a request for
consideration.  I am very appreciative of all the work that has been
done by the team over the past decade. 

Tom

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In article <3e615933$1@news.povray.org> , "Vadim Sytnikov" <syt### [at] rucom>
wrote:

> Thorsten, I wish I could do so. But the thing is that my custom version of
> POV-Ray is (repeatedly) run from within my other application running in
> DirectX hi-color full-screen mode

Definitely something the average user is doing...

And apart from that, the request to force POV-Ray to always remain hidden
(the original in this thread) can be used to violate the license.  Obviously
official versions do not come with built-in means to violate the license,
that would be kind of stupid, don't you think?

>> But hey, seems like complaining is soooo much easier :-(
>
> Thorsten... ooh... how can I explain this? I sincerely appreciate your, and
> others', efforts as to the continued development of POV-Ray. I wish I were
> in position to do that much. And I in no way complain about the development
> of POV-Ray.
>
> And I did *not* ask for Win32 console version, myself. Pls re-read my
> message. The only thing I ask for: please do not take every suggestion
> and/or disagreement as a sign of ignorance and/or attack aimed at you, and
> try to treat that more lightly... Pretty please.

That is not the point here.  I don't develop the Windows version.  I just
have a problem with people who don't read the manual and then wonder why the
have problem achieving non-trivial tasks.  They don't read any previous
messages in this group either, because, as you state, there have been a few
threads about this before.

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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Vadim Sytnikov <syt### [at] rucom> wrote:
> Thorsten, I wish I could do so. But the thing is that my custom version of
> POV-Ray is (repeatedly) run from within my other application running in
> DirectX hi-color full-screen mode, and has to be run absolutely quietly,
> without gaining focus, switching screen mode, drawing anything on screen
> etc. To the best of my knowledge, the only way to do so under Windows is to
> make POV-Ray a console application, and launch it with so-called detached
> console.

  Have you ever used Moray? Have you noticed how it (repeatedly) uses
POV-Ray to render the scene? Have you ever wondered how it does it?

-- 
#macro N(D)#if(D>99)cylinder{M()#local D=div(D,104);M().5,2pigment{rgb M()}}
N(D)#end#end#macro M()<mod(D,13)-6mod(div(D,13)8)-3,10>#end blob{
N(11117333955)N(4254934330)N(3900569407)N(7382340)N(3358)N(970)}//  - Warp -

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"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
>
> And apart from that, the request to force POV-Ray to always remain
> hidden (the original in this thread) can be used to violate the license.
> Obviously official versions do not come with built-in means to violate
> the license, that would be kind of stupid, don't you think?

I see. Makes sense. But let me offer a bit of clarification. If you program
in C, then under Windows standard means of running other applications are
WinExec() and system(), the latter also being ANSI... Neither of these
functions provides for a 'quiet start': if your application is a console
one, then the console window will pop up inevitably, even if your
application does not print anything to console.

If you want a 'quiet statr', then you have to use CreateProcess(). It is a
relatively advanced technique, involving handles manipulations, treating
some handles as events and performing 'wait' on them etc. (not included in
my snippet). All in all, to use CreateProcess() properly is a more
complicated (in terms of skill) task than to strip down the windowed version
of POV-Ray to make it into the console one -- IMHO. Hope that you got the
idea.

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"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
>
>   Have you ever used Moray? Have you noticed how it (repeatedly) uses
> POV-Ray to render the scene? Have you ever wondered how it does it?

Sure, I gave it a try. How it (repeatedly) uses it was what Thorsten has
suggested (a GUI extension), and I thought I have explained why I cannot use
that myself.

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In article <3e6299a8@news.povray.org> , "Vadim Sytnikov" <syt### [at] rucom>
wrote:

> Sure, I gave it a try. How it (repeatedly) uses it was what Thorsten has
> suggested (a GUI extension), and I thought I have explained why I cannot use
> that myself.

Of course you can!  All you need is documented at...

<http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/ipc/base/p
ipe_functions.asp>

    Thorsten

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"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
>
> > I thought I have explained why I cannot use that myself.
>
> Of course you can!

I was not referring to the very possibility, at all. I meant that I needed a
quiet start (no, not to violate the license! :-), and every time Windows
version of POV-Ray starts, it grabs focus and does other unwanted (for
me...) things.

Please just treat my "I cannot" as "I can, but I do not like what I get".

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Vadim Sytnikov wrote:
> 
> "Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
> >
> > > I thought I have explained why I cannot use that myself.
> >
> > Of course you can!
> 
> I was not referring to the very possibility, at all. I meant that I needed a
> quiet start (no, not to violate the license! :-), and every time Windows
> version of POV-Ray starts, it grabs focus and does other unwanted (for
> me...) things.
> 
> Please just treat my "I cannot" as "I can, but I do not like what I get".

Well, it seems we have a solution here. You can use the source code to compile
your own console version. The POV-Team will continue providing POV-Ray as they
have. When you compile your own console version you do so with the full knowledge
that you will use if explicitely for your own purposes and will not distribute
it publically. I honestly don't see where the problem is.

-- 
Ken Tyler

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