And for the guy that got offended, I wasn't trying to insult, it was more the
miscommunication and misunderstandings. Dude take it easy. Don't take it so

real. Heh


All apologies for the misunderstandings.

peace love success and real meds to everyone.
aQ

Post a reply to this message

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:31:05 -0500, alphaQuad wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> 
>> It's too easy to
>> dismiss picketers as the lunatic fringe and not representative of what
>> the public really thinks.
> 
> 
> Looks like to me like something other than a lunatic fringe.

Does to me - it looks to me like people who don't know what to do, so 
they made a sign.  I expect to see that at sporting events, not when it's 
something serious.

> I really hope that this makes us all think, and think again.

I've thought, and thought again, and nope, it still looks like people who 
don't know what to do so they made a sign.

I have seen enough of this sort of thing in real life - when the city of 
Salt Lake sold a block of Main Street to the LDS Church, we got all sorts 
of nutters in from all over the country with signs.  They disrupted 
weddings and all sorts of things to "try to get their point across".  
They also came into public meetings and disrupted them.

Disruption of public meetings and of people's wedding day is NOT the way 
to get your point across.  It is the way to get identified as part of the 
lunatic fringe, and those who came here and did that got labeled exactly 
that.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message 
news:47b5d140$1@news.povray.org...

> Suppose that psychotic purchased the weapon prior to their break?
>
> Or they decided not to take their medications?

It seems you are closer than you were probably yet sure of.

Tle latest report alleges he became psychotic *after he stopped taking 
medication*.  The inference is that his medication did not spur/cause his 
crazy attack, but were doing what they were supposed to and suppressing his 
psychosis.  His deliberate abstinence from the prescription allowed his 
psychotic condition to come out in full.

Today from ABC News site:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/02/16/2164396.htm

"A man who killed five students and himself during a shooting spree at an 
Illinois college had stopped taking medication and become erratic in the 
last two weeks, buying two guns he used in the bloodbath just six days ago, 
officials said."

Of course, it's second/third-hand and probably altered info by the time it 
comes out of a news outlet like this, but IF it eventually devolves as true, 
the case for blaming the drug / doctor / pharm. co. / AMA / govt / senators 
/ media, etc., is much weaker and the "patient's" responsibility is firmer 
(besides also his responsibility as the "shooter").

-- 
Brian

Post a reply to this message

And lets not forget that the images seen or described has been extremely
upsetting to us, well, at least to me, as I cant speak for others.


Considering I probably achieved the same level of outrage as the shooter must
have had, I did at least an adequit job commmunating in a situtation where
communication is difficult at best. Only diffference he was enraged and I am
outraged which is call to action as opposed to going postal on people.

Someone still needs their ass kicked for this and it would be best if we kicked
the right people. Knowing what he had been given, considering all previous
incidents, would be enough evidence to reveal the real cause.

Again given the facts of the drug war where no one gets real meds, mental
patients get a chemical lobotomy instead of real treatment, I for one clearly
see the culprit of governmental and pharmaceutical profiteering. Bastards.



By Ben Stein
ONE of the best conspiracy movies ever made is the perfect British classic, "The
Third Man." In the most haunting scene, the villain, played adroitly by Orson
Welles, takes Joseph Cotten, the good guy, up in a Ferris wheel. The villain,
named Harry Lime, has been selling adulterated penicillin in postwar Vienna,
making a fortune and causing children to become paralyzed and die.

Mr. Cotten's character, a pulp fiction writer named Holly Martins, asks him how
he could do such an evil thing for money. The two men are at the top of the
Ferris wheel, and the people below them look like tiny dots. Mr. Welles's
villain looks down and says, "Tell me, would you really feel any pity if one of

stopped, would you really, old man, tell me to keep my money, or would you
calculate how many dots you could afford to spare?"

This scene comes to mind when I think of Glenn F. Tilton and other executives of
the UAL Corporation and the hapless employees of its primary business, United
Airlines. Its history is a perfect text for the ethical morass in which
American business often finds itself.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/29/business/yourmoney/29every.html
if you want to read it all.

Post a reply to this message

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:42:58 -0500, alphaQuad wrote:

> Again given the facts of the drug war where no one gets real meds,
> mental patients get a chemical lobotomy instead of real treatment, I for
> one clearly see the culprit of governmental and pharmaceutical
> profiteering. Bastards.

Again, what are your qualifications for making such a statement?

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 10:42:13 +1000, Brian Elliott wrote:

> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
> news:47b5d140$1@news.povray.org...
> 
>> Suppose that psychotic purchased the weapon prior to their break?
>>
>> Or they decided not to take their medications?
> 
> It seems you are closer than you were probably yet sure of.

It's a fairly common theme in shootings like this.  Similarly we had two 
here in Salt Lake City over the last 10 years that were similar 
situations - people who were on medication to deal with mental 
instabilities who owned weapons prior to their diagnosis stopped taking 
their drugs and went off the deep end.

> Of course, it's second/third-hand and probably altered info by the time
> it comes out of a news outlet like this, but IF it eventually devolves
> as true, the case for blaming the drug / doctor / pharm. co. / AMA /
> govt / senators / media, etc., is much weaker and the "patient's"
> responsibility is firmer (besides also his responsibility as the
> "shooter").

Yep.  I tend to discount media reports as a matter of course, ever since 
they've taken to not just reporting the facts but telling us (a) how to 
interpret the facts, and (b) what to think.  I prefer to think for myself 
rather than having someone I don't know tell me what to think.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:19:50 -0500, Sabrina Kilian wrote:
> 
>>  I don't believe Cho was on Prozac.
> 
> Ditto.  But even if she was, I have family members who have taken Prozac 
> in the past, and they never went out and killed anyone.  It actually 
> worked the way it was supposed to.
> 

He. And since I wrote that, I did a little digging. Wiki (yeah, some
people use that as a source) cite an article that claims he was
prescribed Prozac during the non-detention. The article doesn't say
anything about it actually, and I have a damned hard time believing that
someone who skipped out on mandatory counseling would take the drugs
they prescribed for him.

> But people have different reactions to different drugs.  When I broke my 
> leg, I was prescribed Hydrocodone for the pain.  I had an adverse 
> reaction to it - it made me hallucinate.  I went for a week without any 
> real sleep (I did rest, but after I was off of it and on something else, 
> I realized that I'd been lying awake at night on the Hydrocodone).
> 

Simple cold medicine does that to me, the hallucination I mean. I only
recently found that the "Latest, Greatest" drug out there was designed
to get rid of that, so I can finally spend ten minutes with my parent's
cat before my nose jumps off my face in fear.

> My reaction is typical of < 0.1% of people who it is prescribed to.  That 
> doesn't make it a bad drug, just bad for me.
> 

Curious, I have to wonder if that was caused by the APAP, the active
side of hydrocodone, or the inactive side.

Post a reply to this message

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:58:36 -0500, Sabrina Kilian wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:19:50 -0500, Sabrina Kilian wrote:
>> 
>>>  I don't believe Cho was on Prozac.
>> 
>> Ditto.  But even if she was, I have family members who have taken
>> Prozac in the past, and they never went out and killed anyone.  It
>> actually worked the way it was supposed to.
>> 
> He. And since I wrote that, I did a little digging. Wiki (yeah, some
> people use that as a source) cite an article that claims he was
> prescribed Prozac during the non-detention. The article doesn't say
> anything about it actually, and I have a damned hard time believing that
> someone who skipped out on mandatory counseling would take the drugs
> they prescribed for him.

Yeah, he.  Don't know where I came up with "she" - must've been 
conflating the name with Margaret Cho for some reason.

But I also would have a hard time believing that someone who skipped 
their sessions took their drugs.

>> But people have different reactions to different drugs.  When I broke
>> my leg, I was prescribed Hydrocodone for the pain.  I had an adverse
>> reaction to it - it made me hallucinate.  I went for a week without any
>> real sleep (I did rest, but after I was off of it and on something
>> else, I realized that I'd been lying awake at night on the
>> Hydrocodone).
>> 
>> 
> Simple cold medicine does that to me, the hallucination I mean. I only
> recently found that the "Latest, Greatest" drug out there was designed
> to get rid of that, so I can finally spend ten minutes with my parent's
> cat before my nose jumps off my face in fear.

LOL!  I mean, it isn't funny, but it is, if you know what I mean. :-)

>> My reaction is typical of < 0.1% of people who it is prescribed to. 
>> That doesn't make it a bad drug, just bad for me.
>> 
>> 
> Curious, I have to wonder if that was caused by the APAP, the active
> side of hydrocodone, or the inactive side.

Not really sure myself - all I know is when it became apparent that the 
drug was the problem, I saw the doctor and told him what was happening 
and he changed the prescription after giving a brief explanation.  I've 
got a friend who worked in a hospital and learned a lot about drug 
interactions, I suppose I could ask him.  He did confirm from his sources 
(probably a PDR as he no longer works in the industry) that that was a 
rare side effect.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

I now realize I must spell everything out for you guys.

Why does someone need their ass kicked for this?

If weren't for the profiteering drug war this now dead killer more than likely
would have been smoking a bong and solving his issues creatively, not doing
what he did.

"THE ONE AND ONLY CORRECT ANSWER ... because it is effin impossible".

Now do you understand where I am coming from. And IF went for help and got
poisoned, it would have never happened had he been treated appropiately.

The AMA is freekin farce!

aQ

Post a reply to this message

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 20:33:51 -0500, alphaQuad wrote:

> I now realize I must spell everything out for you guys.
> 
> Why does someone need their ass kicked for this?
> 
> If weren't for the profiteering drug war this now dead killer more than
> likely would have been smoking a bong and solving his issues creatively,
> not doing what he did.
> 
> "THE ONE AND ONLY CORRECT ANSWER ... because it is effin impossible".
> 
> Now do you understand where I am coming from. And IF went for help and
> got poisoned, it would have never happened had he been treated
> appropiately.
> 
> The AMA is freekin farce!

Again....

WHAT QUALIFIES YOU TO MAKE SUCH A STATEMENT????

You seem to be making statements about the state of the medical 
profession, and I WANT TO KNOW what your qualifications are.  Are you a 
biochemist, have some background in pharmacology, are a medical doctor, 
WHAT?

Otherwise, I will just filter your posts on this topic.

(Yes, I'm shouting.  You don't seem to be hearing the question!)

Jim

Post a reply to this message