Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Right. So what you're saying is that when you use a real backup product, 
> it probably uses VSS to do its work without stopping people using their 
> stuff? (But you can also use vshadow if you have nothing better...)

Exactly.

Incidentally, I suspect Outlook is probably a VSS Writer, so when you start 
making the shadow copy, Outlook instances get told to finish what they're 
doing and flush any half-read messages out to disk (for example) so your 
restored file will still be correct, or at least usable. I'd be surprised if 
MS didn't bother to make that work in Outlook after doing all the work in 
VSS to support it.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Human nature dictates that toothpaste tubes spend
   much longer being almost empty than almost full.

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> Uhhh. Probably, yeah. I'm not sure if you're using Exchange why you'd be 
> storing the definitive version of .pst files on the laptop. Why not store 
> them on the exchange server?

Because we only get allocated a certain amount of space on Exchange, and 
most people quickly go over that limit within a few months of emails. 
Everyone I know that works here moves files off into local PSTs to be able 
to keep emails longer than that (which is essential in this job).  Some 
people keep one huge PST (which I think is a bad idea) others like me have 
several PST files for different areas of the job, and the big ones I usually 
split up by year or even by quarter if there is a large volume of data.

> I'm glad. It's a bit of a bugger to track down vshadow.exe, but it sounds 
> like you got it going. The /Z option to robocopy is handy too.

I got vshadow from the vss sdk which was a small free download from MS.  So 
far I've just been hacking about with the standard copy command to check 
that vshadow works, will look into robocopy later, it's on my list of things 
I know are possible but just need to be implemented now :-)

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scott wrote:
>> Uhhh. Probably, yeah. I'm not sure if you're using Exchange why you'd 
>> be storing the definitive version of .pst files on the laptop. Why not 
>> store them on the exchange server?
> 
> Because we only get allocated a certain amount of space on Exchange, and 
> most people quickly go over that limit within a few months of emails. 
> Everyone I know that works here moves files off into local PSTs to be 
> able to keep emails longer than that (which is essential in this job).  
> Some people keep one huge PST (which I think is a bad idea) others like 
> me have several PST files for different areas of the job, and the big 
> ones I usually split up by year or even by quarter if there is a large 
> volume of data.

We have this exact brain-deadness where I work.

Everybody is limited to 500MB of email. Most people have, like, 5MB or 
less, but a few people have multiple gigabytes of stuff. Apparently 
we're running out of space on our Exchange server, so the 500MB limit is 
rigidly enforced. (Why they don't just buy a bit more storage space is 
beyond me...) Thus, instead of mail on the Exchange server, people end 
up archiving it into PST files.

Now let's think about this for a moment. If your mail is on the central 
Exchange server:

- It is centrally stored on the Exchange server.
- It is protected by RAID technology.
- It is backed up every single day.
- Deligates can be given access to it.
- Multiple people can access it at once.
- You can audit who accesses what, when, and how often.
- Accidentally deleted messages can be recovered. (Apparently there are 
now *two* levels of online restore: the trash folder, and a "recover 
deleted email" option after that.)
- If your PC breaks, you can go access it from another PC.
- If you're out on the road and your laptop dies, you just find an 
Internet cafe and fire up Outlook Web Access.

Hell, if you wanted to retreive an email you deleted last year, there's 
a good chance we can get it back from last year's tapes. (And we *can* 
restore just that one single email, not your entire mailbox.)

Now let us consider the situation with PST files:

- The email now exists in a single flat file.
- This file is almost always on the local harddrive, not the server.
- If that PC has a problem... no RAID, no backups, goodbye data.
- Only one person can access a PST file at a time.
- PST files are easy to lose. Reset somebody's user profile, "hey, where 
did all my mail go?" "Do you know where you put the PST file?" "What's a 
PST file?"
- "I found this huge temp file so I deleted it. Where's all my email gone?"
- You give somebody a new PC. A month later they complain that they're 
missing their archived email. Oh, sorry, I already wiped your old PC.

Need I continue?

And yet, Corporate IT are adamant that using PST files is a Very Good 
Idea. *sigh*

Still, I guess that's why we paid thousands of dollars for an Exchange 
license, right? So that we could manage our mail in flat files. :-P

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> Hell, if you wanted to retreive an email you deleted last year, there's a 
> good chance we can get it back from last year's tapes. (And we *can* 
> restore just that one single email, not your entire mailbox.)

I asked our IT people about this last week (regarding the OP), and 
apparently once you move a message off the Exchange server to a local pst 
file there is no way to get it back.  They might be just making that up 
though.

> Need I continue?

- Outlook only lets you search in one PST file at a time, so if you are 
looking for something but don't remember exactly which PST file it is (maybe 
you split them by date) then have fun!

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>> Hell, if you wanted to retreive an email you deleted last year, 
>> there's a good chance we can get it back from last year's tapes. (And 
>> we *can* restore just that one single email, not your entire mailbox.)
> 
> I asked our IT people about this last week (regarding the OP), and 
> apparently once you move a message off the Exchange server to a local 
> pst file there is no way to get it back.  They might be just making that 
> up though.

As far as I'm aware, it's quite possible to move email messages between 
PST files, or between a PST file and an Exchange server, in any direction.

(I actually did this to give one person access to certain subfolders of 
somebody else's mailbox. Export into a PST file, log in as the other 
user, import all the mail back.)

> - Outlook only lets you search in one PST file at a time, so if you are 
> looking for something but don't remember exactly which PST file it is 
> (maybe you split them by date) then have fun!

Ooo, I didn't know that...

(I never, ever, use PST files!)

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> As far as I'm aware, it's quite possible to move email messages between 
> PST files, or between a PST file and an Exchange server, in any direction.

I meant if you move a message to a PST file, then lose the PST file somehow, 
it's impossible to get back the original message.  I guess it's unlikely the 
Exchange server was backed up between you receiving the message and moving 
it out to a PST file.  Or maybe there's a hidden "deleted mail" folder for 
messages that are *moved* rather than deleted?  IDK.

> (I never, ever, use PST files!)

Well yes, you're the IT guy, so by definition the company limit on Exchange 
mailbox size is probably the size of your mailbox plus a bit :-)

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>> As far as I'm aware, it's quite possible to move email messages 
>> between PST files, or between a PST file and an Exchange server, in 
>> any direction.
> 
> I meant if you move a message to a PST file, then lose the PST file 
> somehow, it's impossible to get back the original message.

That would seem likely, yes.

As I understand it, if you delete an item, it goes to the Deleted Items 
folder. When you empty this, the item is retained for a further X days 
(defined by the Exchange administrator). After this, it is *really* deleted.

If the stuff is still in Deleted Items, just move it back. If you've 
emptied that, there's still a "Recover Deleted Item" menu item hidden 
somewhere which lets you resurrect it (without needing to call the 
server admin).

I would imagine if you most an item to a PST file, you can still recover 
it via the menu command. But I could be wrong.

At any rate, X days after you moved the item to the PST file, it will 
*definitely* be gone from the server, and that's the end of that. 
(Although if the data was on the server a long time, it's probably on 
backup tape somewhere...)

>> (I never, ever, use PST files!)
> 
> Well yes, you're the IT guy, so by definition the company limit on 
> Exchange mailbox size is probably the size of your mailbox plus a bit :-)

The size limit is 500MB. My mailbox is 108KB, currently.

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> I would imagine if you most an item to a PST file, you can still recover 
> it via the menu command. But I could be wrong.

Oh I didn't know about that, I found this after some searching:

http://office.microsoft.com/en-gb/outlook/HA011165281033.aspx?pid=CL100626971033

Seems our server keeps stuff for 7 days, and yes it works for *moved* 
messages too.  So in this case I think a PST backup once a week should be 
sufficient here...

> The size limit is 500MB. My mailbox is 108KB, currently.

I guess you don't have too many emails to keep then.

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>> I would imagine if you most an item to a PST file, you can still 
>> recover it via the menu command. But I could be wrong.
> 
> Oh I didn't know about that, I found this after some searching:
> 
> http://office.microsoft.com/en-gb/outlook/HA011165281033.aspx?pid=CL100626971033 
> 
> Seems our server keeps stuff for 7 days, and yes it works for *moved* 
> messages too.  So in this case I think a PST backup once a week should 
> be sufficient here...

Heh, nice to know.

>> The size limit is 500MB. My mailbox is 108KB, currently.
> 
> I guess you don't have too many emails to keep then.

Yeah, pretty much. ;-)

Let's face it, who talks to me?

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> Let's face it, who talks to me?

I would have thought that as the IT guy for the UK you would have received 
quite a lot of emails containing important information, which would be worth 
keeping.

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