[If you want to enjoy the rest of today, don't bother reading this post...]



I left my house at 8AM this morning. My mother's car was still parked on 
the driveway. She should have been at work an hour ago. Instead, she was 
laying in bed, SOBBING UNCONTROLLABLY. The women was inconsolable. I 
repeat: inconsolable.

Have you ever seen a grown women reduced to the hysterical crying of a 
small child? It isn't pretty.

And what has brought this on, you ask? It seems that after months of 
torment, she can no longer actually bring herself to set foot inside her 
employer's premises. She woke at 2AM, and spent several hours trying to 
convince herself to go to work. But several hours later when I awoke, 
she had given up trying. The thought of returning to that place was 
simply too horrifying.

My mother is, understandably, terrified about losing her job. My 
piffling wages would make a very small dent in the running costs of our 
house. And my mother seems convinced that she will never find another 
job that mays anywhere near the same wages. But after months and months 
of constant pressure, criticism, harassment, bullying, shouting, 
threatening letters, lies and manipulation, she simply can't take any more.

I don't think she's decided to quit. I don't think she's *decided* 
anything. I think it's more that she has lost the capacity for rational 
thought. There are no thoughts any more, only fear. Months of sleep 
deprevation and endless stress have finally crippled her brain beyond 
the point of normal functioning.

All of this makes me very, very angry. You may say "that's life", but I 
do not accept that. It SHOULD NOT BE LEGAL for a commercial entity to 
deliberately DESTROY A HUMAN BEING. It shouldn't be legal to prevent 
somebody from eating and drinking. It shoesn't be legal to threaten to 
fire them unless they stop taking time off sick. And it should NOT be 
legal to make their lives hell in the hope that they'll quit and you 
won't have to keep paying them.

Sometimes I get so angry I want to actually drive over there and give 
those people... not so much a piece of my mind as a piece of my FIST. 
And I'm not a violent person. I am a shy, quiet person. But this crap 
has crossed the line!

...Of course, all that will happen with that plan is that I'll spend the 
rest of my life in jail. Which would pretty much suck. And besides, the 
managers are only doing what they've been told to do; "get rid of the 
expensive employeers, it doesn't matter how".

So, does anybody have any *constructive* suggestions for how to remedy 
this unholy situation?

(UK law applies, remember.)

PS. No, the union doesn't appear to be especially helpful.

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I was faced with a similar situation a while back. This was also onset 
by harassment at work (or further back...) Basically I lost all ability 
to make any kind of decision. It seemed there was no decision *to* make 
because all directions lead to the same grim outcome. Action seemed 
pointless and this was terrifying. (Bullies like to make people feel 
this way.) I sometimes compare it to a deer trapped in a car's 
headlights. Over time it progressed to where I was even afraid to leave 
the house, and eventually to schizophrenia now managed by medication.

Money and the influence people can have over you because of it can be 
very frightening.

Mike

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news:4b028f50$1@news.povray.org...

> So, does anybody have any *constructive* suggestions for how to remedy 
> this unholy situation?

She needs professional advice. Workplace bullying is a very serious problem 
that random strangers on the internet won't solve.
The UK has an official Conciliation service with a hotline. You should start 
here.
http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1864
http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=797

There are also some private charities running their own hotlines.
http://www.nationalbullyinghelpline.co.uk/ (there are some links at the end 
of the page)

G.

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>> So, does anybody have any *constructive* suggestions for how to remedy 
>> this unholy situation?
> 
> She needs professional advice. Workplace bullying is a very serious 
> problem that random strangers on the internet won't solve.

Agreed.

Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, the union isn't being especially 
helpful. (Seems the union membership fees were totally worth it then...)

> The UK has an official Conciliation service with a hotline. You should 
> start here.
> http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1864
> http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=797
> 
> There are also some private charities running their own hotlines.
> http://www.nationalbullyinghelpline.co.uk/ (there are some links at the 
> end of the page)

The problem is not so much "bullying" in the usual sense of somebody 
with something personal against you. It's more that the whole company 
has decided to mistreat its employees.

Around about the time the financial sector imploded and the jobs marked 
evapourated, the company started being really aggressive towards its 
employees. I mean, after all, if you don't like it, what ya gonna do? 
Quit? You can't GET another job. So now we can abuse you all we like and 
you can't do anything about it. Ha ha.

Later, the strategy appears to have changed. Now they actually *want* 
people to leave. They seemed to be deliberately making the job as 
unpleasent as possible to encourage people to walk out. (If they make 
you redundant, they have to pay. If you storm out... much cheaper.)

My mother is a highly experienced engineer, and she earns quite a lot of 
money. She's an expensive employee, so they want rid of her. Since 
they've been unable to make her quit, now it seems they're trying to 
make out she's incompetent so they can fire her.

We're not talking about one manager with a power complex. We're talking 
about a systematic plan to save the company money by pushing people out 
the door on the cheap.

(When she was sent to see an occupational psychologist, he said that 
while he's contracted to work for about 80 major companies, lately 85% 
of his workload had been employees of this one company. So it's not just 
my mum here.)

The company, of course, will claim that the people standing over my 
mother, constantly watching her, constantly having a go at her, is all 
part of a "constructive program of continuous employee training and 
development" and that they're not bullying her at all. I don't know - if 
you can see that an employee is stressed out, would you spend 20 minutes 
screaming at them at the top of your voice? Does that sound constructive 
to you?

I don't really know what the right course of action here is. But 
certainly this kind of behaviour is unacceptable, and should not be legal.

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> My mother is a highly experienced engineer, and she earns quite a lot of 
> money.

She should be in a favourable position to move jobs then, plenty of 
professional older workers move companies, and don't believe all the hype 
about there being no jobs at the moment - monster sends me about 10-20 new 
jobs every day for quite a narrow area of engineering.

> We're not talking about one manager with a power complex. We're talking 
> about a systematic plan to save the company money by pushing people out 
> the door on the cheap.

A lot of companies have been doing that recently, she shouldn't feel it's 
anything personal against her.

> The company, of course, will claim that the people standing over my 
> mother, constantly watching her, constantly having a go at her, is all 
> part of a "constructive program of continuous employee training and 
> development" and that they're not bullying her at all. I don't know - if 
> you can see that an employee is stressed out, would you spend 20 minutes 
> screaming at them at the top of your voice? Does that sound constructive 
> to you?

No, it sounds like she should make a complaint.  At the very least she 
should be recording all such incidents.

> I don't really know what the right course of action here is. But certainly 
> this kind of behaviour is unacceptable, and should not be legal.

There are plenty of avenues to take when making complaints.  I would do it 
internally first, if it's a large company it will definitely have an 
internal procedure which should probably follow first.  If that bears no 
fruit then there are plenty of external options, like tribunals and even 
going to court.

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>> My mother is a highly experienced engineer, and she earns quite a lot 
>> of money.
> 
> She should be in a favourable position to move jobs then, plenty of 
> professional older workers move companies, and don't believe all the 
> hype about there being no jobs at the moment - monster sends me about 
> 10-20 new jobs every day for quite a narrow area of engineering.

Ah, but that's the great thing about monopolies, isn't it? Your skills 
are only relevant to the company that holds the monopoly.

Besides, who's going to hire an old fat women approaching retirement age?

>> We're 
>> talking about a systematic plan to save the company money by pushing 
>> people out the door on the cheap.
> 
> A lot of companies have been doing that recently, she shouldn't feel 
> it's anything personal against her.

You and I know it isn't personal. When you haven't slept for several 
months consecutively, it feels like the world itself is against you 
personally.

>> I don't know - 
>> if you can see that an employee is stressed out, would you spend 20 
>> minutes screaming at them at the top of your voice? Does that sound 
>> constructive to you?
> 
> No, it sounds like she should make a complaint.  At the very least she 
> should be recording all such incidents.

When the company itself has decided they want to get rid of you, is 
complaining to the company really going to get results?

Who do you complain about? It's not just one person, it's the whole system.

(I'm not sure whether she's already tried this route. I'd have to go 
find out.)

> There are plenty of avenues to take when making complaints.  I would do 
> it internally first, if it's a large company it will definitely have an 
> internal procedure which should probably follow first.  If that bears no 
> fruit then there are plenty of external options, like tribunals and even 
> going to court.

Oh, they definitely have an internal procedure. I don't know whether 
she's tried it yet. She's tried talking to the union, but they seem to 
be being almost as stroppy with her as the company itself. Not sure what 
else there is. But watching my mother degenerate into a living zombie, I 
find myself thinking somebody should be taking these people to court... 
It surely *can't* be legal to make somebody physically ill.

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> Ah, but that's the great thing about monopolies, isn't it? Your skills are 
> only relevant to the company that holds the monopoly.

Seems unlikely, she works for BT IIRC?  It's not like there aren't any other 
companies doing what BT do.

> Besides, who's going to hire an old fat women approaching retirement age?

As I said, I have seen lots of old professional people switch companies, 
I've even seen some take early retirement and then become consultants 
working for the company they left!  If she is really that close to 
retirement then has she considered just retiring now?  Is it really worth 
all the phyiscal and mental pain for having more money for a couple of 
years?  If she's spent a whole career as a highly experienced engineer she 
can't be that badly off.

> When the company itself has decided they want to get rid of you, is 
> complaining to the company really going to get results?

Yes, because usually the people handling the complaints are independent of 
the people making such decisions about getting rid of people.  A lot of 
companies employ 3rd party moderators to assist in such internal complain 
procedures, I'm not sure if that is law or not.

> Who do you complain about? It's not just one person, it's the whole 
> system.

Well if people are doing things like shouting at you for 20 minutes or 
sending threatening letters, then complain about them.  If it's not their 
fault (eg they were told to by their boss) then complain about them instead.

> Not sure what else there is.

http://www.employmenttribunals.gov.uk/

Or go to court.

But be sure you know your rights and have proof of the employer acting 
illegally before you go down those route.  Having evidence of a failed 
internal complaint procedure will greatly help.

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>> Ah, but that's the great thing about monopolies, isn't it? Your skills 
>> are only relevant to the company that holds the monopoly.
> 
> Seems unlikely, she works for BT IIRC?  It's not like there aren't any 
> other companies doing what BT do.

Uh... yes it is?

>> Besides, who's going to hire an old fat women approaching retirement age?
> 
> As I said, I have seen lots of old professional people switch companies, 
> I've even seen some take early retirement and then become consultants 
> working for the company they left!

Heh. Sounds pretty impressive...

> If she is really that close to 
> retirement then has she considered just retiring now?  Is it really 
> worth all the phyiscal and mental pain for having more money for a 
> couple of years?

Trouble is, when she does eventually retire, she'll be financially 
destitute. By staying in work, she can put that off for a few more years.

> If she's spent a whole career as a highly experienced 
> engineer she can't be that badly off.

Actually, she's in an almost constant state of financial disaster than 
ranges from mild to severe depending on which month you ask.

> Well if people are doing things like shouting at you for 20 minutes or 
> sending threatening letters, then complain about them.  If it's not 
> their fault (eg they were told to by their boss) then complain about 
> them instead.

> http://www.employmenttribunals.gov.uk/
> 
> Or go to court.
> 
> But be sure you know your rights and have proof of the employer acting 
> illegally before you go down those route.  Having evidence of a failed 
> internal complaint procedure will greatly help.

Trouble is, it's all going to boil down to "we say vs they say". It's 
not like you can *prove* that somebody shouted at you. (And it's lot 
like we have records of the last 2 years or so of abuse.)

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>> Seems unlikely, she works for BT IIRC?  It's not like there aren't any 
>> other companies doing what BT do.
>
> Uh... yes it is?

You don't have to tell me exactly which part of BT she works for, but it 
seems *really* unlikely that no other company needs those skills.

> Trouble is, when she does eventually retire, she'll be financially 
> destitute.

Doesn't she have a pension with her company?  Working almost your entire 
life as a professional usually gets you a pretty healthy pension.  I was 
lucky to get in on my company's pension scheme just before they closed it 
off (as did a lot of companies recently), so in theory if I work for 40 
years with them I will get a pension that is equal to 2/3 of my final 
salary, that sort of scheme seemed quite common up until recently.

>> My mother is a highly experienced engineer, and she earns quite a lot of 
>> money.
...
> Actually, she's in an almost constant state of financial disaster

The above two statements don't really add up.

> Trouble is, it's all going to boil down to "we say vs they say". It's not 
> like you can *prove* that somebody shouted at you.

You can prove threatening letters though, and you can at least show the log 
you've made of verbal attacks, plus some hard evidence that the internal 
complaints procedure didn't work.  If someone witnessed the unreasonable 
verbal attacks then say that too.

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>>> Seems unlikely, she works for BT IIRC?  It's not like there aren't 
>>> any other companies doing what BT do.
>>
>> Uh... yes it is?
> 
> You don't have to tell me exactly which part of BT she works for, but it 
> seems *really* unlikely that no other company needs those skills.

Last time I checked, BT ownes the entire telephone network. Nobody else 
is allowed to touch it.

>> Trouble is, when she does eventually retire, she'll be financially 
>> destitute.
> 
> Doesn't she have a pension with her company?

Sure. It's just not very big.

> Working almost your entire 
> life as a professional usually gets you a pretty healthy pension.

She's only worked for BT for about 15 years.

>>> My mother is a highly experienced engineer, and she earns quite a lot 
>>> of money.
> ...
>> Actually, she's in an almost constant state of financial disaster
> 
> The above two statements don't really add up.

I mean she earns a lot more than the other staff there. In absolute 
terms it's not a big amount though.

>> Trouble is, it's all going to boil down to "we say vs they say". It's 
>> not like you can *prove* that somebody shouted at you.
> 
> You can prove threatening letters though

All the letter says is "this is your final warning, if your performance 
statistics do not improve, you will be fired". Which is legal, 
technically. (The fact that the performance targets are impossible is 
another matter...)

> and you can at least show the log you've made of verbal attacks

Only if you log them. (It's a bit late to start now...)

> plus some hard evidence that the internal complaints procedure didn't work.

That could work.

> If someone witnessed the unreasonable verbal attacks then say that too.

You'd need to convince a witness to come forward.

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