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Has anybody played it?
I've been playing it for a little while, now. quite fun. Very nice
graphically. Physics seems relatively good, but it is very challenging
to drive without assists.
Most of the car interiors look pretty close to the real thing. Nice work
on reflections and shadows/etc...
--
~Mike
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Mike Raiford wrote:
> Has anybody played it?
>
> I've been playing it for a little while, now. quite fun. Very nice
> graphically. Physics seems relatively good, but it is very challenging
> to drive without assists.
>
> Most of the car interiors look pretty close to the real thing. Nice work
> on reflections and shadows/etc...
>
>
Is that the new one? Played the demo on a friends PS3, found that the
steering physics felt just fine from a joystick, but with a wheel,
pedals and shift stick it just felt sloppy. The force feedback made the
steering wheel bounce rapidly from side to side, which made the car
wobble so much worse than anything either of us had ever actually
driven. And I learned to drive in a beat up pickup truck!
Could have been just the demo had that problem, but since he is a racing
sim fan, the inability to use the wheel at all was a breaking point.
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Sabrina Kilian <ski### [at] vt edu> wrote:
> Is that the new one? Played the demo on a friends PS3, found that the
> steering physics felt just fine from a joystick, but with a wheel,
> pedals and shift stick it just felt sloppy. The force feedback made the
> steering wheel bounce rapidly from side to side, which made the car
> wobble so much worse than anything either of us had ever actually
> driven.
I really like the extra feeling a force feedback wheel controller gives
(on a game with good support for it, of course).
I have never driven a real car (I don't even own a driver's license),
much less a racing car, but nevertheless with a good game the wheel
controller can add a lot to the realism, and actually the force feedback
can aid in the driving. For example when driving normally the wheel will
tend to center itself (as I assume is the case with a real car). If you
drive fast enough in a curve, and your turning speed exceeds the critical
limit that you start drifting, suddenly the wheel will get "loose", so
you get a physical feedback exactly when you start drifting, which helps
you immediately compensate. Likewise when the car stops drifting and the
tires get a grip, the force feedback returns, giving you a feeling of when
the drifting ends.
You can't get that with any other controller.
--
- Warp
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On 10/16/2009 2:43 PM, Sabrina Kilian wrote:
> Is that the new one? Played the demo on a friends PS3, found that the
> steering physics felt just fine from a joystick, but with a wheel,
> pedals and shift stick it just felt sloppy. The force feedback made the
> steering wheel bounce rapidly from side to side, which made the car
> wobble so much worse than anything either of us had ever actually
> driven. And I learned to drive in a beat up pickup truck!
Heh. I'm using a wheel on the PC, but I have an older FFB wheel, and
while it is touchy, I eventually got used to it. There's a lot of
options on configuring the wheel in the game, so it could be
misconfigured, I did have to tweak some settings to get everything to
work reliably.
It could also have something to do with the default setup of the cars. I
noticed many of them had toe-out, which will make the car very twitchy
in the straights.
>
> Could have been just the demo had that problem, but since he is a racing
> sim fan, the inability to use the wheel at all was a breaking point.
--
~Mike
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Mike Raiford wrote:
> On 10/16/2009 2:43 PM, Sabrina Kilian wrote:
>
>> Is that the new one? Played the demo on a friends PS3, found that the
>> steering physics felt just fine from a joystick, but with a wheel,
>> pedals and shift stick it just felt sloppy. The force feedback made the
>> steering wheel bounce rapidly from side to side, which made the car
>> wobble so much worse than anything either of us had ever actually
>> driven. And I learned to drive in a beat up pickup truck!
>
> Heh. I'm using a wheel on the PC, but I have an older FFB wheel, and
> while it is touchy, I eventually got used to it. There's a lot of
> options on configuring the wheel in the game, so it could be
> misconfigured, I did have to tweak some settings to get everything to
> work reliably.
>
> It could also have something to do with the default setup of the cars. I
> noticed many of them had toe-out, which will make the car very twitchy
> in the straights.
>
Did you use the FFB wheel with this game? Could have been the demo
version just didn't manage it right, or that PC got it better.
It wasn't that FFB was broken directly, it hit when you expected it and
resisted turning at the right times. And the wheel worked fine, self
calibrating and everything. It was the two combined that was a mess. The
feedback for resistance was enough to push the wheel about 5 to 10
degrees the other direction. Which was enough to trigger the resistance
to turning, and so push the wheel back the other direction. Letting go
of the wheel at low speed and just touching the throttle caused the car
to just zig-zag down the track. Only way to fix it in the demo was to
either set the wheel deadzone to about 10 degrees, which kills any fine
control, or to kill the FFB because if you just turned strength down it
didn't resist less it just pulsed the FFB motor in shorter bursts.
Toe-out, over or under steer per the car wasn't really an issue, or so
said the car guy. Me, I can watch games like Gran Turismo 5, I can't
play them.
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> calibrating and everything. It was the two combined that was a mess. The
> feedback for resistance was enough to push the wheel about 5 to 10
> degrees the other direction. Which was enough to trigger the resistance
> to turning, and so push the wheel back the other direction. Letting go
> of the wheel at low speed and just touching the throttle caused the car
> to just zig-zag down the track.
This is due to the small time delay between the game signalling some force
feedback and it actually happening on the wheel. It's classic Pilot Induced
Oscillation, only in this case the game software is the "pilot". Most
serious sims have a variable to inform the game of this time delay, the sim
then "predicts" the FF this far ahead and feeds that to the wheel instead of
what it thinks it should do at that exact moment. If you look on the forums
of serious racing sims you will see loads of threads related to the best
settings for particular wheels.
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scott wrote:
>> calibrating and everything. It was the two combined that was a mess. The
>> feedback for resistance was enough to push the wheel about 5 to 10
>> degrees the other direction. Which was enough to trigger the resistance
>> to turning, and so push the wheel back the other direction. Letting go
>> of the wheel at low speed and just touching the throttle caused the car
>> to just zig-zag down the track.
>
> This is due to the small time delay between the game signalling some
> force feedback and it actually happening on the wheel. It's classic
> Pilot Induced Oscillation, only in this case the game software is the
> "pilot". Most serious sims have a variable to inform the game of this
> time delay, the sim then "predicts" the FF this far ahead and feeds that
> to the wheel instead of what it thinks it should do at that exact
> moment. If you look on the forums of serious racing sims you will see
> loads of threads related to the best settings for particular wheels.
>
>
>
Oh, I know that situation well. Too many hours spent on flight-sims,
where a little spike in CPU usage would result in some very wild
maneuvers. Since it isn't my PS3, or wheel, I have no idea if the system
offered any of the settings I would expect. The NFS:Shift demo offered
just dead-zone and FF strength. I assume that my friend, being a gear
head, would have checked other calibration options if there were any on
the system.
Mike and I have been talking cross point since the start, I fear. Me
about the PS3 demo I played for 5 minutes, and him about the finished PC
version he has been enjoying. I suspect they are completely different
games, at this point.
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