...is like winning the special olympics.

I'm retarded.

I've been down this road before, so I certainly knew what to expect.  But 
every once in awhile, it would be nice to be surprised.  But instead, it 
always seems to be an excercise in futility and frustration.

In an earlier post, I mentioned the installation of a "Michigan Left Turn" 
on a major roadway in my area, and how it essentially makes it impossible 
for a bicycle to cross the road.  So, instead of just griping to my friends 
and other bicyclists, I decided to actually email the Michigan Department of 
Transportation (and subsequently gripe here too.  ;-) ).

"What is a Michigan Left Turn?" 
http://www.michiganhighways.org/indepth/michigan_left.html

The difference in this case is that the cross-traffic portion has been 
completely eliminated.  Where there used to be a place to directly cross the 
road, whether by foot, automobile, or bicycle, there is now only a ditch. To 
get across the road, you need to turn right, travel 1/4 mile, turn left, 
travel 1/4 mile, then turn right. They have done studies that show that this 
cuts down on automobile accidents, and whether that's true or not, I don't 
argue that with them.  In my discussion, I tried several different ways of 
making the point that they have eliminated a safe passage for bicyclists and 
pedestrians.  Their response?  "...given the high traffic counts and traffic 
speeds I am not aware of any safe way to have an at grade pedestrians 
crossing. In the absence of non-motorized pathways bicycles are expected to 
use the roadway as motorist vehicles do."  How about a path in the median of 
the road?  Like there used to be before it was replaced with a ditch?

So now bicyclists are expected to pedal down a busy road, in traffic, for 
1/4 mile in each direction, on a road that they admit isn't even safe for a 
pedestrian to walk across.  If you're a 15 year-old boy, are you going to 
take the direct (through the ditch) route, or travel 1/2 mile out of your 
way?

Sigh...

Post a reply to this message

On 10/12/2009 2:14 PM, Jeremy "UncleHoot" Praay wrote:
> If you're a 15 year-old boy, are you going to
> take the direct (through the ditch) route, or travel 1/2 mile out of your
> way?
>
> Sigh...

Most 15 year-old boys could use the exercise.

Post a reply to this message

On 10/12/2009 11:50 PM, SharkD wrote:
> On 10/12/2009 2:14 PM, Jeremy "UncleHoot" Praay wrote:
>> If you're a 15 year-old boy, are you going to
>> take the direct (through the ditch) route, or travel 1/2 mile out of your
>> way?
>>
>> Sigh...
>
> Most 15 year-old boys could use the exercise.

Ooops. Hit 'Send' to quick.

Seriously, bicycling and walking along busy roads generally sucks all 
across the US. What I hate most is when a sidewalk will suddenly end and 
you are forced to have to walk in the grass or across people's lawns.

There's a path I sometimes walk to the doctor's office. 75% of the way 
there's a sidewalk. Until about half way there there are sidewalks on 
both sides. Then, it suddenly switches to only one side (the other side 
in my case) of the road for no reason. At about 3/4 of the way the 
sidewalk stops completely, only to begin again about a 100 yards from 
the hospital (at which point it switches to the other side of the road 
again!!).

People's yards where there are no sidewalks look like crap from being 
walked over all the time. I don't know why the residents don't decide to 
install sidewalks. Maybe it's to serve as a "negro barrier zone" between 
neighboring, more populated areas.

-Mike

Post a reply to this message

"SharkD" <mik### [at] gmailcom> wrote in message 
news:4ad3fc0c$1@news.povray.org...
>
> Seriously, bicycling and walking along busy roads generally sucks all 
> across the US. What I hate most is when a sidewalk will suddenly end and 
> you are forced to have to walk in the grass or across people's lawns.

I really can't complain too much about bicycling in my area.  There aren't 
very many paved roads, but the ones that are paved are generally well cared 
for.  And if you take time to plan your route, it's not too difficult to 
avoid the major roads.  Obviously this section not withstanding.  And that's 
what really frustrates me.  Simply crossing the busy road is no longer an 
option.

> There's a path I sometimes walk to the doctor's office. 75% of the way 
> there's a sidewalk. Until about half way there there are sidewalks on both 
> sides. Then, it suddenly switches to only one side (the other side in my 
> case) of the road for no reason. At about 3/4 of the way the sidewalk 
> stops completely, only to begin again about a 100 yards from the hospital 
> (at which point it switches to the other side of the road again!!).
>
> People's yards where there are no sidewalks look like crap from being 
> walked over all the time. I don't know why the residents don't decide to 
> install sidewalks. Maybe it's to serve as a "negro barrier zone" between 
> neighboring, more populated areas.
>
> -Mike

I some, if not most, cities/towns, the sidewalk is the responsibility of the 
home-owner.  I've been in places where it cuts out for two yards, then 
starts back up, then cuts out, then starts up, then cuts out.

As I said in an earlier post, the US is very car-centric.  In spite of 
feigned appreciation for alternative forms of transportation, no one is 
really interested.  "Why do we need that?  Don't you have a car?"  And on 
that note, I don't ride my bike as a means of transportation.  I ride for 
pleasure and exercise, as do most bicyclists.  They probably understand 
that, and obviously, that doesn't help my case.

Post a reply to this message

> The difference in this case is that the cross-traffic portion has been 
> completely eliminated.  Where there used to be a place to directly cross 
> the road, whether by foot, automobile, or bicycle, there is now only a 
> ditch.

> "...given the high traffic counts and traffic speeds I am not aware of any 
> safe way to have an at grade pedestrians crossing.

Usually you just stick a green "walk" light that comes on when the cars have 
red.

Is the new ditch impassable on foot?  If you could pass it would it be 
possible to cross each carriage-way while the light for the cars is on red?

Post a reply to this message

On 10/13/2009 9:21 AM, Jeremy "UncleHoot" Praay wrote:
> I really can't complain too much about bicycling in my area.  There aren't
> very many paved roads, but the ones that are paved are generally well cared
> for.  And if you take time to plan your route, it's not too difficult to
> avoid the major roads.  Obviously this section not withstanding.  And that's
> what really frustrates me.  Simply crossing the busy road is no longer an
> option.

In the last few years my city has started adding bike lanes on certain 
roads. However, I feel these are also geared more towards recreational 
riders, as they only add to convenience if you intend to ride for long 
distances.

-Mike

Post a reply to this message

"scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote in message 
news:4ad48adc$1@news.povray.org...
>
> Is the new ditch impassable on foot?  If you could pass it would it be 
> possible to cross each carriage-way while the light for the cars is on 
> red?
>

For the purposes of this discussion, I modified an existing digram from the 
Web (in blatant disregard for copyright :-p ): 
http://www.beantoad.com/newimages/michigan_left.gif

It's not impassable, but it is is a ditch, not mowed, and sometimes 
containis water.  There is no stop light, and never will be.  It's the type 
of road where cars aren't supposed to have to stop.  Ever.  But it's also 
not a limited access freeway, by any means.  It's just a divided hi-way.

Post a reply to this message

> For the purposes of this discussion, I modified an existing digram from 
> the Web (in blatant disregard for copyright :-p ): 
> http://www.beantoad.com/newimages/michigan_left.gif
>
> It's not impassable, but it is is a ditch, not mowed, and sometimes 
> containis water.  There is no stop light, and never will be.

Oh I see, so the cars joining from the bottom of your diagram just have to 
wait for a big enough gap in the traffic to join?  Sounds pretty hard if you 
want to immediately get over to the left lane with everyone else doing, err, 
hang on what is the speed limit on this road?

> It's the type of road where cars aren't supposed to have to stop.  Ever. 
> But it's also not a limited access freeway, by any means.

I think the difference here is that we don't have those sorts of roads 
(where the cars never stop) in cities.  Outside of cities, sure, but they 
would have a speed limit of 70 mph and never have any roads joining without 
proper on/off ramps, and definitely no cars ever leaving/joining from the 
fast lane.  Within cities roads always have stop lights every so often, 
which gives plenty of opportunity for pedestrians and cyclists to cross.

Post a reply to this message

Jeremy "UncleHoot" Praay wrote:

> So now bicyclists are expected to pedal down a busy road, in traffic, for 
> 1/4 mile in each direction, on a road that they admit isn't even safe for a 
> pedestrian to walk across.  If you're a 15 year-old boy, are you going to 
> take the direct (through the ditch) route, or travel 1/2 mile out of your 
> way?

Nothing will happen until five or six people get killed trying to cross 
at that specific spot.

Of course, with the way the Michigan economy is going, there may not be 
any motorists in a few years...

Regards,
John

Post a reply to this message

"John VanSickle" <evi### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message 
news:4ad70a80$1@news.povray.org...
> Jeremy "UncleHoot" Praay wrote:
>
> Nothing will happen

(fixed your post)

> Of course, with the way the Michigan economy is going, there may not be 
> any motorists in a few years...

It does suck right now.  I'm glad to have a good job, that's for sure.

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