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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Video Game FPS vs RPG
Date: 14 Jul 2009 13:13:34
Message: <4a5cbcbe@news.povray.org>
clipka wrote:
> That's some other strange association people have: RPG == fantasy.
> SciFi-RGBs have proven this connotation to be wrong.
         ^^^

You know you've been ray-tracing too long when...

> called "WoB: World of Bureaucracy" :D

http://dragonstuff.com/images/gallery/bw/full/houses_and_humans.jpg

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "We'd like you to back-port all the changes in 2.0
    back to version 1.0."
   "We've done that already. We call it 2.0."


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From: Warp
Subject: Re: Video Game FPS vs RPG
Date: 14 Jul 2009 13:42:30
Message: <4a5cc386@news.povray.org>
Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> How does one normally handle this? I would think it might be best to cycle 
> through (say) three sets of nearby AI, evaluating a third of the AIs and 
> taking up the whole amount of time. It's not like real humans don't have a 
> 60ms delay in their reaction times. :-)

  Yeah, I suppose the game doesn't need to execute the AI routines for
every single AI entity in the entire game at each frame, but each entity
could indeed get its turn eg. each 10th frame or so (the in-between frames
are simply linearly interpolated, if the action it's performing needs to
be continuous).

  However, it can still get pretty complicated, especially when the number
of AI entities grows. Think about a real-time strategy game with armies
consisting of thousands of individual soldiers...

-- 
                                                          - Warp


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From: Warp
Subject: Re: Video Game FPS vs RPG
Date: 14 Jul 2009 13:47:35
Message: <4a5cc4b7@news.povray.org>
clipka <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> That's some other strange association people have: RPG == fantasy.

> SciFi-RGBs have proven this connotation to be wrong.

  Well, scifi is a peculiar kind of fantasy, where you have races (well,
more precisely species), jobs, advanced technology (which, when advanced
enough, is indistinguishable from magic, as the saying goes), fighting
(usually between spaceships rather than between characters, but sometimes
also between characters), fantastical creatures, and so on.

  I suppose that what you meant is that RPGs are usually associated with
so-called sword-and-sorcery fantasy and high fantasy.

-- 
                                                          - Warp


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From: Patrick Elliott
Subject: Re: Video Game FPS vs RPG
Date: 14 Jul 2009 13:50:48
Message: <4a5cc578$1@news.povray.org>
Darren New wrote:
> I've been amused when I noticed (for example) that the AIs in the older 
> thief games keep moving when they're far away, but they stop walking. As 
> in, they'll just skate back and forth until you get close. There's only 
> a couple places in the game with line of sight straight enough to see 
> it, tho.
> 
Less to do with AI than with animation limitations. The more things you 
have moving at the "best" rate, the harder your hardware needs to work. 
EQ2 you can adjust this from "everything is moving at best frame rate 
and best graphics resolution, but no machine in the universe will give 
you better than a frame rate of like 0.001 fps doing this", to, "Stuff 
uses almost no animation, textures look worse than Ultima VII, when 
games ran at 640x480 and 8-bit color, and you can't see more than 20 
meters in front of you." lol

In general, since you never see more than about 20 people, and 20 mobs, 
and most don't move around a lot in EQ2, you can place the animation on 
high, as well as the textures, and not take much of a hit. I tried 
setting mine far higher on the new card I have, (which is well past what 
was available at the time it came out), and only got brief lag in 
"certain" stages of combat, or when moving from a low mob part of a 
region to one where I could see a "lot" of them. But, its a basic 
optimization that "position", and "activity" be computed, which is not 
terribly high cost, compared to loading all the textures, animating the 
skeleton/mesh, etc.


-- 
void main () {
   If Schrödingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
     if version = "Vista" {
       call slow_by_half();
       call DRM_everything();
     }
     call functional_code();
   }
   else
     call crash_windows();
}

<A HREF='http://www.daz3d.com/index.php?refid=16130551'>Get 3D Models, 
3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>


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From: Warp
Subject: Re: Video Game FPS vs RPG
Date: 14 Jul 2009 13:55:21
Message: <4a5cc689@news.povray.org>
nemesis <nam### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> I'd rather watch a virtual aquarium all day long or even play Wii Sports than
> watch this virtual soap.

  Btw, 20th Century Fox has bought the rights to make a The Sims movie.

  This is honestly something I cannot comprehend. The Sims has no story,
and even its setting is mundane: Raise a family, get rich, build a house,
advance in your career. There are no distinguishing or peculiar features
in the game series. (Ok there are a few, such as the occasional alien
child, but those things are not the main idea in the game nor something you
could build a movie on.)

  How can you make a movie about The Sims? Almost *any* boring, realistic,
almost documentary-style drama could be a "The Sims movie".

  The only other alternative I can think of is not making a movie about
the game universe itself, but about people playing the game (there are
a few movies like that). However, I can't figure out how you could make
an interesting movie about people who play The Sims. There's nothing
special about people who play that game specifically.

  OTOH, given Hollywood's custom of making game movies which have absolutely
nothing to do with the game itself (apart from some names and a very loosely
similar setting), I'm not wondering that they would do this. Especially in
this case, as said, almost *anything* could pass as "The Sims movie", so
why not.

-- 
                                                          - Warp


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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Video Game FPS vs RPG
Date: 14 Jul 2009 14:43:35
Message: <4a5cd1d7$1@news.povray.org>
Patrick Elliott wrote:
> Less to do with AI than with animation limitations. The more things you 
> have moving at the "best" rate, the harder your hardware needs to work. 

Is that really true? I thought the whole (visible) scene got pumped out to 
the graphics card on every frame. Hence the need for AGPx8 and such.

Or are you talking about the CPU calculating angles of elbow and knee joints 
and such?


-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "We'd like you to back-port all the changes in 2.0
    back to version 1.0."
   "We've done that already. We call it 2.0."


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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Video Game FPS vs RPG
Date: 14 Jul 2009 14:46:17
Message: <4a5cd279$1@news.povray.org>
Warp wrote:
>   How can you make a movie about The Sims? Almost *any* boring, realistic,
> almost documentary-style drama could be a "The Sims movie".

http://strangerhood.com/archive/?id=85

You could make it a meta-movie, where the characters don't know they're Sims 
but the audience does.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "We'd like you to back-port all the changes in 2.0
    back to version 1.0."
   "We've done that already. We call it 2.0."


Post a reply to this message

From: Warp
Subject: Re: Video Game FPS vs RPG
Date: 14 Jul 2009 15:09:46
Message: <4a5cd7fa@news.povray.org>
Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Patrick Elliott wrote:
> > Less to do with AI than with animation limitations. The more things you 
> > have moving at the "best" rate, the harder your hardware needs to work. 

> Is that really true? I thought the whole (visible) scene got pumped out to 
> the graphics card on every frame. Hence the need for AGPx8 and such.

  It may have something to do with LODs: When the object is farther away,
it usually will be switched to a version with less triangles. It might also
be that in this case the lowest-resolution LOD models were not animated at
all, and thus the effect you see.

-- 
                                                          - Warp


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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Video Game FPS vs RPG
Date: 14 Jul 2009 15:28:41
Message: <4a5cdc69$1@news.povray.org>
Warp wrote:
>   It may have something to do with LODs: When the object is farther away,
> it usually will be switched to a version with less triangles.

Interesting theory! :-)

I'm kind of thinking it'll be cool when motion capture finally comes to the 
masses. When someone sends out a PDF you can print out, cut up, and tape to 
your clothes, and point a web cam at yourself...

Pretty much everything else is available for free at this point, at least in 
the video rendering path.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "We'd like you to back-port all the changes in 2.0
    back to version 1.0."
   "We've done that already. We call it 2.0."


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: Video Game FPS vs RPG
Date: 14 Jul 2009 23:45:00
Message: <web.4a5d4f9945e8e26c3964e90f0@news.povray.org>
Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> clipka wrote:
> > That's some other strange association people have: RPG == fantasy.
> > SciFi-RGBs have proven this connotation to be wrong.
>          ^^^
>
> You know you've been ray-tracing too long when...

LOL - yeah, that has happened to me multiple times recently; to me, "RPG" is a
7-letter acronym: "RGB<backspace><backspace>PG" :P


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