> I am so damned *angry* that they would **** around with my systems without 
> even bothering to warn me. And the thing is, their fancy, whizzy

Why don't you try and do something about this rather than just writing on 
here what's going on?  If your boss isn't listening go higher up until 
someone does listen.  If nobody listens, document it and do your own thing 
(ie block them from modifying your systems), then they will be forced to 
listen to you.

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>> No. They have all the master passwords; I don't even know what those 
>> are. So they can lock me out, but not the reverse.
> 
> If you have the passwords for the routers, then you have the passwords. :-)

But I *don't* have the passwords for the routers.

> Seriously. You should write up what's going on and send it to your boss, 
> his boss, and so on up the line. Explain they're crashing your systems 
> and you have no control over it, and ask them what the appropriate 
> procedure should be for violation of procedures.

Nobody will care. If I say "they did X, which caused a problem", 
everybody will assume I don't know what I'm talking about.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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scott wrote:
> Why don't you try and do something about this rather than just writing 
> on here what's going on?  If your boss isn't listening go higher up 
> until someone does listen.  If nobody listens, document it and do your 
> own thing (ie block them from modifying your systems), then they will be 
> forced to listen to you.

1. Nobody with any authority cares about my opinion. The general 
assumption is that I know nothing about anything.

2. How did such technically unskilled people get into senior IT 
positions? They did it by being good at company politics. If I try to 
play that game, they will beat me.

3. I have no power to block anything.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 22:37:20 +0100, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>>> No. They have all the master passwords; I don't even know what those  
>>> are. So they can lock me out, but not the reverse.
>>  If you have the passwords for the routers, then you have the  
>> passwords. :-)
>
> But I *don't* have the passwords for the routers.

If you have physical access to the routers, then you make the passwords.


>> Seriously. You should write up what's going on and send it to your  
>> boss, his boss, and so on up the line. Explain they're crashing your  
>> systems and you have no control over it, and ask them what the  
>> appropriate procedure should be for violation of procedures.
>
> Nobody will care. If I say "they did X, which caused a problem",  
> everybody will assume I don't know what I'm talking about.

It does not matter what they assume or even what they choose to do about  
it. What matters is creating a paper trail to cover your own ass.



-- 
FE

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On 26-2-2009 22:38, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> scott wrote:
>> Why don't you try and do something about this rather than just writing 
>> on here what's going on?  If your boss isn't listening go higher up 
>> until someone does listen.  If nobody listens, document it and do your 
>> own thing (ie block them from modifying your systems), then they will 
>> be forced to listen to you.
> 
> 1. Nobody with any authority cares about my opinion. The general 
> assumption is that I know nothing about anything.

As fredrik said, and he is the Nth to do so (N>5), you need a paper 
trail. Part of your job is to look out for violations of the protocols. 
If you don't report them you can be held responsible because you were 
not doing your job. If you report and they choose to ignore that, it is 
their problem.

> 2. How did such technically unskilled people get into senior IT 
> positions? They did it by being good at company politics. If I try to 
> play that game, they will beat me.

It is not about politics, it is about whether your company is violating 
the law or not.

> 3. I have no power to block anything.

You do, but you choose not to use them.

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On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 23:21:01 +0100, Fredrik Eriksson wrote:

> On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 22:37:20 +0100, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>>>> No. They have all the master passwords; I don't even know what those
>>>> are. So they can lock me out, but not the reverse.
>>>  If you have the passwords for the routers, then you have the
>>> passwords. :-)
>>
>> But I *don't* have the passwords for the routers.
> 
> If you have physical access to the routers, then you make the passwords.
> 
> 
>>> Seriously. You should write up what's going on and send it to your
>>> boss, his boss, and so on up the line. Explain they're crashing your
>>> systems and you have no control over it, and ask them what the
>>> appropriate procedure should be for violation of procedures.
>>
>> Nobody will care. If I say "they did X, which caused a problem",
>> everybody will assume I don't know what I'm talking about.
> 
> It does not matter what they assume or even what they choose to do about
> it. What matters is creating a paper trail to cover your own ass.

Exactly what I was going to say.

Andy, write the damn paper trail already!

Jim

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On 2/26/2009 1:38 PM, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> 3. I have no power to block anything.

It's a fact that, when hired to do a job, you have the authority to 
perform it (assuming the person hiring you had the authority to hire 
you, of course).

If they get in the way, do your job anyway, and document it.

If they get mad at you for making necessary changes, even to the point 
of firing you, keep the paper trail for future reference (other 
employers will ask about what happened... having it documented is 
absolutely vital).

-- 
...Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 23:21:01 +0100, Fredrik Eriksson wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 22:37:20 +0100, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>>>>> No. They have all the master passwords; I don't even know what those
>>>>> are. So they can lock me out, but not the reverse.
>>>>  If you have the passwords for the routers, then you have the
>>>> passwords. :-)
>>> But I *don't* have the passwords for the routers.
>> If you have physical access to the routers, then you make the passwords.
>>
>>
>>>> Seriously. You should write up what's going on and send it to your
>>>> boss, his boss, and so on up the line. Explain they're crashing your
>>>> systems and you have no control over it, and ask them what the
>>>> appropriate procedure should be for violation of procedures.
>>> Nobody will care. If I say "they did X, which caused a problem",
>>> everybody will assume I don't know what I'm talking about.
>> It does not matter what they assume or even what they choose to do about
>> it. What matters is creating a paper trail to cover your own ass.
> 
> Exactly what I was going to say.
> 
> Andy, write the damn paper trail already!
> 
> Jim


he has - it's right here... too bad it isn't anything official.

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On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 09:36:53 -0500, Tom Austin wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 23:21:01 +0100, Fredrik Eriksson wrote:
>> 
>>> On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 22:37:20 +0100, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>> No. They have all the master passwords; I don't even know what
>>>>>> those are. So they can lock me out, but not the reverse.
>>>>>  If you have the passwords for the routers, then you have the
>>>>> passwords. :-)
>>>> But I *don't* have the passwords for the routers.
>>> If you have physical access to the routers, then you make the
>>> passwords.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Seriously. You should write up what's going on and send it to your
>>>>> boss, his boss, and so on up the line. Explain they're crashing your
>>>>> systems and you have no control over it, and ask them what the
>>>>> appropriate procedure should be for violation of procedures.
>>>> Nobody will care. If I say "they did X, which caused a problem",
>>>> everybody will assume I don't know what I'm talking about.
>>> It does not matter what they assume or even what they choose to do
>>> about it. What matters is creating a paper trail to cover your own
>>> ass.
>> 
>> Exactly what I was going to say.
>> 
>> Andy, write the damn paper trail already!
>> 
>> Jim
> 
> 
> he has - it's right here... too bad it isn't anything official.

Yeah, that would make it a bit difficult to use in court.  "Yes, I'm 
'Invisible', and 'Orchid XP v3', m'lud."

Jim

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Invisible wrote:
>>> Option #1 is clearly unsatisfactory, and option #2 is likely to get
>>> me yelled at. I love my job...
>>
>> Make your boss earn his money. Ask for an executive decision.
> 
> You're talking about a man who has a packet of sunflower seeds next to
> his desk. (I'm not making this up.) Can you spell "bird brain"?
> 
> In fact, I take that back. It would be an insult to the birds...
> 
> I think my plan of action is to not actually *do* anything at this
> point, just ask IT why this was done.

Don't care about that, just send him an email explaining this all,
writing it as easy and self-explaining to read as possible. Make him do
the decision - you can tell him your opinion, but make sure it's his
call to decide. If you ask from him, you're doing it right, making sure
you're not violating (new) company policies yourself. And do it via
email to make sure it's written down, not just spoken.

Follow these two steps and you are fine:
Step 1: save your own ass properly
Step 2: be profitable for the company

-Aero

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