Warp wrote:

>   Even though I use Visual C++ for my payjob, I have never actually
> made even a single CLI program with it. Let us know your experiences
> in doing that.
> 
>   Visual C++ might look cool and fancy, with all of its graphical user
> interfaces, configuration dialogs, source file editor, context help and
> whatnot, but I bet it will feel very daunting at first. There are so
> many options and buttons that you might feel a bit lost. You might even
> start missing the simple "g++ program.cc" way of compiling a program. ;)

I'm not saying it's bloated, but... EVEN THE *NAME* IS 45 CHARACTERS LONG!

Heh. Seriously. It was a 100 MB download, it took about 25 minutes to 
install (most of that was just the .NET runtime...), and I now have 
something open on my screen that looks very slick and... I... just want 
to compile some code? o_O

>   Oh, and that just for creating CLI programs. You can probably forget
> about creating win32 programs. The learning curve is steep. No, it's not
> steep. It's a vertical wall.

Warp, that's probably the most amusing thing I've ever heard you say. I 
am actually laughout out loud now! :-D

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Warp wrote:

>   Visual C++ might look cool and fancy, with all of its graphical user
> interfaces, configuration dialogs, source file editor, context help and
> whatnot, but I bet it will feel very daunting at first. There are so
> many options and buttons that you might feel a bit lost. You might even
> start missing the simple "g++ program.cc" way of compiling a program. ;)

...still not found a way to compile things yet...

At this rate, I'm going to have to look in the help file. (!!) o_O

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> ...still not found a way to compile things yet...
> 
> At this rate, I'm going to have to look in the help file. (!!) o_O

Ha. Haha. Ahahaha!

Of course, a mere "help file" would be far too easy. No, we must have an 
interactive tutorial... *sigh*

(I was afraid of this!)

Ohhhohhhh... so *that's* how you make it compile?

Hmm, you really have to do stuff in *exactly* the order it wants, don't 
you? Man this thing's inflexible! Oh well, at least I figured out how to 
work it. Heh. Even if it *is* about as intuitive as... something... not 
very intuitive... (First person to say "Haskell" gets a slap!)

Clearly this thing is designed for programs *way* bigger than "Hello 
World". I can't help thinking that if Hello World is all you're trying 
to write, this is massive overkill. Oh well, it's faster than running 
GCC on a virtual machine! (And it has a real editor, not Nano. And I 
even found out how to make it stop ****ing with my text layout!)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> ....still not found a way to compile things yet...

It's the little icon on the toolbar that looks like a birthday cake, at 
least on the 2005 version. (I don't know why it looks like a birthday cake.

Isn't there a "build" menu when you open the "solution"?

You know, "create new project", then pick the type (like console), then 
type in the "hello world" program where it belongs, then "build" and 
then "run"?

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Hmm, you really have to do stuff in *exactly* the order it wants, don't 
> you? Man this thing's inflexible!

Uh, like what?  But yeah, a lot of Microsoft stuff can be like that. I 
don't really remember that to be the case in VS. Maybe getting something 
set up in the first place the first time is more tedious than I remember.

> Clearly this thing is designed for programs *way* bigger than "Hello 
> World". I can't help thinking that if Hello World is all you're trying 
> to write, this is massive overkill. 

Yep. The full-blown product has stuff like automated unit testing built 
in, and even the cheap $99 version has stuff like automated source 
control built in.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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>> ....still not found a way to compile things yet...
> 
> It's the little icon on the toolbar that looks like a birthday cake, at 
> least on the 2005 version. (I don't know why it looks like a birthday cake.
> 
> Isn't there a "build" menu when you open the "solution"?

Yeah, there was a build button, but disabled.

> You know, "create new project", then pick the type (like console), then 
> type in the "hello world" program where it belongs, then "build" and 
> then "run"?

Yeah, that's just it - I hadn't figured out that you must create a 
"project" before you can compile anything. ;-) It lets you edit source 
code just fine without one, but won't actually compile anything.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Darren New wrote:
> Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>> Hmm, you really have to do stuff in *exactly* the order it wants, 
>> don't you? Man this thing's inflexible!
> 
> Uh, like what?

Like if you go File > New > File... and then select "CPP File", it 
doesn't add it to the current project. (And opens the file browser in a 
random spot.) You must instead right-click on the "Source Files" node of 
the current project and select "Add item..." and select "CPP File", and 
*then* it automatically puts the file in the correct place, adds it to 
the project, and lets you compile and run it. Sheesh!

> But yeah, a lot of Microsoft stuff can be like that.

Yeah. I remember the self-same thing with Visual J++ Studio, 10 years 
ago! ;-)

>> Clearly this thing is designed for programs *way* bigger than "Hello 
>> World". I can't help thinking that if Hello World is all you're trying 
>> to write, this is massive overkill. 
> 
> Yep. The full-blown product has stuff like automated unit testing built 
> in, and even the cheap $99 version has stuff like automated source 
> control built in.

Ooo, I *so* must buy that!!!1!eleven!

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Like if you go File > New > File... and then select "CPP File", it 
> doesn't add it to the current project. (And opens the file browser in a 
> random spot.) You must instead right-click on the "Source Files" node of 
> the current project and select "Add item..." and select "CPP File", and 
> *then* it automatically puts the file in the correct place, adds it to 
> the project, and lets you compile and run it. Sheesh!

Oh, yeah, OK. But you can also add files that aren't in the project. So 
if you create a CPP file that's outside the "solution", you can then 
choose to add it to the solution later.  Not really an "out of order" 
problem so much as a "too many choices" problem. :-)

> Yeah. I remember the self-same thing with Visual J++ Studio, 10 years 
> ago! ;-)

I was thinking stuff like installing interrelated packages, drivers, etc.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Yeah, that's just it - I hadn't figured out that you must create a 
> "project" before you can compile anything. ;-) It lets you edit source 
> code just fine without one, but won't actually compile anything.

They may have made it more complicated in the 2008 version or something. 
The 2005 version has a big button saying "create new project" and you 
have to go into the menus and such to find the "create a file that I 
don't know how to compile" part. ;-)

But yeah, it's a big and complex tool. It'll take a day or two to learn 
how it works.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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Oh... cool.

According to "Thinking in C++", you can use the keywords "and", "or" and 
"not" in place of symbols. GCC accepts this. However, Visual C++ doesn't 
seem to like it.

I just took the program source code and handed it, unmodified, to GCC. 
It compiled immediately. Yet Visual C++ complains about "not" being an 
"undeclared identifier". Goodie.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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