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"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospam com> wrote in message
news:489b2c47$1@news.povray.org...
> On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:03:25 +0100, St. wrote:
>
>> What? Even Wings3D? As far as I know, it's 'the' most easily used
>> modeller out there. And very powerful.
>
> Well, even Wings3D has a slight learning curve. Blender is easy to
> operate as well, once you have learned the interface - but for some, that
> takes years to master.
>
> Today's society is full of people who don't want to take the time to
> *learn*, they just expect to be able to understand everything instantly,
> and get frustrated when they don't "get it" within the first 30 seconds
> of using a new tool.
Ha, yeah, I didn't think of it like that, but I do know what you mean.
I think it was Gilles that first posted here about Wings a couple of years
ago, (three?) and up until that point, I was using sPatch and Hamapatch,
(which are good, nothing wrong with them imo), but then things became easier
when following the tuts he posted. I love Blender, I've played around with
it a lot, (and I know it's so much more powerful than Wings), but yes, it's
the interface that does it for me. I want to get on with the job, and
Blender restricts that just for trying to find something. Ah, I dunno, maybe
I'll give it a *serious* try someday... :)
~Steve~
>
> Jim
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On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:34:57 +0100, St. wrote:
> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
> news:489b2c47$1@news.povray.org...
>> On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:03:25 +0100, St. wrote:
>>
>>> What? Even Wings3D? As far as I know, it's 'the' most easily used
>>> modeller out there. And very powerful.
>>
>> Well, even Wings3D has a slight learning curve. Blender is easy to
>> operate as well, once you have learned the interface - but for some,
>> that takes years to master.
>>
>> Today's society is full of people who don't want to take the time to
>> *learn*, they just expect to be able to understand everything
>> instantly, and get frustrated when they don't "get it" within the first
>> 30 seconds of using a new tool.
>
> Ha, yeah, I didn't think of it like that, but I do know what you
> mean.
:-) My stepson is like that - or used to be, at least. He's gotten
older now and has matured in this regard (and others). Always expected
to be able to do anything instantly; he tried to learn to play the flute
and got frustrated within a week because he was "no good at it". Even
knowing someone who has practiced for *years* (friend of my wife's who
went to New York to play professionally).
> I think it was Gilles that first posted here about Wings a couple of
> years ago, (three?) and up until that point, I was using sPatch and
> Hamapatch, (which are good, nothing wrong with them imo), but then
> things became easier when following the tuts he posted. I love Blender,
> I've played around with it a lot, (and I know it's so much more powerful
> than Wings), but yes, it's the interface that does it for me. I want to
> get on with the job, and Blender restricts that just for trying to find
> something. Ah, I dunno, maybe I'll give it a *serious* try someday...
> :)
Yeah, I like Wings3D myself, usually the first tool I pick up if I want
to model something just for fun.
Jim
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St. wrote:
> What? Even Wings3D? As far as I know, it's 'the' most easily used
> modeller out there. And very powerful.
Actually, I found Hash Animation Master to be pretty easy to use. I'm
kind of annoyed that I paid for a professional program and got an
amateur quality result overall, but it *is* pretty easy. The videos
give a pretty good idea.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
Ever notice how people in a zombie movie never already know how to
kill zombies? Ask 100 random people in America how to kill someone
who has reanimated from the dead in a secret viral weapons lab,
and how many do you think already know you need a head-shot?
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St. wrote:
> True, but it can be done. I mean, I'm pretty sure that Crytek do this,
> and of course some of the mod teams do this too.
I'm sure everyone serious does it. I'm just not sure I can visualize the
process. I've sat in design meetings of software, web sites, documents,
etc. I haven't sat in design meetings for interactive games. It seems to
me it might be noticably different. I'm wondering how autonomous the
decisions made by the people sitting in front of the level editor are,
for example. How much of the level is pre-planned, how much is easier to
lay out and then fix later if it plays poorly.
> If you're not making a mod, (where you introduce new elements, models,
> whatever), then it's basically all there for you in the editor,
I'm kind of talking about how much goes on before you even sit down in
front of the editor.
> I'd love somebody from here to test my map, but I don't think anyone here
> plays Crysis. :o/
I might if I had the video card for it.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
Ever notice how people in a zombie movie never already know how to
kill zombies? Ask 100 random people in America how to kill someone
who has reanimated from the dead in a secret viral weapons lab,
and how many do you think already know you need a head-shot?
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>> What *I* wonder about game design is how the hell you model 3D objects.
>> Every 3D modeller I've ever used has been excruciatingly difficult to
>> operate...
>
> What? Even Wings3D? As far as I know, it's 'the' most easily used
> modeller out there. And very powerful.
I did once try either Wings or Blender. Unfortunately I can't remember
which of those it was! I do remember being utterly unable to make it do
anything at all though...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> Today's society is full of people who don't want to take the time to
> *learn*, they just expect to be able to understand everything instantly,
> and get frustrated when they don't "get it" within the first 30 seconds
> of using a new tool.
Today's OSS is full of products which come with no manual at all. :-P
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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St. wrote:
> I'd love somebody from here to test my map, but I don't think anyone here
> plays Crysis. :o/
Isn't "Crysis" named after the effect it has on your GPU?
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:50:42 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>
>> Today's society is full of people who don't want to take the time to
>> *learn*, they just expect to be able to understand everything
>> instantly, and get frustrated when they don't "get it" within the first
>> 30 seconds of using a new tool.
>
> Today's OSS is full of products which come with no manual at all. :-P
Well, when it comes to 3D modelling, let's have a look, shall we?
http://www.wings3d.com/ - "User Manual 1.6.1 (PDF)", along with several
tutorials.
http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Manual/Manual - Blender manual.
Probably not as current as it could be, but there are also books on how
to use it.
Jim
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On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:49:43 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> What *I* wonder about game design is how the hell you model 3D
>>> objects. Every 3D modeller I've ever used has been excruciatingly
>>> difficult to operate...
>>
>> What? Even Wings3D? As far as I know, it's 'the' most easily used
>> modeller out there. And very powerful.
>
> I did once try either Wings or Blender. Unfortunately I can't remember
> which of those it was! I do remember being utterly unable to make it do
> anything at all though...
Probably blender, it does take some patience to learn how to use it.
Once you learn it, it makes sense, but there's a steep learning curve.
Wings3D, OTOH, right click, add object. Select object, right click,
select operation....pretty straightforward.
Jim
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"Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote in message
news:489b3f31$1@news.povray.org...
> St. wrote:
>> True, but it can be done. I mean, I'm pretty sure that Crytek do
>> this, and of course some of the mod teams do this too.
>
> I'm sure everyone serious does it. I'm just not sure I can visualize the
> process. I've sat in design meetings of software, web sites, documents,
> etc. I haven't sat in design meetings for interactive games. It seems to
> me it might be noticably different. I'm wondering how autonomous the
> decisions made by the people sitting in front of the level editor are, for
> example. How much of the level is pre-planned, how much is easier to lay
> out and then fix later if it plays poorly.
If you had Crysis installed and played the games in the recent ICMC comp:
http://icmc.crymod.com/ then you would get an idea of what can be done by
amateurs. There were 20+ maps submitted, and some of them were better than
Crytek's maps, (according to a lot of the users).
Autonomous? You can do basically what you want with this editor.
Obviously, you need to learn it, but Darren, if I can, you most certainly
can. I don't know. I don't know what you're actually looking for even though
you said it in text. You can design a whole map, and if it doesn't "play
properly" then MAKE it play properly. You can. Want a faster LTV? (No idea
what that stands for, it's a large jeep/hummer type vehicle), you can do it.
>
>> If you're not making a mod, (where you introduce new elements,
>> models, whatever), then it's basically all there for you in the editor,
>
> I'm kind of talking about how much goes on before you even sit down in
> front of the editor.
Well, the storyline for a start, (which I've already explained), just to
give you some idea of what you want for the game. Is it going to be a mod?
If so, then you have to start thinking of different folder paths that you
will probably have to make within the main folders. Yes, there's a lot of
messing about with this game, (as with other programs), but as always, once
you play with it and get used to it, it becomes easier.
>
>> I'd love somebody from here to test my map, but I don't think anyone
>> here plays Crysis. :o/
>
> I might if I had the video card for it.
nV6600GT here. And it, (the original vanilla game), plays well on mostly
medium settings for me, with a couple of high prams in-between.
I'd love it if you could play my map, to me, it's great game-play if you
want to sneak and snipe around, (or even hammer it with a machine gun)and
even though there is no story as such, (which I will probably still add),
you would find it hard to get through to the end as I've found out many
times. It's not impossible, and I've completed it many times, but it is hard
on 'normal' settings as apposed to 'veteren' settings, (which I haven't even
tried yet!)
Anyway, just get the next Crysis:Warhead game, and you'll also get the
next version of the editor, which is either going to be v2.5 or v3.0. As I
said to Ben, it's supposed to be optimised for lower end PC's.
Want to licence the game? $2mill.(ish) Heh.
Oooo, those Yerli brothers... :)
~Steve~
>
> --
> Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
> Ever notice how people in a zombie movie never already know how to
> kill zombies? Ask 100 random people in America how to kill someone
> who has reanimated from the dead in a secret viral weapons lab,
> and how many do you think already know you need a head-shot?
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