POV-Ray : Newsgroups : povray.general : SEVERE shadow problems with Blender POV renders?? Is anyone familiar with i= Server Time: 15 Dec 2019 20:28:24 GMT
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From: tmelram
Subject: SEVERE shadow problems with Blender POV renders?? Is anyone familiar with i=
Date: 17 Nov 2019 21:00:02
Message: <web.5dd1b380a19450f8c8bf72b50@news.povray.org>
Hi, I am using Blender to model and wanted to use POV ray to render my scenes.
But, I'm getting serious shadow issues. There seem to be triangles near wherever
there are shadows!

A picture of the problem:
https://i.imgur.com/z6Ftxv6.png

How can I remedy this??


Post a reply to this message

From: jr
Subject: Re: SEVERE shadow problems with Blender POV renders?? Is anyone familiar wi=
Date: 17 Nov 2019 21:40:00
Message: <web.5dd1be176829cb1bfeeb22ff0@news.povray.org>
hi,

"tmelram" <taj### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> Hi, I am using Blender to model and wanted to use POV ray to render my scenes.
> But, I'm getting serious shadow issues. There seem to be triangles near wherever
> there are shadows!
>
> A picture of the problem:
> https://i.imgur.com/z6Ftxv6.png
>
> How can I remedy this??

I guess it would be helpful to see the (generated) scene code.


regards, jr.


Post a reply to this message

From: tmelram
Subject: Re: SEVERE shadow problems with Blender POV renders?? Is anyone familiar wi=
Date: 17 Nov 2019 22:05:01
Message: <web.5dd1c38df0a1c145c8bf72b50@news.povray.org>
"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "tmelram" <taj### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> > Hi, I am using Blender to model and wanted to use POV ray to render my scenes.
> > But, I'm getting serious shadow issues. There seem to be triangles near wherever
> > there are shadows!
> >
> > A picture of the problem:
> > https://i.imgur.com/z6Ftxv6.png
> >
> > How can I remedy this??
>
> I guess it would be helpful to see the (generated) scene code.
>
>
> regards, jr.

Sure, here you go:


//----------------------------------------------
//--Exported with POV-Ray exporter for Blender--
//----------------------------------------------

#version 3.7;

//--Global settings--

global_settings {
    assumed_gamma 1.0
    max_trace_level 5
    ambient_light rgb<0, 0, 0>
}

//--Custom Code--

#declare CURFRAMENUM = 1;
//#include "/home/user/directory/animation_include_file.inc"

//--Patterns Definitions--


 #declare PAT_Tex =
pigment {
}

#declare fPAT_Tex=
function{pigment{PAT_Tex}}



//--Background--

background {rgbt<0.0509, 0.0509, 0.0509, 0>}

//--Cameras--

#declare camLocation  = <7.481132, 5.343666, 6.507640>;
#declare camLookAt = <-27.098163, 46.688390, -0.903519>;
camera {
    location  <0, 0, 0>
    look_at  <0, 0, -1>
    right <-1.7777777777777777, 0, 0>
    up <0, 1, 0>
    angle  49.134343
    rotate  <-27.098163, 46.688390, -0.903519>
    translate <7.481132, 5.343666, 6.507640>
}

//--Lamps--

light_source {
    < 0,0,0 >
    color rgb<2, 2, 2>
    spotlight
    falloff 22.50
    radius 19.125000
    tightness 0
    point_at  <0, 0, -1>
    fade_distance 12.500000
    fade_power 2
    matrix <0.901870, 0.180445, -0.392519,  -0.417916, 0.594587, -0.686886,
0.109441, 0.783522, 0.611650,  0.000000, 18.516430, 14.742990>
}
#declare lampTarget1= vrotate(<-0,14.74,-18.52>,<0.6492,-0.1814,0.4105>);

//--Material Definitions--

#default{ pigment{ color rgb 0.8 }}
#declare shader_ = finish {  //translation of spec and mir levels for when no
map influences them
    diffuse 0.8
    phong 70.0
}


//--Mesh objects--

#declare DATASphere_001 =
mesh2 {
    vertex_vectors {
        482,
        <-0.195090, 0.000000, 0.980785>,
        <-0.382683, 0.000000, 0.923880>,
        <-0.555570, 0.000000, 0.831470>,
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        <-0.831470, 0.000000, 0.555570>,
        <-0.923880, 0.000000, 0.382683>,
        <-0.980785, 0.000000, 0.195090>,
        <-1.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000>,
        <-0.980785, 0.000000, -0.195090>,
        <-0.923880, 0.000000, -0.382683>,
        <-0.831470, 0.000000, -0.555570>,
        <-0.707107, 0.000000, -0.707107>,
        <-0.555570, 0.000000, -0.831470>,
        <-0.382683, 0.000000, -0.923880>,
        <-0.195090, 0.000000, -0.980785>,
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        <-0.375330, 0.074658, 0.923880>,
        <-0.544895, 0.108386, 0.831470>,
        <-0.693520, 0.137950, 0.707107>,
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        <474,473,6>,
        <474,6,7>,
        <472,471,4>,
        <472,4,5>
    }
    normal_indices {
        960,
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        <378,371,464>,
        <21,11,300>,
        <21,300,214>,
        <458,18,424>,
        <458,424,443>,
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        <128,239,408>,
        <325,86,463>,
        <128,408,12>,
        <463,86,111>,
        <128,12,388>,
        <111,86,425>,
        <128,388,89>,
        <425,86,454>,
        <128,89,355>,
        <454,86,52>,
        <128,355,164>,
        <52,86,287>,
        <128,164,173>,
        <287,86,195>,
        <128,173,120>,
        <195,86,358>,
        <128,120,256>,
        <358,86,308>,
        <128,256,258>,
        <308,86,356>,
        <128,258,471>,
        <356,86,3>,
        <128,471,87>,
        <3,86,27>,
        <180,226,404>,
        <180,404,18>,
        <87,393,198>,
        <87,198,282>,
        <247,284,290>,
        <247,290,27>,
        <414,101,197>,
        <414,197,125>,
        <53,264,375>,
        <53,375,419>,
        <81,327,315>,
        <81,315,378>,
        <221,64,11>,
        <221,11,21>,
        <396,180,18>,
        <396,18,458>,
        <128,87,282>,
        <226,290,284>,
        <226,284,404>,
        <393,414,125>,
        <393,125,198>,
        <27,86,247>,
        <101,53,419>,
        <101,419,197>,
        <264,81,378>,
        <264,378,375>,
        <327,221,21>,
        <327,21,315>,
        <64,396,458>,
        <64,458,11>
    }
    radiosity {
        importance 0.5
    }
}
//----Blender Object Name:OBSphere----
object {
    DATASphere_001
    matrix <1.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000,  0.000000, -0.000000, -1.000000,
0.000000, 1.000000, -0.000000,  0.454767, 0.781743, 0.460945>

}


Post a reply to this message

From: jr
Subject: Re: SEVERE shadow problems with Blender POV renders?? Is anyone familiar wi=
Date: 17 Nov 2019 22:45:02
Message: <web.5dd1cc75f0a1c145feeb22ff0@news.povray.org>
hi,

"tmelram" <taj### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > hi,
> >
> > "tmelram" <taj### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> > > Hi, I am using Blender to model and wanted to use POV ray to render my scenes.
> > > But, I'm getting serious shadow issues. There seem to be triangles near wherever
> > > there are shadows!
> > >
> > > A picture of the problem:
> > > https://i.imgur.com/z6Ftxv6.png
> > >
> > > How can I remedy this??
> >
> > I guess it would be helpful to see the (generated) scene code.
> >
> >
> > regards, jr.
>
> Sure, here you go:
> ...

not sure of the cause, but changing the light_source makes for a smooth shadow
line, ie I did:
>
> //--Lamps--
>
#if (0)
light_source {
    < 0,0,0 >
    color rgb<2, 2, 2>
    spotlight
    falloff 22.50
    radius 19.125000
    tightness 0
    point_at  <0, 0, -1>
    fade_distance 12.500000
    fade_power 2
    matrix <0.901870, 0.180445, -0.392519,  -0.417916, 0.594587, -0.686886,
0.109441, 0.783522, 0.611650,  0.000000, 18.516430, 14.742990>
}
> #declare lampTarget1= vrotate(<-0,14.74,-18.52>,<0.6492,-0.1814,0.4105>);
#else
light_source {0 colour srgb 1 parallel}
#end
> //--Material Definitions--
> ...

and no triangles.  hth.


regards, jr.


Post a reply to this message

From: Bald Eagle
Subject: Re: SEVERE shadow problems with Blender POV renders?? Is anyone familiar wi=
Date: 17 Nov 2019 23:05:01
Message: <web.5dd1d1daf0a1c1454eec112d0@news.povray.org>
> > Hi, I am using Blender to model and wanted to use POV ray to render my scenes.
> > But, I'm getting serious shadow issues. There seem to be triangles near wherever
> > there are shadows!

Well - those appear to be actual triangles.  Can you export from Blender with
the msh2 object format, rather than mesh?
Then you could use the smooth_triangles to get a better geometric surface.

http://wiki.povray.org/content/Documentation:Tutorial_Section_3.1#Polygon_Based_Shapes


Post a reply to this message

From: jr
Subject: Re: SEVERE shadow problems with Blender POV renders?? Is anyone familiar wi=
Date: 17 Nov 2019 23:15:00
Message: <web.5dd1d377f0a1c145feeb22ff0@news.povray.org>
"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "tmelram" <taj### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> > "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > > "tmelram" <taj### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> > > > Hi, I am using Blender to model and wanted to use POV ray to render my scenes.
> > > > But, I'm getting serious shadow issues. There seem to be triangles near
wherever
> > > > there are shadows!
> > > >
> > > > A picture of the problem:
> > > > https://i.imgur.com/z6Ftxv6.png
> > > >
> > > > How can I remedy this??
> > >
> > > I guess it would be helpful to see the (generated) scene code.
> >
> > Sure, here you go:
> > ...
>
> not sure of the cause, but changing the light_source makes for a smooth shadow
> line, ie I did:

the light_source is probably not to blame though.  I replaced the mesh sphere
with just a 'sphere {0,1}' and that shows no triangles with your light.


regards, jr.


Post a reply to this message

From: Mr
Subject: Re: SEVERE shadow problems with Blender POV renders?? Is anyone familiar wi=
Date: 18 Nov 2019 10:50:00
Message: <web.5dd2774ef0a1c14516086ed00@news.povray.org>
"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> > > Hi, I am using Blender to model and wanted to use POV ray to render my scenes.
> > > But, I'm getting serious shadow issues. There seem to be triangles near wherever
> > > there are shadows!
>
> Well - those appear to be actual triangles.  Can you export from Blender with
> the msh2 object format, rather than mesh?
> Then you could use the smooth_triangles to get a better geometric surface.
>
>
http://wiki.povray.org/content/Documentation:Tutorial_Section_3.1#Polygon_Based_Shapes

Hi, the provided scene shows it is already mesh2 as exported by POV-Converter

And since your object appears to be just some sphere, maybe the fastest
workaround is to just use a POV sphere ? (Shift + A menu then choose the pov
primitives to add them instead of Blender ones, all objects from this submenu
stay POV primitives and have there parameters to modify once you click the lock
/Unlock Icon in properties window).

If you do have to use a mesh, IIRC there might be a better shadow interpolation
option in later POV versions. Otherwise adding some subsurf modifier to it will
refine its geometry and curvature.

Using some radiosity with a nearby surface or other lamp types *might* resolve
the issue if it gets to have an area instead of single point/light path.


Post a reply to this message

From: tmelram
Subject: Re: SEVERE shadow problems with Blender POV renders?? Is anyone familiar wi=
Date: 18 Nov 2019 21:50:00
Message: <web.5dd311d7f0a1c145c8bf72b50@news.povray.org>
"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "tmelram" <taj### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> > "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > > hi,
> > >
> > > "tmelram" <taj### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> > > > Hi, I am using Blender to model and wanted to use POV ray to render my scenes.
> > > > But, I'm getting serious shadow issues. There seem to be triangles near
wherever
> > > > there are shadows!
> > > >
> > > > A picture of the problem:
> > > > https://i.imgur.com/z6Ftxv6.png
> > > >
> > > > How can I remedy this??
> > >
> > > I guess it would be helpful to see the (generated) scene code.
> > >
> > >
> > > regards, jr.
> >
> > Sure, here you go:
> > ...
>
> not sure of the cause, but changing the light_source makes for a smooth shadow
> line, ie I did:
> >
> > //--Lamps--
> >
> #if (0)
> light_source {
>     < 0,0,0 >
>     color rgb<2, 2, 2>
>     spotlight
>     falloff 22.50
>     radius 19.125000
>     tightness 0
>     point_at  <0, 0, -1>
>     fade_distance 12.500000
>     fade_power 2
>     matrix <0.901870, 0.180445, -0.392519,  -0.417916, 0.594587, -0.686886,
> 0.109441, 0.783522, 0.611650,  0.000000, 18.516430, 14.742990>
> }
> > #declare lampTarget1= vrotate(<-0,14.74,-18.52>,<0.6492,-0.1814,0.4105>);
> #else
> light_source {0 colour srgb 1 parallel}
> #end
> > //--Material Definitions--
> > ...
>
> and no triangles.  hth.
>
>
> regards, jr.


Thanks, it worked!. But, it seems to have flipped the direction of the light.
It's either upside-down,backwards, or both. I chose a simple sphere with one
light just to test. But for a more complex scene it might help to know what
exactly did you change to make it so that there wouldn't be any triangles. What
did you do?

Also I found this article:
http://wiki.povray.org/content/Knowledgebase:The_Shadow_Line_Artifact

What do you think of it and the solutions?


Post a reply to this message

From: tmelram
Subject: Re: SEVERE shadow problems with Blender POV renders?? Is anyone familiar wi=
Date: 18 Nov 2019 22:20:00
Message: <web.5dd3180cf0a1c145c8bf72b50@news.povray.org>
"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "tmelram" <taj### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> > Hi, I am using Blender to model and wanted to use POV ray to render my scenes.
> > But, I'm getting serious shadow issues. There seem to be triangles near wherever
> > there are shadows!
> >
> > A picture of the problem:
> > https://i.imgur.com/z6Ftxv6.png
> >
> > How can I remedy this??
>
> I guess it would be helpful to see the (generated) scene code.
>
>
> regards, jr.

Here's what happened when I  tried to use the code you posted:

https://i.imgur.com/vEm5hnZ.png


Post a reply to this message

From: jr
Subject: Re: SEVERE shadow problems with Blender POV renders?? Is anyone familiar wi=
Date: 19 Nov 2019 12:30:01
Message: <web.5dd3dfbaf0a1c145feeb22ff0@news.povray.org>
hi,

"tmelram" <taj### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > "tmelram" <taj### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> > > "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > > > "tmelram" <taj### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> > > > > Hi, I am using Blender to model and wanted to use POV ray to render my
scenes.
> > > > > But, I'm getting serious shadow issues. There seem to be triangles near
wherever
> > > > > there are shadows!
> > > > >
> > > > > A picture of the problem:
> > > > > https://i.imgur.com/z6Ftxv6.png
> > > > >
> > > > > How can I remedy this??
> > > >
> > > > I guess it would be helpful to see the (generated) scene code.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > regards, jr.
> > >
> > > Sure, here you go:
> > > ...
> >
> > not sure of the cause, but changing the light_source makes for a smooth shadow
> > line, ie I did:
> > ...
>
> Thanks, it worked!. But, it seems to have flipped the direction of the light.

yes.  I left out the transform.

> It's either upside-down,backwards, or both. I chose a simple sphere with one
> light just to test. But for a more complex scene it might help to know what
> exactly did you change to make it so that there wouldn't be any triangles. What
> did you do?

nothing else.

as Mr and B Pokorny have mentioned, perhaps use a "real" sphere, or, if there's
a need for the mesh2, try using 'smooth triangles' (see documentation on 'mesh2'
object).

sorry to be of little help, I do not use Blender.

> Also I found this article:
> http://wiki.povray.org/content/Knowledgebase:The_Shadow_Line_Artifact
>
> What do you think of it and the solutions?

depending on the scene you're working on, I think playing with 'shadowless' in
the lights, and or with 'no_shadow' object modifier, is definitely worth trying.


regards, jr.


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