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#macro tim.nikias (@) #local = "nolights.de" #end
news:407135b8$1@news.povray.org
> The problem, as has been discussed sometime earlier somewhere, is that
> the newsgroups don't have means to certify the age of the visitor.
Hmm Yes, but separate group could be displayed (via www) in different way
then other "normal" groups.
And as for news:// well, I think that name .adults is quite clear, and also
- in same way news://*.sex.* exists.
> So, if we assume kids of age 12 and up, what kind of images are
> appropriate for them?
> Sexual explicit content just isn't.
Btw. I think... what would happened even if just kid see such image?
If it is *realy* yung he will not understand it, is it is older - well, in
99.999% cases he would already know how to type "free sex" in google.
And even if so, I think that such image will not kill children. Neither wil
it destroy its psihics or turn it into monster ;)
But this are just my thoughts, im not a psychiatrist and maybe im totaly
mistaking.
--
http://www.raf256.com/3d/
Rafal Maj 'Raf256', home page - http://www.raf256.com/me/
Computer Graphics
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spa### [at] raf256com news:Xns94C28087FEF8Fraf256com@203.29.75.35
>> The problem, as has been discussed sometime earlier somewhere, is
>> that the newsgroups don't have means to certify the age of the
>> visitor.
> Hmm Yes, but separate group could be displayed (via www) in different
> way then other "normal" groups.
In addition - why not use authentication for such group? If this is not a
technical problem fore news.povray.org news-server.
I can write and donate PHP script to register (that will work with either
text file and/or MySQL data base, that would be connected to news-server).
--
http://www.raf256.com/3d/
Rafal Maj 'Raf256', home page - http://www.raf256.com/me/
Computer Graphics
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I think this community is intelligent enough not to tolerate somebody
who crosses the lines several times (anyone heard something about Bill
lately? Well, aside from that april fool, of course *g*). It's just that
it is tolerated longer than in other communities I know.
I got no problem with the content of IMBJR's posts (but that *is* a
personal opinion). But, as others already pointed out, his attitude is
just plain stupid (again, my personal opinion). IMHO all he wants to is
to create emotions like the one in this thread. I do not think that we
should give him that success.
IMO the best solution is still the good ol' killfile. If this won't work
on your system, simply ignore his posts. Trolls can't live with being
ignored.
> It is because of this I won't be posting anything there anymore.
I think that would be kind of a childish reaction. I do not see how this
would solve the problem. I love your images and - in contrast to IMBJR -
you are a great member of this community. If everybody who is displeased
by IMBJR's post would stop posting, he had reached his goal.
Conclusion: Igonore this troll. He will either get more and more
agressive (and will be baned) or simply die in some lonely corner.
Florian
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From: Florian Brucker
Subject: Re: Questionable Content on the Newsgroups
Date: 5 Apr 2004 06:49:57
Message: <407139d5@news.povray.org>
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> Btw. I think... what would happened even if just kid see such image?
> If it is *realy* yung he will not understand it, is it is older - well, in
> 99.999% cases he would already know how to type "free sex" in google.
So why are in every country I know only adults allowed to watch, rent,
buy, posses, etc. porn-material? Don't you think there's a reason for that?
Just because the kids can get the stuff somewhere else, it does not mean
that you should serve it to them, too. Or do you go out in the
kindergardens and sell porn, guns, alcohol, drugs, etc. to the kids?
Florian
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tor### [at] torfboldcom news:407138cf$1@news.povray.org
> Conclusion: Igonore this troll. He will either get more and more
> agressive (and will be baned) or simply die in some lonely corner.
So I guess that modern artists, surreal-artists, etc - where all trolles?
And if peoples would think like You, today we all would oil-paint 3d
portrets of each other instead of using POV.
Btw, in one of nerws groups I was consider a troll (for some time) bacause
using PovRay (instead of The Only Allowed By God Tool - 3dSMax).
I realy thought that we have more tollerant peoples here, and that terms
like freedom are more known.
--
http://www.raf256.com/3d/
Rafal Maj 'Raf256', home page - http://www.raf256.com/me/
Computer Graphics
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tor### [at] torfboldcom news:407139d5@news.povray.org
> So why are in every country I know only adults allowed to watch, rent,
Good You added "I know"
> buy, posses, etc. porn-material? Don't you think there's a reason for
> that?
Reasons are always. Are there wise is another subject.
> Just because the kids can get the stuff somewhere else, it does not
> mean that you should serve it to them, too.
I agree.
> Or do you go out in the kindergardens and sell porn, guns, alcohol,
> drugs, etc. to the kids?
Dont You see a slight difference here?
Porn is used to doing *good* (Yourself ;)
Simmilar for alcohol, BUT it is quite toxic for children, and more
important it makes peoples act stupid and possible *harm* / *kill* others
(i.e. when driving after drinking).
Guns are used to *kill* or injure other peoples.
Drugs *injure* (or even kill).
making pleasure and discovering human body
-Vs-
hurting, injuring, killing
no difference realy?!
--
http://www.raf256.com/3d/
Rafal Maj 'Raf256', home page - http://www.raf256.com/me/
Computer Graphics
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From: Thorsten Froehlich
Subject: Re: Questionable Content on the Newsgroups
Date: 5 Apr 2004 07:28:45
Message: <407142ed@news.povray.org>
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In article <407134c3$1@news.povray.org> , "Tim Nikias v2.0" <#macro
tim.nikias (@) #local = "nolights.de" #end> wrote:
>> Am I the only one (besides Greg, Tyler, Bob, and Patrick) who feels this
>> way? Please speak up, or else nothing will be done about it. I hope to
>> enjoy these newsgroups again someday.
>
> I too don't like the current spin of images in p.b.i. It is difficult to
> propose where to draw a line between erotic, obscenity and pornography
> though. What might be considered erotic is perhaps obscene to the next.
Exactly!
Personally I tend to have no problem with anything that can also been seen
in Greek statues. Beyond that, I do tend to consider things pornography.
Thorsten
____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org
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Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> ..."Tim Nikias v2.0" ... wrote:
>>It is difficult to propose where to draw a line between erotic,
>>obscenity and pornography though. What might be considered erotic
>>is perhaps obscene to the next.
>
> Personally I tend to have no problem with anything that can also been seen
> in Greek statues. Beyond that, I do tend to consider things pornography.
In many workplaces, even some of the Greek statues are inappropriate.
If you don't believe me, just try putting such a statue on your desk
and see how long it can stay.
On the other hand, if someone did create a well-rendered greek
statue with subsurface scattering, etc. I'd be quite interested
in seeing it outside of the office.
Personally, I like the suggestion of having a separate newsgroup
where all the nude, naked, and obscene pictures would end up;
primarily because even an elegant nude is not something I want
on my screen at work.
just a lurker...
PS: If you guys are talking about stuff from the same guy who kept
arguing endlessly about JPEG2000s, I aready killfiled him
since he seemed more inclined to stir up trouble than contribute.
Assuming it's the same guy, my guess is that if you block
obscenity he'll just turn to posting uncompressed CMYK files,
or X bitmaps just to keep stirring up trouble.
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>>So why are in every country I know only adults allowed to watch, rent,
>
> Good You added "I know"
I'd be interested if you could tell me in which industrial country this
is "organized" in a different way.
>>Or do you go out in the kindergardens and sell porn, guns, alcohol,
>>drugs, etc. to the kids?
> Dont You see a slight difference here?
> Porn is used to doing *good* (Yourself ;)
[snip]
> Guns are used to *kill* or injure other peoples.
100% ACK. I admit that this wasn't a good argument.
[snip]
> making pleasure and discovering human body
> -Vs-
> hurting, injuring, killing
>
> no difference realy?!
Porn is not always something good (I wonder if it is not almost always
something bad). It's about how we treat our fellow men: Porns often
display a kind of relationship between men and women which does in no
way represent their relationship in a "modern" society (I'm talking
about treating women as (sex-)objects instead of human beings here). I
think it's a good thing to prevent young kids from such a way of
thinking. So porn will not harm children physically and I would not go
as far as to state it harms them mentally, but IMHO it has a good chance
to influence their mind in a negative way (Which would be the same as
alcohol, with the slight difference that the effect of alcohol will
vanish after some hours of sleep).
Florian
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> So I guess that modern artists, surreal-artists, etc - where all trolles?
Perhaps. But as I handle it today with people like IMBJR (killfile), I
would have handled it in those times - don't look at their images if I
don't like them.
I don't know that much about art, but I guess not many of those "old
trolls" broke into exhebitions of the old-school artists only to show
their "modern"-art and try to provoke.
> And if peoples would think like You, today we all would oil-paint 3d
> portrets of each other instead of using POV.
Nope. Don't confuse technical progress with change of moral.
> Btw, in one of nerws groups I was consider a troll (for some time) bacause
> using PovRay (instead of The Only Allowed By God Tool - 3dSMax).
Could happen to you here, too (if you start posting Max-only images).
> I realy thought that we have more tollerant peoples here, and that terms
> like freedom are more known.
I think I am more tolerant than many other people (regarding things like
homosexual marriage (cool!), etc.). But I simply can't stand it if
someone's only goal is to disturb others. It's like with hooligans in
football - if they want to beat each other up, they should go to a
box-club or meet somewhere else where they don't annoy the others.
Florian
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