"Christoph Hormann" <chr### [at] gmxde> wrote in message
news:3D6B7AEA.31106208@gmx.de...

> In other words i meant technical abilities are a requirement for creating
> a scene at all while artistic abilities are only required for making a
> good scene.
>

Ah!

Okay then - (slightly) different question - where composition is going to be an
important feature of the final image (i.e. you're not just arsing about), is
there anyone who leaves the composition until last?

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Tom Melly wrote:
> 
> Okay then - (slightly) different question - where composition is going to be an
> important feature of the final image (i.e. you're not just arsing about), is
> there anyone who leaves the composition until last?

I don't think so.  For myself artistic and technical work usually go hand
in hand from the beginning on, even if i just make up ideas in my mind i
consider how things can be implemented technically (just like the typical
YKYHBRTTLW you look at a beautiful sunset and think about what might be
the color map for it...)

Christoph

-- 
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Last updated 13 Aug. 2002 _____./\/^>_*_<^\/\.______

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Christoph Hormann wrote:
> That does not seem to contradict my statement.  You can make up any
> composition in your head, but you will probably agree you can only
> sucessfully implement it if you have the technical abilities.  On the
> other hand you can start placing objects in a scene without knowing
> anything about composition, just using random values.

  This is my working method... perhaps I can't design a good composition, 
but nothing prevents me from finding it by trial&error. This is because 
it's so easy to test many diferent setups, as you said (your first analisis 
on the original question was very good). 

-- 
Jaime Vives Piqueres

La Persistencia de la Ignorancia
http://www.ignorancia.org

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news: 3d6b8f11@news.povray.org...
>   This is my working method... perhaps I can't design a good composition,
> but nothing prevents me from finding it by trial&error. This is because
> it's so easy to test many diferent setups, as you said (your first
analisis
> on the original question was very good).

Interestingly, while composition always comes first, I more or more
frequently end up creating different versions of the same image (when render
times allow it of course...). And playing with your light macros is quite
enlightening when it comes to define lighting setups as it's getting hard to
choose which is the best :-)
Note that conversations about composition are not POV-Ray-specific but
general to fine arts, and particularly to painting (which doesn't mean they
shouldn't take place here of course).
http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/monet/rouen/

G.

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**********************
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> http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/monet/rouen/

Oh, the link below is even better and 3d-related.
http://acg.media.mit.edu/people/golan/rouen/Rouen_Images.html

G.

--

**********************
http://www.oyonale.com
**********************
- Graphic experiments
- POV-Ray and Poser computer images
- Posters

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William F. Pokorny wrote:
> Marjorie,   Regarding your web pages - A very promising start!  I believe we
> need much more work like yours which reaches out to the traditional artist and
> offers them a bridge from their world to this one. I think this ray
> tracing/rendering community, though already evolving artistically,  is still
> very techish and insular. Many of us truly enjoy figuring out or seeing others
> code tricks and techniques.  Further many of us have minimal formal artistic
> training (in my cases talent too) and are simply unable to build these bridges.
> I hope you work more on this material and that it makes it's way into the hands
> of more artist.  I think there is great potential for great class!

<AOL>
Me too!
</AOL>

> 
>>Indeed.  It does not mean that you will not move the camera anymore (this is
>>an advantage). I think that in the beginning, a scene is pretty much like a
>>drawing. If you take a seat and start drawing a landscape, you'll lose your
>>perspective if you move.  There are things that you know are there, but
>>cannot be seen (unless you move the camera and change you point of view) and
>>therefore, can't be depicted.
>>
>>I started to write some notes in that regard. Maybe the first three pages
>>are of interest to you:
>>http://www.emediez.com/notas01.html
>>And also, a few basic concepts about composition:
>>http://www.emediez.com/notas2_01.html
>>
>>Regards,
>>Marjorie Graterol
> 
> 


-- 
/*Francois Labreque*/#local a=x+y;#local b=x+a;#local c=a+b;#macro P(F//
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/*        @        */{P(0,a)P(a,b)P(b,c)P(2*a,2*b)P(2*b,b+c)P(b+c,<2,3>)
/*   videotron.ca  */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }

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Tom Melly wrote:
> "Christoph Hormann" <chr### [at] gmxde> wrote in message
> news:3D6B7AEA.31106208@gmx.de...
> 
> 
>>In other words i meant technical abilities are a requirement for creating
>>a scene at all while artistic abilities are only required for making a
>>good scene.
>>
> 
> 
> Ah!
> 
> Okay then - (slightly) different question - where composition is going to be an
> important feature of the final image (i.e. you're not just arsing about), is
> there anyone who leaves the composition until last?

Not really, but I might create a scene with placeholders (boxes, etc...) 
and then work on the individual bits in a test scene, and come back to 
the scene once the objects are mostly done to finnagle with lighting and 
camera position.  But as you said, it usually starts with a "vision" of 
the final product anyways.

-- 
/*Francois Labreque*/#local a=x+y;#local b=x+a;#local c=a+b;#macro P(F//
/*    flabreque    */L)polygon{5,F,F+z,L+z,L,F pigment{rgb 9}}#end union
/*        @        */{P(0,a)P(a,b)P(b,c)P(2*a,2*b)P(2*b,b+c)P(b+c,<2,3>)
/*   videotron.ca  */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }

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