Warp wrote:
> 
>   Well, speedwise I think that meshes and imagemaps are quite ok. If that
> same scene would have made with primitives and procedural textures, the render
> time could perfectly be several hours...
> 

Hours? Everything below one day is not even worth the work... ;-)

Seriously, i think a mesh that's accurate enough for a realistic render
would not be that fast either. Just have a look at the reference
photographs...

One thing about your render: I think the red carpet should be removed, it
makes the whole front part look very red.

> 
>   3DWin4 did a damn good job at converting the 3ds file given in the page
> to mesh2's (with the original uv-information, of course; without that it would
> have been impossible to render the scene).
>   As the 3ds file didn't have the actual imagemaps, I had to search and
> set the proper images in proper places, but that wasn't too difficult.
> 

How about bump mapping of the brick structures like in some of the other
renders?

Christoph

-- 
Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde>
IsoWood include, radiosity tutorial, TransSkin and other 
things on: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/

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maybe it is worth a try for me.
is there a way to post the converted v3.1-code?
i would download it too (please only via http).
thank you.

BTW: the rendered pic from Vladimir Koylazov looks very realistic. does it 
depend on predefinitions on VRay or on his code?

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Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde> wrote:
: Seriously, i think a mesh that's accurate enough for a realistic render
: would not be that fast either.

  Why not? The rendering time of meshes is quite independent of the number
of triangles in it (yes, there *is* a dependency, but the rendering time of
a mesh grows *very slowly* in relation to the number of triangles; you can
double the number of triangles without the rendering speed slowing down almost
at all).

: One thing about your render: I think the red carpet should be removed, it
: makes the whole front part look very red.

  There is a red carpet in the other images. I think it's part of the original
model, but 3Dwin4 didn't export the color correctly (or alternatively there
was no color information in the 3ds file). I had to set the red color myself
for that (perhaps it's too red, but it's too late to change that).

: How about bump mapping of the brick structures like in some of the other
: renders?

  I used bump mapping with the given bump-map images. It may not be too
visible, but it is there (eg. you can see it in the reflections in the
floor, and in some of the column tops).

-- 
#macro N(D,I)#if(I<6)cylinder{M()#local D[I]=div(D[I],104);M().5,2pigment{
rgb M()}}N(D,(D[I]>99?I:I+1))#end#end#macro M()<mod(D[I],13)-6,mod(div(D[I
],13),8)-3,10>#end blob{N(array[6]{11117333955,
7382340,3358,3900569407,970,4254934330},0)}//                     - Warp -

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"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3c18ea1b@news.povray.org...
> Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde> wrote:
> : Seriously, i think a mesh that's accurate enough for a realistic render
> : would not be that fast either.
>
>   Why not? The rendering time of meshes is quite independent of the number
> of triangles in it (yes, there *is* a dependency, but the rendering time of
> a mesh grows *very slowly* in relation to the number of triangles; you can
> double the number of triangles without the rendering speed slowing down
almost
> at all).

And YOU call yourself a perfectionist ?
You should be able to tell us, that the time will grow with the logarithm of
the
number of the triangles (if they are saved in octrees, then probably
logbase=8)
;)

>
> : One thing about your render: I think the red carpet should be removed, it
> : makes the whole front part look very red.
>
>   There is a red carpet in the other images. I think it's part of the
original
> model, but 3Dwin4 didn't export the color correctly (or alternatively there
> was no color information in the 3ds file). I had to set the red color
myself
> for that (perhaps it's too red, but it's too late to change that).

to late to change that ? I thought you can send in as many pictures as you
want ?

>
> : How about bump mapping of the brick structures like in some of the other
> : renders?
>
>   I used bump mapping with the given bump-map images. It may not be too
> visible, but it is there (eg. you can see it in the reflections in the
> floor, and in some of the column tops).

of course, you have normals turned on, in the radiosity-block ... , haven't
you ?


--
Jan Walzer <jan### [at] lzernet>

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Warp wrote:
> 
>   Why not? The rendering time of meshes is quite independent of the number
> of triangles in it (yes, there *is* a dependency, but the rendering time of
> a mesh grows *very slowly* in relation to the number of triangles; you can
> double the number of triangles without the rendering speed slowing down almost
> at all).

But don't forget that the mesh has to be generated somehow, this can be
very slow too.  I have actually never seen a complex scene filling
geometry like this modelled with with a mesh with sufficient accuracy.

> 
> : One thing about your render: I think the red carpet should be removed, it
> : makes the whole front part look very red.
> 
>   There is a red carpet in the other images. I think it's part of the original
> model, but 3Dwin4 didn't export the color correctly (or alternatively there
> was no color information in the 3ds file). I had to set the red color myself
> for that (perhaps it's too red, but it's too late to change that).
> 

I suppose it is a much darker red in most other pictures, at least none
has this strong color bleed.

Christoph

-- 
Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde>
IsoWood include, radiosity tutorial, TransSkin and other 
things on: http://www.schunter.etc.tu-bs.de/~chris/

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Christoph Hormann wrote:

> But don't forget that the mesh has to be generated somehow, this can be
> very slow too.  I have actually never seen a complex scene filling
> geometry like this modelled with with a mesh with sufficient accuracy.


Accuracy of this scene, architecturally speaking, is pretty low, indeed.
CSG could give better results with more flexibility.  OTOH, meshes are
very efficient in POV-Ray rendering...

Fabien.

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Jan Walzer <jan### [at] lzernet> wrote:
: of course, you have normals turned on, in the radiosity-block ... , haven't
: you ?

  Yes. It's just that the poor radiosity quality settings don't really
highlight the normal features.
  I'm making a 20-hour render with higher quality to see what happens.

-- 
#macro N(D,I)#if(I<6)cylinder{M()#local D[I]=div(D[I],104);M().5,2pigment{
rgb M()}}N(D,(D[I]>99?I:I+1))#end#end#macro M()<mod(D[I],13)-6,mod(div(D[I
],13),8)-3,10>#end blob{N(array[6]{11117333955,
7382340,3358,3900569407,970,4254934330},0)}//                     - Warp -

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> Accuracy of this scene, architecturally speaking, is pretty low, indeed.
> CSG could give better results with more flexibility.  OTOH, meshes are
> very efficient in POV-Ray rendering...

...and uv-mapping complex CSG is a nightmare.
But it's true that CSG in that case could be more scalable.

To be frank, I find the Lightscape pics much better-looking (if not more
realistic) than anything else. Pure effect perhaps, a little overdone but
nice indeed.
I did have a try last night, but got hit with ugly artefacts (as expected
with a checkered floor) and then with looong render times. I've not
submitted it because it's really bad.
I'll see if I can improve it, but that won't happen soon.

G.

--

**********************
http://www.oyonale.com
**********************
- Graphic experiments
- POV-Ray and Poser computer images
- Posters

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Warp wrote:
> 
>   By the way, if anyone is interested in the scene, I can put it somewhere
> to download.

That would be nice. The download didn't work for me and I got
some CSS errors and blank pages.


_____________
Kari Kivisalo

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Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
:   I'm making a 20-hour render with higher quality to see what happens.

  As I thought: A lower error_bound (and higher count) gives a more accurate
lighting, but horrible stains of dark/light areas. Aargh!

-- 
#macro N(D,I)#if(I<6)cylinder{M()#local D[I]=div(D[I],104);M().5,2pigment{
rgb M()}}N(D,(D[I]>99?I:I+1))#end#end#macro M()<mod(D[I],13)-6,mod(div(D[I
],13),8)-3,10>#end blob{N(array[6]{11117333955,
7382340,3358,3900569407,970,4254934330},0)}//                     - Warp -

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