I am haivng trouble trying to figure things out with these type of
modelers. Here is the problem I am having (or rather what I would like
to see happen):

The thing the discouraged me from sPatch was that you couldn't fuse
points onto an already created circle. Since loops are supposed to be of
3 OR 4 points, if you had a 3 point loop, adding another point seems
fine, but it doesn't appear to be possible. The reaosn I need this is
because I like to start simply and work up to complexity. For example,
if I were to create say a face, or rather a head, I would start with
what an artist (well an artist using paper :) would probably do - that
is make the outline of the head (verticle and horizontal loops). The
problem is that I can't seem to add lines and loops to those loops. I
thought HammaPatch might help, but, unforatunately, it seems to be
pretty much beta right now (it runs SSSLLLOOOWW on my machine :( and is
unstable)

Any help would be very apreciative. I was hoping to find a program that
could do organic surfaces not only for Pov-Ray but for other exports as
well (for use in say a Scene Demo for objects).

Happy Tracing,

Tim Soderstrom
TigerHawk

Post a reply to this message

i use spatch and did the fuselage of my xwing model in it.  if you look
at the nose i did, you'll see that i built the cutout into the model. 
for the rear of the fuselage, however, i converted it to a solid mesh
and then did the cutouts with csg.  in my original fuselage, all of the
cutouts were csg, but they created holes.  so in my second version, i
built in as many cutouts as i felt would be prudent.  so let's take the
nosecone as an example.  i already had the thing made, in particular,
the main center sweep and so i had to figure out how to make the
cutout.  first step was deleting the patches in the area to be worked
on.  this actually deleted more than i needed because it left other
patches lacking nodes.  so next i filled in the areas affected by this
and built the sweep back up to the point where there was a hole where
the cutout was supposed to go.  then i added the cutout.  somethimes, i
would have three or four nodes, but no patch would emerge.  when that
would happen, i would just subdivide what i thought the patch should be;
usually just making a straight line run from one side to the other. 
this would usually generate two three point patches and solve the
problem.  i'm sorry this is kind of hard to follow.  if you think it
would help, i could email you my fuselage spatch file.  oh, one last
thing, use layers extensively.  if you need nodes to line up put not
affect each other, that's the best way to do it (two layers).

TigerHawk wrote:
> 
> I am haivng trouble trying to figure things out with these type of
> modelers. Here is the problem I am having (or rather what I would like
> to see happen):
> 
> The thing the discouraged me from sPatch was that you couldn't fuse
> points onto an already created circle. Since loops are supposed to be of
> 3 OR 4 points, if you had a 3 point loop, adding another point seems
> fine, but it doesn't appear to be possible. The reaosn I need this is
> because I like to start simply and work up to complexity. For example,
> if I were to create say a face, or rather a head, I would start with
> what an artist (well an artist using paper :) would probably do - that
> is make the outline of the head (verticle and horizontal loops). The
> problem is that I can't seem to add lines and loops to those loops. I
> thought HammaPatch might help, but, unforatunately, it seems to be
> pretty much beta right now (it runs SSSLLLOOOWW on my machine :( and is
> unstable)
> 
> Any help would be very apreciative. I was hoping to find a program that
> could do organic surfaces not only for Pov-Ray but for other exports as
> well (for use in say a Scene Demo for objects).
> 
> Happy Tracing,
> 
> Tim Soderstrom
> TigerHawk

Post a reply to this message

I see what you mean and I think it would be good to *ask* for it - not that
I think the SPatch creator is about.  Would be what you mean where for
example you create a cylinder - two joint circles and then you want another
circle in the middle, making three joint circles - a cylinder that can be
twisted.

ie

------      <-circle
|      |       <-joining points
|      |
------      <- circle

TO

------
|     |
-----
|     |
------

There are two ways I have experimented with to achieve this, though
obviously not as fast or easy as they could be.  THe first is simply to move
one of the points towards the middle and extrude downwards - this does not
work if you already have a large cylinder though.  The second you many not
be aware of is creating another circle, placing it in the middle and
attaching all the nodes the joining lines.  It does mean you have to
manually re create the piece in the centre and right click all the nodes in,
but it does work.  Maybe a good suggestion would be a function whereby the
number of extrusions can be multiplied by a factor, to complicate/more
populate the mesh without manually doing it.  Well I hope thats not too much
of a mess.

Peter Cracknell

www.petecracknell.co.uk

TigerHawk <tig### [at] sticnet> wrote in message
news:396BC9AC.413CF118@stic.net...
> I am haivng trouble trying to figure things out with these type of
> modelers. Here is the problem I am having (or rather what I would like
> to see happen):
>
> The thing the discouraged me from sPatch was that you couldn't fuse
> points onto an already created circle. Since loops are supposed to be of
> 3 OR 4 points, if you had a 3 point loop, adding another point seems
> fine, but it doesn't appear to be possible. The reaosn I need this is
> because I like to start simply and work up to complexity. For example,
> if I were to create say a face, or rather a head, I would start with
> what an artist (well an artist using paper :) would probably do - that
> is make the outline of the head (verticle and horizontal loops). The
> problem is that I can't seem to add lines and loops to those loops. I
> thought HammaPatch might help, but, unforatunately, it seems to be
> pretty much beta right now (it runs SSSLLLOOOWW on my machine :( and is
> unstable)
>
> Any help would be very apreciative. I was hoping to find a program that
> could do organic surfaces not only for Pov-Ray but for other exports as
> well (for use in say a Scene Demo for objects).
>
> Happy Tracing,
>
> Tim Soderstrom
> TigerHawk
>
>

Post a reply to this message

> There are two ways I have experimented with to achieve this, though
> obviously not as fast or easy as they could be.  THe first is simply to move
> one of the points towards the middle and extrude downwards - this does not
> work if you already have a large cylinder though.  The second you many not
> be aware of is creating another circle, placing it in the middle and
> attaching all the nodes the joining lines.  It does mean you have to
> manually re create the piece in the centre and right click all the nodes in,
> but it does work.  Maybe a good suggestion would be a function whereby the
> number of extrusions can be multiplied by a factor, to complicate/more
> populate the mesh without manually doing it.  Well I hope thats not too much
> of a mess.

Hmm...what I don't understand is how one can add the circle to the others? If
you have 2 circles joined together:

------      <-circle
|      |       <-joining points
|      |
------      <- circle

How can you fuse the third on?  Because there is already a nicely created series
of patches. That's what I am having trouble with, adding things like that to go
from simplistic to complex. I'm 'kinda' following both of you, but not really :)
(ryan: I wouldn't mind seeing your spatch portion of your model if that okay).
Anyways, I hope HamaPatch solves some of these problems (though right now, and
no offense to the author, I prefer sPatch because it doesn't crash and I can
change the grid colors :)

Happy tracing,

Tim Soderstrom
TigerHawk

Post a reply to this message

OK I am good at making a big ununderstandable waffle, I'll briefly explain.
The original model is of 8 points, consisting of two circles of four points
connected symmetrically by lengths making a cylinder.  The aim is to add 4
more ponits, a new circle in the middle.  One way would be to using the add
tool (shortcut A) a four new nodes along the lengths of the cylinder making
4 nodes with two lengths each side:

-----
|  |  |
|  |  |
-----

TO:

-----
|  |  |
* * *
|  |  |
-----

Where the *'s are new nodes.  Simply then just join these nodes up
horizontally (after creating them vertically).  Thats the best I can do to
explain it.

Peter Cracknell

www.petecracknell.co.uk


TigerHawk <tig### [at] sticnet> wrote in message
news:396CA29C.64EC9553@stic.net...
> > There are two ways I have experimented with to achieve this, though
> > obviously not as fast or easy as they could be.  THe first is simply to
move
> > one of the points towards the middle and extrude downwards - this does
not
> > work if you already have a large cylinder though.  The second you many
not
> > be aware of is creating another circle, placing it in the middle and
> > attaching all the nodes the joining lines.  It does mean you have to
> > manually re create the piece in the centre and right click all the nodes
in,
> > but it does work.  Maybe a good suggestion would be a function whereby
the
> > number of extrusions can be multiplied by a factor, to complicate/more
> > populate the mesh without manually doing it.  Well I hope thats not too
much
> > of a mess.
>
> Hmm...what I don't understand is how one can add the circle to the others?
If
> you have 2 circles joined together:
>
> ------      <-circle
> |      |       <-joining points
> |      |
> ------      <- circle
>
> How can you fuse the third on?  Because there is already a nicely created
series
> of patches. That's what I am having trouble with, adding things like that
to go
> from simplistic to complex. I'm 'kinda' following both of you, but not
really :)
> (ryan: I wouldn't mind seeing your spatch portion of your model if that
okay).
> Anyways, I hope HamaPatch solves some of these problems (though right now,
and
> no offense to the author, I prefer sPatch because it doesn't crash and I
can
> change the grid colors :)
>
> Happy tracing,
>
> Tim Soderstrom
> TigerHawk
>

Post a reply to this message

i just emailed you.

TigerHawk wrote:
> 
> > There are two ways I have experimented with to achieve this, though
> > obviously not as fast or easy as they could be.  THe first is simply to move
> > one of the points towards the middle and extrude downwards - this does not
> > work if you already have a large cylinder though.  The second you many not
> > be aware of is creating another circle, placing it in the middle and
> > attaching all the nodes the joining lines.  It does mean you have to
> > manually re create the piece in the centre and right click all the nodes in,
> > but it does work.  Maybe a good suggestion would be a function whereby the
> > number of extrusions can be multiplied by a factor, to complicate/more
> > populate the mesh without manually doing it.  Well I hope thats not too much
> > of a mess.
> 
> Hmm...what I don't understand is how one can add the circle to the others? If
> you have 2 circles joined together:
> 
> ------      <-circle
> |      |       <-joining points
> |      |
> ------      <- circle
> 
> How can you fuse the third on?  Because there is already a nicely created series
> of patches. That's what I am having trouble with, adding things like that to go
> from simplistic to complex. I'm 'kinda' following both of you, but not really :)
> (ryan: I wouldn't mind seeing your spatch portion of your model if that okay).
> Anyways, I hope HamaPatch solves some of these problems (though right now, and
> no offense to the author, I prefer sPatch because it doesn't crash and I can
> change the grid colors :)
> 
> Happy tracing,
> 
> Tim Soderstrom
> TigerHawk

Post a reply to this message

Oh, you mean add it on to the END of the cylinder? Not the middle? Yeah, that
makes sense. But what about for more complex objects like heads?

<shrug>

Tim Soderstrom


Peter Cracknell wrote:

> OK I am good at making a big ununderstandable waffle, I'll briefly explain.
> The original model is of 8 points, consisting of two circles of four points
> connected symmetrically by lengths making a cylinder.  The aim is to add 4
> more ponits, a new circle in the middle.  One way would be to using the add
> tool (shortcut A) a four new nodes along the lengths of the cylinder making
> 4 nodes with two lengths each side:
>

Post a reply to this message

I found out what I was looking for and I thought I might share it with the
rest of you:

My problem was that I simply couldn't add points to an already created
spline - well, I finally figured out how to do it. It's actually quite
simple - put the mouse at or near one of the points in your spline, then
just hit 'A' and you'll get a new point on the spline!

That makes things oh so much easier and I just wanted to share that tidbit
(though you probably already knew that ;)

Tim Soderstrom
PsiTron / Tigerhawk

Post a reply to this message

oh that!?  that's all you wanted to know!?!?  i guess our answers had
you pretty stumped for a while then.

TigerHawk wrote:
> 
> I found out what I was looking for and I thought I might share it with the
> rest of you:
> 
> My problem was that I simply couldn't add points to an already created
> spline - well, I finally figured out how to do it. It's actually quite
> simple - put the mouse at or near one of the points in your spline, then
> just hit 'A' and you'll get a new point on the spline!
> 
> That makes things oh so much easier and I just wanted to share that tidbit
> (though you probably already knew that ;)
> 
> Tim Soderstrom
> PsiTron / Tigerhawk

Post a reply to this message

> oh that!?  that's all you wanted to know!?!?  i guess our answers had
> you pretty stumped for a while then.

Hehaehae, yes a bit :) There are things about sPatch that still do stump be, but
that fact that you can do what I thought you couldn't helps alot :) I suppose it
was more my fault because I really had not messed with it enough, but the
tutorials are rather complex and I really just wanted the basics. Oh well :)

Thanks for the help anyways, hehehe (the model is pretty cool, by the way)

Tim Soderstrom
PsiTron / TigerHawk

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