Chris or Thorsten can correct my interpertation if I am wrong.
My understanding of the new limitations is that you can not change
povray source to hook to or from other programs directly. It does not
limit you from calling povray from a shellout from your program.
Hopefully this will aleviate some of that pain! :)
David Reynolds

Roland Mas wrote:
> 
> "Thorsten Froehlich" <fro### [at] charliecnsiitedu> writes:
> 
> > Try reading it again. And *please* dig out a dictionary and find the
> > word "interface"!  Is "Interface" == "Graphical User Interface"? SO
> > read the whole passage again. :-)
> 
>   Correct me if I'm wrong... Does it mean I may _use_ the provided
> hooks (that are program-to-program interfaces) and plug them into
> _other_ functions (such as the ones that are a human-to-program
> interface, graphical or not), if I do not modify these hooks? Or am I
> once again completely off the point?
> 
> Roland.
> --
> Les francophones m'appellent Roland Mas,
> English speakers call me Rowlannd' Mass,
> Nihongode hanasu hitoha [Lolando Masu] to iimasu.
> Choisissez ! Take your pick ! Erande kudasai !

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In article <m37### [at] rpc66acratrcojp> , mas### [at] acratrcojp (Roland Mas)
wrote:
>> Try reading it again. And *please* dig out a dictionary and find the
>> word "interface"!  Is "Interface" == "Graphical User Interface"? SO
>> read the whole passage again. :-)
>
>  Correct me if I'm wrong... Does it mean I may _use_ the provided
>hooks (that are program-to-program interfaces) and plug them into
>_other_ functions (such as the ones that are a human-to-program
>interface, graphical or not), if I do not modify these hooks? Or am I
>once again completely off the point?

Note that I do *not* speak for the team (thats why an admin is here!), so all I say is
my opinion.

But you are right (this is a fact, not my opinion), this is how it is!  For example
Moray does exactly this, it uses the provided hooks and interface to access the
Windows version of POV-Ray.


Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany

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In article <35F3D4BB.5FF7D9BB@bellsouth.net> , David Reynolds <dat### [at] bellsouthnet> 
wrote:

>Chris or Thorsten can correct my interpertation if I am wrong.

Only Chris Young can correct you, he is the team leader.


Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: Tho### [at] csicom

I am a member of the POV-Ray Team.
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://www.povray.org

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On 07 Sep 1998 11:03:13 +0900, mas### [at] acratrcojp (Roland Mas) wrote:

>par### [at] my-dejanewscom (Ron Parker) writes:
>
>> If you make a Tk interface, please keep in mind that some of us might
>> want to use it with Perl/Tk.  
>
>  Sorry guy, I think I'll do it in Python. Not because I think it's
>better than Perl (I have _never_ written any Python yet, don't charge
>me for religion wars), but because I want to try it.

No apology necessary; I was just pointing out that if you make a Tk
interface to POVRay, no matter what language you plan to use it with,
and if you somehow manage to find a way to distribute it legally,
please try to make it general enough that we can use the same
interface with other tools like Perl, TCL, or even (gasp) Java.

I might be completely off my mark. I'm assuming that Tk is like ARexx
or OLE Automation, in that it allows you to export functionality from
an application for use in a scripting language.  If not, then ignore
my deranged babbling.  If so, then such exports qualify as a new
interface under the terms of the povlegal that Thorsten posted.

Also, please don't think I pointed out the new paragraph in the 3.1
version of the povlegal document to make life hard for you. Indeed, I
wish it weren't there myself, as I too have grand plans that require a
new interface to POV-Ray (and not just a GUI.)  I'll probably still do
an implementation of that new interface, but I can't distribute it
without getting it into the official version first.  But, as with all
changes, the POV Team has a good reason for limiting new interfaces,
and I have to say I agree with them.  So we just have to work within
the parameters that we have been given.

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par### [at] mailfwicom (Ronald L. Parker) writes:

> No apology necessary; I was just pointing out that if you make a Tk
> interface to POVRay, no matter what language you plan to use it with,
> and if you somehow manage to find a way to distribute it legally,
> please try to make it general enough that we can use the same
> interface with other tools like Perl, TCL, or even (gasp) Java.
> 
> I might be completely off my mark. I'm assuming that Tk is like ARexx
> or OLE Automation, in that it allows you to export functionality from
> an application for use in a scripting language.  If not, then ignore
> my deranged babbling.  If so, then such exports qualify as a new
> interface under the terms of the povlegal that Thorsten posted.

  I do not know either ARexx or OLE Automation (I have never even heard of
them before), but I'm afraid you're a bit wrong here. As far as	I know
(which is pretty small I have to admit), Tk is a toolkit. That means, it
provides functions to draw windows and buttons and file selectors, and
other functions to get the results of the actions performed by the user on
these widgets (let's call them by their name), but it is no real
programming language. You cannot specify the actions to do when the
kill-everything-and-quit button is pressed. That's why you need an
underlying language beneath, such as Python. Tk tells the Python program
that the k-e-a-q button has been clicked, and the Python program actually
does it.

  To make it short, I surely could make the interface portable between
languages, but only its look, because what happens when you click here or
there is no part of it.

> Also, please don't think I pointed out the new paragraph in the 3.1
> version of the povlegal document to make life hard for you.

  I don't. And I too understand why it exists.

Roland,
closer and closer to get paid. Closer and closer to buy a PC. And start.
-- 
Les francophones m'appellent Roland Mas,
English speakers call me Rowlannd' Mass,
Nihongode hanasu hitoha [Lolando Masu] to iimasu.
Choisissez ! Take your pick ! Erande kudasai !

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On 08 Sep 1998 09:24:22 +0900, mas### [at] acratrcojp (Roland Mas) wrote:

>  To make it short, I surely could make the interface portable between
>languages, but only its look, because what happens when you click here or
>there is no part of it.

Ah.  If that's all it is, then I suspect that a new GUI frontend
wouldn't be an issue.  The only issue is if you actually add
functionality to POV-Ray to make it easier for your frontend to
interface.  

Though I think that if you look, you'll find lots of GUI frontends
already for POV-Ray.  Perhaps even some written in Tcl/Tk.

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par### [at] mailfwicom (Ronald L. Parker) writes:

> Though I think that if you look, you'll find lots of GUI frontends
> already for POV-Ray.  Perhaps even some written in Tcl/Tk.

  Oh, I probably would, sure. But where's the fun?

Roland.
-- 
Les francophones m'appellent Roland Mas,
English speakers call me Rowlannd' Mass,
Nihongode hanasu hitoha [Lolando Masu] to iimasu.
Choisissez ! Take your pick ! Erande kudasai !

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par### [at] mailfwicom (Ronald L. Parker) writes:

> Though I think that if you look, you'll find lots of GUI frontends
> already for POV-Ray.  Perhaps even some written in Tcl/Tk.

  Oh, I probably would, sure. Altavista gave me at least this:
<URL:http://www.pjbcn.demon.co.uk/povtcl.htm>. But where's the fun?

  And anyway, I'd like to make a complete interface like the one under
Windows, maybe swallowing an Emacs windows (in order to include the
Greatest Editor Ever). Python exist on many platforms, so do Tk and
Emacs. Even the intersection of these includes at least Windows (3, 4, 5),
Mac, OS/2 and (of course) Unix. Probably more. So...

Roland.
-- 
Les francophones m'appellent Roland Mas,
English speakers call me Rowlannd' Mass,
Nihongode hanasu hitoha [Lolando Masu] to iimasu.
Choisissez ! Take your pick ! Erande kudasai !

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On 08 Sep 1998 09:55:07 +0900, mas### [at] acratrcojp (Roland Mas) wrote:

>par### [at] mailfwicom (Ronald L. Parker) writes:
>
>> Though I think that if you look, you'll find lots of GUI frontends
>> already for POV-Ray.  Perhaps even some written in Tcl/Tk.
>
>  Oh, I probably would, sure. Altavista gave me at least this:
><URL:http://www.pjbcn.demon.co.uk/povtcl.htm>. But where's the fun?
>
>  And anyway, I'd like to make a complete interface like the one under
>Windows, maybe swallowing an Emacs windows (in order to include the
>Greatest Editor Ever). Python exist on many platforms, so do Tk and
>Emacs. Even the intersection of these includes at least Windows (3, 4, 5),
>Mac, OS/2 and (of course) Unix. Probably more. So...
>
>Roland.
>-- 

I don't want to start a long sub-thread about this, but what is so
great about the practically lengendary "Emacs" editor I keep hearing
agout? I tried a DOS port of it a long time ago, and found it very
large and cumbersome to use. Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not
trying to start a fight. I simply want to know what is the beauty of
Emacs that I overlooked? So many satisfied users must know something
about the program that I don't.   :)

Thanks,
Glen Berry

Home -> http://www.ezwv.com/~mclilith/index.html
IMP  -> http://www.algonet.se/~jhubert/MovieProject/index.html

To reply via personal email, remove the "X" from Xno### [at] ezwvcom

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Xno### [at] ezwvcom (G. Berry) writes:

> I don't want to start a long sub-thread about this, but what is so
> great about the practically lengendary "Emacs" editor I keep hearing
> agout? I tried a DOS port of it a long time ago, and found it very
> large and cumbersome to use. Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not
> trying to start a fight. I simply want to know what is the beauty of
> Emacs that I overlooked? So many satisfied users must know something
> about the program that I don't.   :)

  Well... it's big. It's powerful. It's highly customizable and
programmable (in Emacs Lisp). It can do almost anything (it is said that
the only thing it cannot do is make coffee for you): edit files, read mail,
read news, browse the web, display a calendar (with holidays), play games,
access FTP sites just like local directories, edit directories, etc. But
the most relevant characteristics (in the case of POV-Ray in particular and
programming in general) is syntax highlighting, automatic completion,
syntax checking, and calling of external programs (like make or
x-povray). You can do everything from your Emacs, edit your file, launch
POV-Ray, transfer the image on your web page via FTP...

  But, it's big. It's really big. It often uses several megabytes of
memory. And it's sometimes slow (it's interpreted Lisp, even if somewhat
byte-compiled). And its key combinations (shortcuts) sometimes seem really
cryptic to Windows user (ctrl-x ctrl-s for saving a file is not really the
Windows standard, nor is it the Mac one - it tends to be the Unix one,
though).

  Well. I personnally love Emacs, but I can see its drawbacks. I never saw
a better file editor (except vi in the case of very small files you want to
load fast), though.

Roland.

[Followup-To: junk, here is not the place to discuss these things.]

R.
-- 
Les francophones m'appellent Roland Mas,
English speakers call me Rowlannd' Mass,
Nihongode hanasu hitoha [Lolando Masu] to iimasu.
Choisissez ! Take your pick ! Erande kudasai !

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