Christopher James Huff wrote:

> Now stop being childish.

Childish? You are the one who doesn't accepts reality.

> If you have a complaint about how Warp has 
> treated you, this is not the way to go about it. Warp's message was 
> informative and straightforward, not insulting or offensive, and 
> certainly didn't deserve this sort of response. Warp doesn't deserve the 
> impression you give of him, either.

"There's nothing bad in quoting only partially when only the relevant
part needs to be quoted. However, it's not ok to rely only on the quoted
text without reading the whole original article. That's not only impolite,
it's also stupid."

"The master programmer speaks again..."

You are WAAYY TOO WRONG my friend on this one, i think is exactly the 
way he is behaving. Maybe is not his natural state and had a bad day, 
but any way he should apologize to Bill and the others he offended. Is 
the right thin to do.

> 
> And as for "And for the POV-Team to consider, not you!", Warp is a 
> member of the POV-Ray TAG. One of the functions of the TAG is to serve 
> as public representatives of the POV-Team. Aside from giving assistence 
> to users of the program, we filter out useless stuff and bring important 
> information to the attention of the POV Team. You have not given any 
> reasons that would make J worth the time to look at. Warp was simply 
> doing his job as a TAG member.
> 

Ok, i was wrong on this, i APOLOGIZE for this. See... is not that hard 
to write it. Warp, are you seeing this?

Any way, the programmers and the one who has the last word about a 
computer language are the ones who use them, so i consider that the ones 
who should judge this is The POV-Team. I don't know anything about this 
language, i found it googleing The Net, i thought it would be of some 
interest and maybe i could help the POV-Team, that is why i wrote "to 
consider" not as a "must program in this language".


All this mess just because an TAG member is TOO GOOD to apologize, you 
know pride is a weakness not strenght.

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:47:01 -0400, Saul Luizaga <sau### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> I don't know anything about this 
> language, i found it googleing The Net, i thought it would be of some 
> interest and maybe i could help the POV-Team, that is why i wrote "to 
> consider" not as a "must program in this language".

Reposting it two hours later from povray.general to povray.programming after
receiving first answer which questioned worth if this language with valuable
arguments.

> All this mess just because an TAG member is TOO GOOD to apologize, you 
> know pride is a weakness not strenght.

Sorry, I do not see any reason why anybody should apologize in this thread.
Perhaps only you for one rude post and multiposting. Please do not mix your
not interesting suggestion with personal problems between Bill and Warp.
Please continue offtopic discussion in dedicated group. Thanks.

ABX

Post a reply to this message

In article <3f9671e1@news.povray.org> , Saul Luizaga <sau### [at] netscapenet>
wrote:

> You are right about everything. I let myself be misunderstood. I
> apologize for this. I wrote to this user this way because he has write
> to others in the same AND even more rude tone. I know that is a "right"
> for everybody to write in this newsgroup server, but users, like this
> one, who offend others, even if they are at the TAG, should be moderated
> by a superior authority or be expelled.

Well, if you don't like these groups, you are welcome to not visit them.

There was absolutely nothing rude about Warps post, contrary to your reply
to it.  And given your suggestion, I do not even want to think about how I
would have responded had I taken it seriously - I considered it a joke and
didn't bother to reply...

    Thorsten Froehlich, POV-Team

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich
e-mail: mac### [at] povrayorg

I am a member of the POV-Ray Team.
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

Post a reply to this message

In article <3f9642e3@news.povray.org> , Saul Luizaga <sau### [at] netscapenet>
wrote:

>   >   The relevance of this in raytracing is to be questioned.
>
> Have you read the subject? that is EXACTLY THE POINT!!! Mr. knew it
> all!!! And for the POV-Team to consider, not you!

Had you read the FAQ group you would have noticed that filtering the noise
is one of Warps "jobs" as a TAG member.  He did so in a very nice way, and
your response is not acceptable conduct on this news server.

As you want a response from the POV-Team, here you go, and I think the
answer is very clear and in a tone about as friendly as you can expect after
demanding a reply the way you did:

The language will *never* be even remotely considered for use as a scripting
or implementation language of POV-Ray.  The best thing to say about the
suggested language would be that it is useless unreadable junk!

I would recommend reading < http://www.paulgraham.com/popular.html> for a
funny lecture about "good" programming language design...

    Thorsten Froehlich, POV-Team

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich
e-mail: mac### [at] povrayorg

I am a member of the POV-Ray Team.
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

Post a reply to this message

Saul Luizaga <sau### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> "There's nothing bad in quoting only partially when only the relevant
> part needs to be quoted. However, it's not ok to rely only on the quoted
> text without reading the whole original article. That's not only impolite,
> it's also stupid."

> "The master programmer speaks again..."

  My newsreader must be broken since I can't find those texts in
this thread.

  Why are you quoting something from a completely different group from
a completely different context and written to someone else (unless you
are Bill DeWitt)? How are those quotes relevant to this thread?

  If you don't like me disagreeing with your suggestion about using
a certain programming language in POV-Ray, then why don't you present
answers to my questions instead of attacking me with irrelevant
off-topic quotes from somewhere else?

  And I have an extra question for you, if you would please answer it:

  What have I done to you that deserves such an attack, besides questioning
the relevance of that programming language in raytracing?

-- 
#macro N(D)#if(D>99)cylinder{M()#local D=div(D,104);M().5,2pigment{rgb M()}}
N(D)#end#end#macro M()<mod(D,13)-6mod(div(D,13)8)-3,10>#end blob{
N(11117333955)N(4254934330)N(3900569407)N(7382340)N(3358)N(970)}//  - Warp -

Post a reply to this message

In article <3f9689b0@news.povray.org>,
 Saul Luizaga <sau### [at] netscapenet> wrote:

> Childish? You are the one who doesn't accepts reality.

Right...
Maybe this is just a language issue, but being childish doesn't have 
much to do with accepting reality. "A? You are the one who B!" doesn't 
make much sense in English. I wasn't saying you didn't accept reality, I 
was saying you were acting like a two year old throwing a hissy fit.


> You are WAAYY TOO WRONG my friend on this one, i think is exactly the 
> way he is behaving. Maybe is not his natural state and had a bad day, 
> but any way he should apologize to Bill and the others he offended. Is 
> the right thin to do.

You are completely missing the point. If you have a complaint about 
Warp, you should first talk to him about it, and if that fails, talk to 
a member of the TAG or POV Team. Publicly flaming and slandering him the 
first time he replies to a message you post, regardless of what he said 
to you, is entirely the wrong way to handle it. *That* was the behavior 
I was calling childish, and it is simply unacceptable here.


> Ok, i was wrong on this, i APOLOGIZE for this. See... is not that hard 
> to write it. Warp, are you seeing this?

It's apparently difficult to write in such a way that it is believable. 
In any case, this is an extremely minor thing...that was a "for your 
information" correction, not a reaction to a given offense.


> Any way, the programmers and the one who has the last word about a 
> computer language are the ones who use them, so i consider that the ones 
> who should judge this is The POV-Team. I don't know anything about this 
> language, i found it googleing The Net, i thought it would be of some 
> interest and maybe i could help the POV-Team, that is why i wrote "to 
> consider" not as a "must program in this language".

You appeared to be knowledgeable about this language, and seemed to 
think it applied to POV-Ray somehow. Did you honestly expect not to get 
any questions about it? Especially when you were so vague about what the 
language could do and why it they should look at it? What is wrong with 
wanting to know more about it, or why you suggested it? Or with 
correcting a misconception about the type of thing that could help POV?
As others have said, if you didn't want it to be discussed, you 
shouldn't have posted it in a public discussion group.


> All this mess just because an TAG member is TOO GOOD to apologize, you 
> know pride is a weakness not strenght.

You seem to be really stretching here. Warp has a single, minor dispute 
with someone who is known for such things, and you attack him without 
giving him any chance to defend himself? You are overreacting by far. 
Your own recent messages have been far worse than anything I've ever 
seen from Warp.

-- 
Christopher James Huff <cja### [at] earthlinknet>
http://home.earthlink.net/~cjameshuff/
POV-Ray TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg
http://tag.povray.org/

Post a reply to this message

All i can say i that i'm sorry, if you followed the thread you will 
notice that i apologize everyone, even Warp.

I was only trying to help The POV-Team and "defend" an "innocent", but i 
did all wrong. I'm truly Sorry. You know, i admire the POV-Team and i 
like very much POV-Ray, and the last thing i want is that someone from 
the POV-Team got mad at me and i defend the guilty and accused and 
innocent POV TAG-Team member, this is a disgrace for me.

I will post as little as possible.






Thorsten Froehlich wrote:

> In article <3f9642e3@news.povray.org> , Saul Luizaga <sau### [at] netscapenet>
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>  >   The relevance of this in raytracing is to be questioned.
>>
>>Have you read the subject? that is EXACTLY THE POINT!!! Mr. knew it
>>all!!! And for the POV-Team to consider, not you!
> 
> 
> Had you read the FAQ group you would have noticed that filtering the noise
> is one of Warps "jobs" as a TAG member.  He did so in a very nice way, and
> your response is not acceptable conduct on this news server.
> 
> As you want a response from the POV-Team, here you go, and I think the
> answer is very clear and in a tone about as friendly as you can expect after
> demanding a reply the way you did:
> 
> The language will *never* be even remotely considered for use as a scripting
> or implementation language of POV-Ray.  The best thing to say about the
> suggested language would be that it is useless unreadable junk!
> 
> I would recommend reading < http://www.paulgraham.com/popular.html> for a
> funny lecture about "good" programming language design...
> 
>     Thorsten Froehlich, POV-Team
> 
> ____________________________________________________
> Thorsten Froehlich
> e-mail: mac### [at] povrayorg
> 
> I am a member of the POV-Ray Team.
> Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

Post a reply to this message

In article <3f96f972@news.povray.org>, sau### [at] netscapenet says...
> I was only trying to help The POV-Team and "defend" an "innocent", but i 
> did all wrong. I'm truly Sorry. You know, i admire the POV-Team and i 
> like very much POV-Ray, and the last thing i want is that someone from 
> the POV-Team got mad at me and i defend the guilty and accused and 
> innocent POV TAG-Team member, this is a disgrace for me.
> 
> I will post as little as possible.
> 

Well.. Bill Dewitt is a bit like a bald guy with a big splotchy birthmark 
on his head. One can't help be start itching to rub him the wrong way the 
moment you see him coming. The fact of the matter is that he 
unfortunately often bring it on himself. However, someone not knowing the 
history of conflict that exists between Bill and others may rightfully 
feel the need to defend them.

In any case, posting as little as possible is not necessary. Just apply a 
bit more care and caution about what you read and how you reply. ;) 
Anyone can goof up and interpret things incorrectly, even when they are 
trying not to.

-- 
void main () {

    call functional_code()
  else
    call crash_windows();
}

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Thank you for your understanding, i will post carefully

Post a reply to this message

This discussion is not NEW. I know we had it several times.

Someone WHO ALREADY has taken a lot of time  (and heartblood) to learn other
scripting languages - comes to POV-Ray and has the imagination  he could
save the time to learn POV-Ray SDL if  he can  alternatively "Help POV-Ray"
to learn his favourite scripting language.

There is quite some logic about it. But - this way it wont work.

My tip for Mr. Luizaga. You want more J in POV-Ray? Here is what you can do:
1. First learn POV-Ray SDL as it ist. Show them that you know it even better
then they.
    Then you are in a better position to suggest improvements.
2. Then proof your knowledge in programing and support POV-Ray developement,
your contributions
   will be welcome if they make sense.

--Theo
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POV-Ray 3.5. * Download free at: http://www.it-berater.org/smpov.htm

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