par### [at] my-dejanewscom (Ron Parker) writes:

> If you make a Tk interface, please keep in mind that some of us might
> want to use it with Perl/Tk.  

  Sorry guy, I think I'll do it in Python. Not because I think it's
better than Perl (I have _never_ written any Python yet, don't charge
me for religion wars), but because I want to try it.

> Also, keep in mind that the new POVLEGAL
> specifically forbids making new interfaces, so you won't be able to
> distribute your changes without the blessing of the POV-Team.

  Er... <URL:http://www.povray.org/docs/pov3002f.htm#ref 40 pri 0>
does not say a word about making interfaces. And my
/usr/local/lib/povray3/povlegal.doc does not either. So for now I
haven't heard of such limitations. Maybe both of these are out of date
(you seem to refer to a new one), but even in this case, there's no
way I'll download a Windows version just for this file. So, could you
please send (or post) the part of this file you're referring to?

  Thanks,

Roland.
-- 
Les francophones m'appellent Roland Mas,
English speakers call me Rowlannd' Mass,
Nihongode hanasu hitoha [Lolando Masu] to iimasu.
Choisissez ! Take your pick ! Erande kudasai !

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>par### [at] my-dejanewscom (Ron Parker) writes:
>
>> If you make a Tk interface, please keep in mind that some of us might
>> want to use it with Perl/Tk.  
>
>  Sorry guy, I think I'll do it in Python. Not because I think it's
>better than Perl (I have _never_ written any Python yet, don't charge
>me for religion wars), but because I want to try it.
>
>> Also, keep in mind that the new POVLEGAL
>> specifically forbids making new interfaces, so you won't be able to
>> distribute your changes without the blessing of the POV-Team.

He is refering to the last paragraph:

=>To allow POV-Ray to interface with outside programs, the official
=>versions of POV-Ray include several "hooks" for it to call other
=>tasks.  For example: the generic part of POV-Ray provides
=>operating system shell-out commands. The Windows version has GUI-
=>extension hooks and the ability to replace the text editor.
=>Modification to these hooks or other officially supported
=>interface mechanisms to increase functionality beyond that of the
=>official version IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

How do you read it?

>  Er... <URL:http://www.povray.org/docs/pov3002f.htm#ref 40 pri 0>
>does not say a word about making interfaces. And my
>/usr/local/lib/povray3/povlegal.doc does not either. So for now I
>haven't heard of such limitations. Maybe both of these are out of date
>(you seem to refer to a new one), but even in this case, there's no
>way I'll download a Windows version just for this file. So, could you
>please send (or post) the part of this file you're referring to?

I posted it in povray.binaries.programming as "POVLEGAL.DOC for POV-Ray 3.1"


Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany

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"Thorsten Froehlich" <fro### [at] charliecnsiitedu> writes:

> He is refering to the last paragraph:
> 
> =>To allow POV-Ray to interface with outside programs, the official
> =>versions of POV-Ray include several "hooks" for it to call other
> =>tasks.  For example: the generic part of POV-Ray provides
> =>operating system shell-out commands. The Windows version has GUI-
> =>extension hooks and the ability to replace the text editor.
> =>Modification to these hooks or other officially supported
> =>interface mechanisms to increase functionality beyond that of the
> =>official version IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.
> 
> How do you read it?

  Aow, that hurts... Anyway, that means I was going to be a complete
outlaw. If I may ask, why such a limitation?

> I posted it in povray.binaries.programming as "POVLEGAL.DOC for
> POV-Ray 3.1"

  I seem to have missed it (I don't read p.b.programming really often).
Sorry again,

Roland.

-- 
Les francophones m'appellent Roland Mas,
English speakers call me Rowlannd' Mass,
Nihongode hanasu hitoha [Lolando Masu] to iimasu.
Choisissez ! Take your pick ! Erande kudasai !

Post a reply to this message

>  Aow, that hurts... Anyway, that means I was going to be a complete
>outlaw. If I may ask, why such a limitation?

Try reading it again. And *please* dig out a dictionary and find the word "interface"!
Is "Interface" == "Graphical User Interface"? SO read the whole passage again. :-)

>  I seem to have missed it (I don't read p.b.programming really often).

Ups, no sorry, you got me wrong! I just posted it there today! No reason the sorry :-)


Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany

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"Thorsten Froehlich" <fro### [at] charliecnsiitedu> writes:

> Try reading it again. And *please* dig out a dictionary and find the
> word "interface"!  Is "Interface" == "Graphical User Interface"? SO
> read the whole passage again. :-)

  Correct me if I'm wrong... Does it mean I may _use_ the provided
hooks (that are program-to-program interfaces) and plug them into
_other_ functions (such as the ones that are a human-to-program
interface, graphical or not), if I do not modify these hooks? Or am I
once again completely off the point?

Roland.
-- 
Les francophones m'appellent Roland Mas,
English speakers call me Rowlannd' Mass,
Nihongode hanasu hitoha [Lolando Masu] to iimasu.
Choisissez ! Take your pick ! Erande kudasai !

Post a reply to this message

Chris or Thorsten can correct my interpertation if I am wrong.
My understanding of the new limitations is that you can not change
povray source to hook to or from other programs directly. It does not
limit you from calling povray from a shellout from your program.
Hopefully this will aleviate some of that pain! :)
David Reynolds

Roland Mas wrote:
> 
> "Thorsten Froehlich" <fro### [at] charliecnsiitedu> writes:
> 
> > Try reading it again. And *please* dig out a dictionary and find the
> > word "interface"!  Is "Interface" == "Graphical User Interface"? SO
> > read the whole passage again. :-)
> 
>   Correct me if I'm wrong... Does it mean I may _use_ the provided
> hooks (that are program-to-program interfaces) and plug them into
> _other_ functions (such as the ones that are a human-to-program
> interface, graphical or not), if I do not modify these hooks? Or am I
> once again completely off the point?
> 
> Roland.
> --
> Les francophones m'appellent Roland Mas,
> English speakers call me Rowlannd' Mass,
> Nihongode hanasu hitoha [Lolando Masu] to iimasu.
> Choisissez ! Take your pick ! Erande kudasai !

Post a reply to this message

In article <m37### [at] rpc66acratrcojp> , mas### [at] acratrcojp (Roland Mas)
wrote:
>> Try reading it again. And *please* dig out a dictionary and find the
>> word "interface"!  Is "Interface" == "Graphical User Interface"? SO
>> read the whole passage again. :-)
>
>  Correct me if I'm wrong... Does it mean I may _use_ the provided
>hooks (that are program-to-program interfaces) and plug them into
>_other_ functions (such as the ones that are a human-to-program
>interface, graphical or not), if I do not modify these hooks? Or am I
>once again completely off the point?

Note that I do *not* speak for the team (thats why an admin is here!), so all I say is
my opinion.

But you are right (this is a fact, not my opinion), this is how it is!  For example
Moray does exactly this, it uses the provided hooks and interface to access the
Windows version of POV-Ray.


Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany

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In article <35F3D4BB.5FF7D9BB@bellsouth.net> , David Reynolds <dat### [at] bellsouthnet> 
wrote:

>Chris or Thorsten can correct my interpertation if I am wrong.

Only Chris Young can correct you, he is the team leader.


Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: Tho### [at] csicom

I am a member of the POV-Ray Team.
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://www.povray.org

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On 07 Sep 1998 11:03:13 +0900, mas### [at] acratrcojp (Roland Mas) wrote:

>par### [at] my-dejanewscom (Ron Parker) writes:
>
>> If you make a Tk interface, please keep in mind that some of us might
>> want to use it with Perl/Tk.  
>
>  Sorry guy, I think I'll do it in Python. Not because I think it's
>better than Perl (I have _never_ written any Python yet, don't charge
>me for religion wars), but because I want to try it.

No apology necessary; I was just pointing out that if you make a Tk
interface to POVRay, no matter what language you plan to use it with,
and if you somehow manage to find a way to distribute it legally,
please try to make it general enough that we can use the same
interface with other tools like Perl, TCL, or even (gasp) Java.

I might be completely off my mark. I'm assuming that Tk is like ARexx
or OLE Automation, in that it allows you to export functionality from
an application for use in a scripting language.  If not, then ignore
my deranged babbling.  If so, then such exports qualify as a new
interface under the terms of the povlegal that Thorsten posted.

Also, please don't think I pointed out the new paragraph in the 3.1
version of the povlegal document to make life hard for you. Indeed, I
wish it weren't there myself, as I too have grand plans that require a
new interface to POV-Ray (and not just a GUI.)  I'll probably still do
an implementation of that new interface, but I can't distribute it
without getting it into the official version first.  But, as with all
changes, the POV Team has a good reason for limiting new interfaces,
and I have to say I agree with them.  So we just have to work within
the parameters that we have been given.

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par### [at] mailfwicom (Ronald L. Parker) writes:

> No apology necessary; I was just pointing out that if you make a Tk
> interface to POVRay, no matter what language you plan to use it with,
> and if you somehow manage to find a way to distribute it legally,
> please try to make it general enough that we can use the same
> interface with other tools like Perl, TCL, or even (gasp) Java.
> 
> I might be completely off my mark. I'm assuming that Tk is like ARexx
> or OLE Automation, in that it allows you to export functionality from
> an application for use in a scripting language.  If not, then ignore
> my deranged babbling.  If so, then such exports qualify as a new
> interface under the terms of the povlegal that Thorsten posted.

  I do not know either ARexx or OLE Automation (I have never even heard of
them before), but I'm afraid you're a bit wrong here. As far as	I know
(which is pretty small I have to admit), Tk is a toolkit. That means, it
provides functions to draw windows and buttons and file selectors, and
other functions to get the results of the actions performed by the user on
these widgets (let's call them by their name), but it is no real
programming language. You cannot specify the actions to do when the
kill-everything-and-quit button is pressed. That's why you need an
underlying language beneath, such as Python. Tk tells the Python program
that the k-e-a-q button has been clicked, and the Python program actually
does it.

  To make it short, I surely could make the interface portable between
languages, but only its look, because what happens when you click here or
there is no part of it.

> Also, please don't think I pointed out the new paragraph in the 3.1
> version of the povlegal document to make life hard for you.

  I don't. And I too understand why it exists.

Roland,
closer and closer to get paid. Closer and closer to buy a PC. And start.
-- 
Les francophones m'appellent Roland Mas,
English speakers call me Rowlannd' Mass,
Nihongode hanasu hitoha [Lolando Masu] to iimasu.
Choisissez ! Take your pick ! Erande kudasai !

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