hi,

"Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> ...
> The word 'diversification' is closer to what I was getting at. Life seems driven
> towards diversity, both in genes and ideas. Maybe it's not its actual purpose
> (is there one?), but it's certainly a result. One could argue we humans are
> doing our best when exploring all sorts of different ideas, while being careful
> not to perpetuate harmful ones. (Maybe I think this way because I prefer reality
> to be interesting, and not like that dark planet from A Wrinkle in Time.)

with you up to and including "result".  mix + mingle freely, ideally.

on the rest, but who decides ?


> ...
> But yeah, I like a good debate, provided all parties are arguing in good faith.

yes, in good faith.

(that then precludes conversation with about any politician who ever walked the
Earth :-))


> ...
> > re space, there's plenty of it :-)
> We should colonize it, truly.

oh man, I misunderstood, completely.  I'd read it as in "elbow room".


> But we should be extra careful not to contaminate
> possible ecosystems. (Ever read the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson?) There

think 'Red' or 'Green', but that must be 20 years ago, longer ?  no memory as
such.

fwiw, re "Sci-Fi", Iain M Banks (in the 'Culture' books) had peoples who
gene-engineered themselves to function in vacuum, for periods of time.
 given that most of space is just that, I like the idea.


> is so much we could do to remove stress from the planet by going outward. So
> much water, so many metals, and a number of power sources are available to us
> out there. (I think India might be making a moon landing here pretty soon...)

this week, fingers crossed.


> ...
> That's good. Personally, I have at times found it hard to feel alone and
> comfortable, even though I live in a rural area. (My personal bubble feels
> really huge sometimes.) The feeling has only gotten worse over the years,
> especially since Airbnb became a thing. People coming in droves, sometimes
> playing loud music at night. It's not always bad but I often feel penned-in,
> since I am not a very outgoing person.

interesting really because, like you, I'd describe myself as not very outgoing,
yet, I envy people who (can afford to) live in, say, Tokyo.  think them real
lucky having the products and services of _millions_ on the doorstep.


> ...
> I agree with you, and it's very messed up. These are actual people.
>
> I was just pointing out a couple possible issues ...

sorry, yes.  it is just that certain issues simply leave me depressed-as-fuck,
and the vision of 200+ self-interested parties ("nation states"), armed to the
teeth (except, to their credit, Costa Rica), "negotiating" in times of looming
crises is one of them.


> ...
> I listened to one of their songs yesterday, and the vocalist seemed very
> familiar. They had a 1996 album, so I'll give that a listen, since that's the
> time period in which I heard her last.

:-)  enjoy.

fwiw, "I don't wanna see what's happening outside"..  while I (we, I guess :-))
can relate to that, the track as such .. lukewarm ?  may have another go as the
"wikipedia blurb" read quite interesting.



regards, jr.

Post a reply to this message

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:

Yay, power's back on! It got knocked out last night, thanks to Tropical Storm
Hilary.

> > But yeah, I like a good debate, provided all parties are arguing in good faith.
>
> yes, in good faith.
>
> (that then precludes conversation with about any politician who ever walked the
> Earth :-))

I'm looking at my country's next presidential election and just shaking my head
`:/

> > ...
> > > re space, there's plenty of it :-)
> > We should colonize it, truly.
>
> oh man, I misunderstood, completely.  I'd read it as in "elbow room".

I guess I meant everything... Having personal space is good for the individual,
and having access to outer space can be good for everyone :)

> > But we should be extra careful not to contaminate
> > possible ecosystems. (Ever read the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson?) There
>
> think 'Red' or 'Green', but that must be 20 years ago, longer ?  no memory as
> such.

It's been about 16 years for me, I think. The 'Reds' were adamant about
preserving Mars' ecosystem. The 'Greens' might have been all about greening up
the place, but I can't remember. Just remember it was mainly about the difficult
job of terraforming Mars, and that it was a good book series.

> fwiw, re "Sci-Fi", Iain M Banks (in the 'Culture' books) had peoples who
> gene-engineered themselves to function in vacuum, for periods of time.
>  given that most of space is just that, I like the idea.

That sounds vaguely familiar...

> > (I think India might be making a moon landing here pretty soon...)
>
> this week, fingers crossed.

Yes! And hopefully this attempt goes better than the last (unfortunate things
happen, unfortunately).

Russia's got a moon mission going too, but I think it has already hit a snag.
With any luck, it won't be a major setback for them.

> > ...
> > That's good. Personally, I have at times found it hard to feel alone and
> > comfortable, even though I live in a rural area. (My personal bubble feels
> > really huge sometimes.) The feeling has only gotten worse over the years,
> > especially since Airbnb became a thing. People coming in droves, sometimes
> > playing loud music at night. It's not always bad but I often feel penned-in,
> > since I am not a very outgoing person.
>
> interesting really because, like you, I'd describe myself as not very outgoing,
> yet, I envy people who (can afford to) live in, say, Tokyo.  think them real
> lucky having the products and services of _millions_ on the doorstep.

It would be nice to order a pizza on a whim, or have a package reliably make it
to my doorstep (and not some post office). But the noise would be too much for
me, I'm pretty sure.

Would greater access to products & services outweigh the busyness of the place
for you? Or maybe the busyness is part of the appeal? I can imagine how seeing
and hearing all the commotion from a cozy apartment would be neat.

> > ...
> > I agree with you, and it's very messed up. These are actual people.
> >
> > I was just pointing out a couple possible issues ...
>
> sorry, yes.  it is just that certain issues simply leave me depressed-as-fuck,
> and the vision of 200+ self-interested parties ("nation states"), armed to the
> teeth (except, to their credit, Costa Rica), "negotiating" in times of looming
> crises is one of them.

Yeah, it sucks. There's probably a middle ground somewhere, with borders and
societies being a bit less... discrete. More continuous. I think it might have a
chance of happening, but it seems there are people and organizations
intentionally causing division.

It's been suggested many times that all world leaders should take a bunch of
mushrooms and meditate on things. It would be great if it helped, but it's also
said people lacking a conscience are drawn to power, or find it easier to stay
there, so, idk.

I read the news almost every day, but I try not to get too upset about it all.

> > ...
> > I listened to one of their songs yesterday, and the vocalist seemed very
> > familiar. They had a 1996 album, so I'll give that a listen, since that's the
> > time period in which I heard her last.
>
> :-)  enjoy.
>
> fwiw, "I don't wanna see what's happening outside"..  while I (we, I guess :-))
> can relate to that, the track as such .. lukewarm ?  may have another go as the
> "wikipedia blurb" read quite interesting.

That might be my least favorite song by him, but I can definitely relate to it.

The song that really made me like the guy is "Some Sunsick Day." It seems to be
about a species that experiences a great disaster, yet manages to rebuild their
society. Happy and sad.

Sam

Post a reply to this message

hi,

"Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> Yay, power's back on! It got knocked out last night, thanks to Tropical Storm
> Hilary.

ah, good.  a "novelty" in that area I read (80 years!).  made me think, another
benefit of "urban" living - priority when restoring services.


> > > (I think India might be making a moon landing here pretty soon...)
> > this week, fingers crossed.
> Yes! And hopefully this attempt goes better than the last (unfortunate things
> happen, unfortunately).

very much hope the second attempt goes well.  (even if that means (the
insufferable ;-)) Mr Modi gets to beat his chest :-))


> Russia's got a moon mission going too, but I think it has already hit a snag.
> With any luck, it won't be a major setback for them.

from where I'm sitting, it looked a little like Russia was trying to "upstage"
India.  in that sense, "poetic justice".  </shrug>


> > > ...
> > > That's good. Personally, I have at times found it hard to feel alone and
> > > comfortable, even though I live in a rural area. ...
> > ...
> > I envy people who (can afford to) live in, say, Tokyo.  think them real
> > lucky having the products and services of _millions_ on the doorstep.
>
> It would be nice to order a pizza on a whim, or have a package reliably make it
> to my doorstep (and not some post office). But the noise would be too much for
> me, I'm pretty sure.
>
> Would greater access to products & services outweigh the busyness of the place
> for you? Or maybe the busyness is part of the appeal? I can imagine how seeing
> and hearing all the commotion from a cozy apartment would be neat.

I think/know the "hustle + bustle" is part of the appeal.  I struggle to see the
noise problem though.  life == "noise" :-)  I remember (vaguely) hearing
grasshoppers and birdsong when little.  silence is a problem because it implies
perceived threat(s) (in the natural world).  another aspect is the "forgetting
to buy a pint of milk" thing.  happens all too frequently to me, these days, so
if shopping meant a 50 miles round-trip, I'd be in trouble :-).


(re-ordered)
> > > ...
> > > But yeah, I like a good debate, provided all parties are arguing in good faith.
> >
> > yes, in good faith.
> >
> > (that then precludes conversation with about any politician who ever walked the
> > Earth :-))
>
> I'm looking at my country's next presidential election and just shaking my head
> `:/

> ...
> It's been suggested many times that all world leaders should take a bunch of
> mushrooms and meditate on things. It would be great if it helped, but it's also
> said people lacking a conscience are drawn to power, or find it easier to stay
> there, so, idk.

:-)  that would be kind of irresponsible too, I'd think that many of those
"leaders" could be vulnerable afterwards, depressed, suicidal, some without
doubt.  how about just "cookies" and MJ Cole's 'Sincere' as background during
debates ?  </grin>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MJ_Cole>


> I read the news almost every day, but I try not to get too upset about it all.

fwiw, I used to be a "news junkie", papers and (BBC) Radio 4.  but, I kept
getting upset.  so I've made changes[*].  like people recommend to do with caged
parrots and other social birds, I leave the radio on, 24/7, just above audible
or "volume up" :-), on a music station[**].  works a treat.

[*] I still "allow" myself 15/20 minutes daily on a news channel, but find more
and more days where I don't bother.
[**] BBC Radio 6Music.  on DAB here, your side of the pond would require
streaming I guess.


> The song that really made me like the guy is "Some Sunsick Day." It seems to be
> about a species that experiences a great disaster, yet manages to rebuild their
> society. Happy and sad.

</phew> ;-) and thanks.


regards, jr.

Post a reply to this message

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> > Yay, power's back on! It got knocked out last night, thanks to Tropical Storm
> > Hilary.
>
> ah, good.  a "novelty" in that area I read (80 years!).  made me think, another
> benefit of "urban" living - priority when restoring services.

A number of the private utilities don't seem to be working out too well for some
of us in the 'states. Things are bound to happen, of course, but sometimes the
frequency of those 'things' is a bit too high. (It's not as bad as Puerto Rico
here, but... that line of thinking doesn't help the people living there :/)

> > > > (I think India might be making a moon landing here pretty soon...)
> > > this week, fingers crossed.
> > Yes! And hopefully this attempt goes better than the last (unfortunate things
> > happen, unfortunately).
>
> very much hope the second attempt goes well.  (even if that means (the
> insufferable ;-)) Mr Modi gets to beat his chest :-))

Any progress is good, as long as it's real and not just to show off. Searching
for water and minerals on the south lunar pole seems like a good goal to me. I
know there's a lot of criticism regarding their space program (e.g. that money
could be used for people in need), but that seems like a deflection from taxing
rich people more.

> > Russia's got a moon mission going too, but I think it has already hit a snag.
> > With any luck, it won't be a major setback for them.
>
> from where I'm sitting, it looked a little like Russia was trying to "upstage"
> India.  in that sense, "poetic justice".  </shrug>

It did seem that way... and it probably was. Still, I'm disappointed the mission
failed. Evidently, the lander 'ceased its existence' after making a maneuver at
1.5 times the velocity needed, thus impacting into the lunar surface :(

I was also bummed that North Korea's recent satellite launch wasn't successful.
Not only would it have been a source of (hopefully healthy) pride and
accomplishment, it would have also been another way for them to be less
paranoid, since having more eyes on nearby things helps one make better
decisions.

> > > > ...
> > > > That's good. Personally, I have at times found it hard to feel alone and
> > > > comfortable, even though I live in a rural area. ...
> > > ...
> > > I envy people who (can afford to) live in, say, Tokyo.  think them real
> > > lucky having the products and services of _millions_ on the doorstep.
> >
> > It would be nice to order a pizza on a whim, or have a package reliably make it
> > to my doorstep (and not some post office). But the noise would be too much for
> > me, I'm pretty sure.
> >
> > Would greater access to products & services outweigh the busyness of the place
> > for you? Or maybe the busyness is part of the appeal? I can imagine how seeing
> > and hearing all the commotion from a cozy apartment would be neat.
>
> I think/know the "hustle + bustle" is part of the appeal.  I struggle to see the
> noise problem though.  life == "noise" :-)  I remember (vaguely) hearing
> grasshoppers and birdsong when little.  silence is a problem because it implies
> perceived threat(s) (in the natural world).

The natural sounds of birds, grasshoppers, storms... it's all great. Even people
doing normal people things isn't so bad. But at the risk of self-diagnosing, I
think I might have some form of transient misophonia. Certain things like a bass
drum beat, large beeping equipment, people partying at all times and such... it
just rubs me the wrong way sometimes. I'm getting better, though. I use ear
plugs to cut out most of the noise, and a degree of stoicism to navigate my
feelings about the onslaught. (It's not often as bad as I make it out to be.)

> (re-ordered)
> > > > ...
> > > > But yeah, I like a good debate, provided all parties are arguing in good
faith.
> > >
> > > yes, in good faith.
> > >
> > > (that then precludes conversation with about any politician who ever walked the
> > > Earth :-))
> >
> > I'm looking at my country's next presidential election and just shaking my head
> > `:/
>
> > ...
> > It's been suggested many times that all world leaders should take a bunch of
> > mushrooms and meditate on things. It would be great if it helped, but it's also
> > said people lacking a conscience are drawn to power, or find it easier to stay
> > there, so, idk.
>
> :-)  that would be kind of irresponsible too, I'd think that many of those
> "leaders" could be vulnerable afterwards, depressed, suicidal, some without
> doubt.

Well, it wouldn't have to be done in a reckless manner. Keep some trip killers
on hand, nurses on call, and above all: make sure set and setting is good
beforehand. Therapists to help with integration afterward. And it wouldn't have
to be 'a bunch of shrooms,' just enough to break out of the default mode network
a bit. But o course, even with every safeguard, things can still happen.

> how about just "cookies"

That could work, if they are 'special' cookies. Caution would still need to be
exercised, but probably not as much as with other things. (Green cookies can
still get *very* carried away.)

> and MJ Cole's 'Sincere' as background during
> debates ?  </grin>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MJ_Cole>
> > I read the news almost every day, but I try not to get too upset about it all.

I looked that up. Found a song I'm not particularly interested in, but the idea
of something being created on an Atari system is intriguing.

> fwiw, I used to be a "news junkie", papers and (BBC) Radio 4.  but, I kept
> getting upset.  so I've made changes[*].

I read the news every morning on Lemmy and Reddit. On a basic level, reading
words is different than hearing audio and seeing video on TV. The potential for
getting upset is still there, but at least the manipulation is attenuated by a
few degrees. (Speaking of cannabis, that's how I found out how much television
was manipulating my mind. It happens on a level most of us ignore...
subconscious even. And to think, many people just don't realize that it's going
on all the time. [Or maybe I just think too much.])

> like people recommend to do with caged parrots and other social birds, I leave
> the radio on, 24/7, just above audible or "volume up" :-), on a music
> station[**].  works a treat.

I should have done this when we had cockatiels. Probably would have made things
better.

What's listening to that low-level noise like? Do you ever misrepresent the
sounds or is it basically white noise to you?

I have some kind of tinnitus, and when I'm in certain stages of sleep (dreaming)
it makes music. I'd like to learn a music application better in order to record
what I hear. It's almost like some sort of inter-dimensional radio, but I'm
pretty sure it's just my subconscious remixing memories. (Unless 'SpaghettiOs
Cereal' is a thing somewhere, haha.)

> [*] I still "allow" myself 15/20 minutes daily on a news channel, but find more
> and more days where I don't bother.
> [**] BBC Radio 6Music.  on DAB here, your side of the pond would require
> streaming I guess.

Pretty sure my radio can't pick that up. But have you ever seen this?
http://radio.garden/visit/ It's a site with a 3D globe you can navigate. You can
listen in on real-time broadcasts, from anywhere on Earth.

Sam

Post a reply to this message

hi,

"Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> ...
> A number of the private utilities don't seem to be working out too well for some
> of us in the 'states. Things are bound to happen, of course, but sometimes the
> frequency of those 'things' is a bit too high. (It's not as bad as Puerto Rico
> here, but... that line of thinking doesn't help the people living there :/)

ouch.  means you lose power etc supplies "frequently" ?


> > > > > (I think India might be making a moon landing here pretty soon...)
> > > > this week, fingers crossed.

we should know _v_ soon :-)


> > > Yes! And hopefully this attempt goes better than the last (unfortunate things
> > > happen, unfortunately).
> > very much hope the second attempt goes well.  (even if that means (the
> > insufferable ;-)) Mr Modi gets to beat his chest :-))
> Any progress is good, as long as it's real and not just to show off. Searching
> for water and minerals on the south lunar pole seems like a good goal to me. I
> know there's a lot of criticism regarding their space program (e.g. that money
> could be used for people in need), but that seems like a deflection from taxing
> rich people more.

wasn't aware of criticisms re their space programme; my own comment was/is re
the BJP and all that.


> ...
> I was also bummed that North Korea's recent satellite launch wasn't successful.
> Not only would it have been a source of (hopefully healthy) pride and
> accomplishment, it would have also been another way for them to be less
> paranoid, since having more eyes on nearby things helps one make better
> decisions.

ah, credit to you.  have not paid much (any :-() attention to North Korea.


> ...
> The natural sounds of birds, grasshoppers, storms... it's all great. Even people
> doing normal people things isn't so bad. But at the risk of self-diagnosing, I
> think I might have some form of transient misophonia. Certain things like a bass
> drum beat, large beeping equipment, people partying at all times and such... it
> just rubs me the wrong way sometimes. I'm getting better, though. I use ear
> plugs to cut out most of the noise, and a degree of stoicism to navigate my
> feelings about the onslaught. (It's not often as bad as I make it out to be.)

guess you'll be aware of Bose noise cancellation headphones, then.


> ...
> I looked that up. Found a song I'm not particularly interested in, but the idea
> of something being created on an Atari system is intriguing.

yes.  Atari vs Commodore..  those _were_ the days :-).


> > ... "news junkie", ...
> I read the news every morning on Lemmy and Reddit. On a basic level, reading
> words is different than hearing audio and seeing video on TV. The potential for
> getting upset is still there, but at least the manipulation is attenuated by a
> few degrees. (Speaking of cannabis, that's how I found out how much television
> was manipulating my mind. It happens on a level most of us ignore...
> subconscious even. And to think, many people just don't realize that it's going
> on all the time. [Or maybe I just think too much.])

</grin>  DHOH's "TV - Drug of the nation"'s lyrics spell it out.


> > like people recommend to do with caged parrots and other social birds, I leave
> > the radio on, 24/7, just above audible or "volume up" :-), on a music
> > station[**].  works a treat.
> I should have done this when we had cockatiels. Probably would have made things
> better.
> What's listening to that low-level noise like? Do you ever misrepresent the
> sounds or is it basically white noise to you?

no, not "white noise" or any such.  just on low level volume most of the time
(tend to turn it up when washing up/housework stuff).  may well just be a
mechanism for "combating silence", who knows.  also, no TV in this household.


> I have some kind of tinnitus, and when I'm in certain stages of sleep (dreaming)
> it makes music. I'd like to learn a music application better in order to record
> what I hear. It's almost like some sort of inter-dimensional radio, but I'm
> pretty sure it's just my subconscious remixing memories. (Unless 'SpaghettiOs
> Cereal' is a thing somewhere, haha.)

:-)  a recording project sounds (no pun intended) a real good idea (cf the "self
analysis" thing).


> Pretty sure my radio can't pick that up. But have you ever seen this?
> http://radio.garden/visit/ It's a site with a 3D globe you can navigate. You can
> listen in on real-time broadcasts, from anywhere on Earth.

had not known, v nice idea.  I guess there will a setting to enable browsing
w/out stations starting to auto-play, but didn't see it in time ;-).


regards, jr.

Post a reply to this message

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> > > > > > (I think India might be making a moon landing here pretty soon...)
> > > > > this week, fingers crossed.
>
> we should know _v_ soon :-)

They made a successful landing! :)

> > I use ear plugs to cut out most of the noise
>
> guess you'll be aware of Bose noise cancellation headphones, then.

Yeah, but I'm a bit wary of noise-cancelling tech. What if the device produces
sounds that don't cancel anything out? Would that damage my hearing?

Sam

Post a reply to this message

hi,

"Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> ...
> > guess you'll be aware of Bose noise cancellation headphones, then.
>
> Yeah, but I'm a bit wary of noise-cancelling tech. What if the device produces
> sounds that don't cancel anything out? Would that damage my hearing?

no to the last, also, was thinking "cans" rather than earplugs.  and, fwiw, Bose
is a quality manufacturer (which has been round for years, eg
<https://www.johnlewis.com/bose-quietcomfort-qc45-noise-cancelling-over-ear-wireless-bluetooth-headphones-with-mic-remo
te/p5752673>).


regards, jr.

Post a reply to this message

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> > ...
> > > guess you'll be aware of Bose noise cancellation headphones, then.
> >
> > Yeah, but I'm a bit wary of noise-cancelling tech. What if the device produces
> > sounds that don't cancel anything out? Would that damage my hearing?
>
> no to the last, also, was thinking "cans" rather than earplugs.  and, fwiw, Bose
> is a quality manufacturer (which has been round for years, eg
>
<https://www.johnlewis.com/bose-quietcomfort-qc45-noise-cancelling-over-ear-wireless-bluetooth-headphones-with-mic-re
mo
> te/p5752673>).
>
> regards, jr.

Thanks for the link. I can afford it, but I don't think I need it that badly
atm. (If I lived in an apartment or otherwise closer to more people I'd
definitely get something).

Sam

Post a reply to this message

On 8/1/2023 07:33, jr wrote:
> hi,

> 
> still, I do pay Google money -- a small amount -- annually, figuring that since
> my data now is actually theirs, they will look after it a little better. ;-)

I've been paying Google this year. I absolutely love the show Taskmaster 
and there were getting to be too many ads, less than TV, but still. So 
my debit card serves as "ad blocker".

dik

Post a reply to this message

hi,

Dick Balaska <dic### [at] buckosoftcom> wrote:
> On 8/1/2023 07:33, jr wrote:
> > still, I do pay Google money -- a small amount -- annually, ...
> I've been paying Google this year. I absolutely love the show Taskmaster
> and there were getting to be too many ads, less than TV, but still. So
> my debit card serves as "ad blocker".
>
> dik

<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-66659361>


regards, jr.

Post a reply to this message