Op 16/08/2023 om 00:23 schreef Samuel B.:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>> Op 14/08/2023 om 02:07 schreef Samuel B.:
>>> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>>>> Interesting news about data cloud storage EU vs US:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.bbc.com/news/business-66310714
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Thomas
>>>
>>> I was wondering how this might square with Five Eyes... But are there actually
>>> any 5Es members now, after Brexit?
>>>
>>> I suppose the GDPR only helps against commercial data acquisition, at any rate.
>>>
>>> Sam
>>>
>> Probably the Five Eyes were not affected by Brexit as they are/operate
>> supranationally anyway. And nowadays with Nine Eyes or Fourteen Eyes,
>> and whatever else exists out there which we are not/hardly aware of...
>>
>> --
>> Thomas
> 
> Right, the UK is probably still part of Five Eyes. But, since Brexit, the UK is
> no longer in the EU, so... I guess the EU has no part in Five Eyes now?
> 
> But you're probably right, and it' like up to 55 eyes or something by now :P
> 
> Sam
> 
According to Wikipedia, the core countries of the EU (the western ones) 
are part of SSEUR aka "SIGINT Seniors Europe", the Fourteen Eyes I 
mentioned above. It includes the original Five Eyes.

-- 
Thomas

Post a reply to this message

hi,

"Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> ...
> My country is horrible, ... our military ...

to me the whole idea of (competing) "nation states" is .. farcical, at best.  my
preference is the "one globe" visible from space.  </shrug>


> ...
> A good song! It has an almost British punk vibe, but I'll admit I don't know the
> actual genre.

heh, I cannot tell "genre"s either, but "fusion"s can work real well.  (eg
Thievery Corp. ;-))


> ...Not sure I have a current favorite happy tune. ...

will try and check out Morgan Delt, thanks, and yes, Khruangbin, liked "Summer
Madness" and also a "little desk" session, well, the first two tracks :-).


regards, jr.

Post a reply to this message

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

(probably going to shoot myself in the foot, again, but hey..)


> to me the whole idea of (competing) "nation states" is .. farcical, at best.  my
> preference is the "one globe" visible from space.  </shrug>


given <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthrise>, given it has been well over 50
years since, I (have to) assume anyone seeing the image old enough and rational
enough must appreciate that this image shows where "their feet are planted".  my
argument simply is, if a person is "aware" of the facts and still insists on ..
balkanising the peoples, that makes them "unfit" in the Darwinian sense.  $0.02
(since the Euro symbol creates havoc :-))


regards, jr.

Post a reply to this message

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> > ...
> > My country is horrible, ... our military ...
>
> to me the whole idea of (competing) "nation states" is .. farcical, at best.  my
> preference is the "one globe" visible from space.  </shrug>
>
> [...]
>
> given <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthrise>, given it has been well over 50
> years since, I (have to) assume anyone seeing the image old enough and rational
> enough must appreciate that this image shows where "their feet are planted".  my
> argument simply is, if a person is "aware" of the facts and still insists on ..
> balkanising the peoples, that makes them "unfit" in the Darwinian sense.  $0.02
> (since the Euro symbol creates havoc :-))
>

I agree that we need to be ever mindful that we all share a single globe -- one
island in the midst of what may as well be a lifeless space -- and that further
fragmentation is not helpful towards keeping ourselves alive and our foundation
intact.

But a degree of fragmentation seems unavoidable, perhaps even necessary. People
argue about stupid things, and we need a certain amount of space from each
other. Also, I think a fully-unified planet would be a ripe breeding ground for
the most totalitarian government the world has even seen...

> > ...
> > A good song! It has an almost British punk vibe, but I'll admit I don't know the
> > actual genre.
>
> heh, I cannot tell "genre"s either, but "fusion"s can work real well.  (eg
> Thievery Corp. ;-))
>

I will look them up!

> > ...Not sure I have a current favorite happy tune. ...
>
> will try and check out Morgan Delt, thanks,

It's psychedelic rock. He only put out two albums that I know of, but it's
excellent stuff if you're into that sort of thing.

Another interesting musician is one named Gorkem Sen. He invented an instrument
called a yaybahar. This is my favorite performance by him:
https://youtu.be/iQEgSDuijVs

> and yes, Khruangbin, liked "Summer
> Madness" and also a "little desk" session, well, the first two tracks :-).
>
> regards, jr.

Just listened to Summer Madness for the first time. It's nice!

Sam

Post a reply to this message

hi,

"Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> ...
> > balkanising the peoples, ...
> > (since the Euro symbol creates havoc :-))
>
> I agree that we need to be ever mindful that we all share a single globe -- one
> island in the midst of what may as well be a lifeless space -- and that further
> fragmentation is not helpful towards keeping ourselves alive and our foundation
> intact.

yes.  in addition, I think, "we need to be ever mindful" of the fact that each
and everyone of us is .. an accident of birth.  no one _chose_ which part of the
planet, or into which family, they got born (cf "The Doors" memorable lyric
"into this world we're thrown").


> But a degree of fragmentation seems unavoidable, perhaps even necessary.

necessary ?  interesting, how so ?



> People
> argue about stupid things, and we need a certain amount of space from each
> other.

personally, nothing wrong with a good argument.  provided one uses intellect and
facts, rather than belief and or Heckler&Koch, to win.  re space, there's plenty
of it :-)  also, I find it not difficult to "have space", privacy, in spite of
literally living "on the high street" in a good sized city.


> Also, I think a fully-unified planet would be a ripe breeding ground for
> the most totalitarian government the world has even seen...

as opposed to the "facist's wet-dream" we "enjoy" now ?  Coolio's "insight"
comes to mind.  :-)  perhaps, if every person was a citizen of the "one globe",
we could hold our (one) government to account when lives and human potential get
wasted in grotesque numbers for no particular reason, eg
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66540039>, "chalking up" another
"fail".


> I will look [Thievery Corporation] up!

they do look good live too I thought, though "my evidence" is a single (Boston
?) concert on YT.


> It's psychedelic rock. ...

do you like Goat ?  (they have that "Scandinavian je ne sais quoi" :-))


> Another interesting musician is one named Gorkem Sen.

thanks, another for the "to do" list :-).


regards, jr.

Post a reply to this message

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> > ...
> > > balkanising the peoples, ...
> > > (since the Euro symbol creates havoc :-))
> >
> > I agree that we need to be ever mindful that we all share a single globe -- one
> > island in the midst of what may as well be a lifeless space -- and that further
> > fragmentation is not helpful towards keeping ourselves alive and our foundation
> > intact.
>
> yes.  in addition, I think, "we need to be ever mindful" of the fact that each
> and everyone of us is .. an accident of birth.  no one _chose_ which part of the
> planet, or into which family, they got born (cf "The Doors" memorable lyric
> "into this world we're thrown").

Very true, and that fact should probably make everyone humble...

> > But a degree of fragmentation seems unavoidable, perhaps even necessary.
>
> necessary ?  interesting, how so ?

Actually, that was the wrong word for me to use, as 'fragmentation' implies
division and border clashes.

The word 'diversification' is closer to what I was getting at. Life seems driven
towards diversity, both in genes and ideas. Maybe it's not its actual purpose
(is there one?), but it's certainly a result. One could argue we humans are
doing our best when exploring all sorts of different ideas, while being careful
not to perpetuate harmful ones. (Maybe I think this way because I prefer reality
to be interesting, and not like that dark planet from A Wrinkle in Time.)

> > People
> > argue about stupid things, and we need a certain amount of space from each
> > other.
>
> personally, nothing wrong with a good argument.  provided one uses intellect and
> facts, rather than belief and or Heckler&Koch, to win.

No, you're wrong and I'm going to do some defense spending to prove my point! :P

But yeah, I like a good debate, provided all parties are arguing in good faith.
Arguments that devolve into insults and threats are pretty pointless and
generally mentally toxic for everyone.

> re space, there's plenty of it :-)

We should colonize it, truly. But we should be extra careful not to contaminate
possible ecosystems. (Ever read the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson?) There
is so much we could do to remove stress from the planet by going outward. So
much water, so many metals, and a number of power sources are available to us
out there. (I think India might be making a moon landing here pretty soon...)

> also, I find it not difficult to "have space", privacy, in spite of literally
> living "on the high street" in a good sized city.

That's good. Personally, I have at times found it hard to feel alone and
comfortable, even though I live in a rural area. (My personal bubble feels
really huge sometimes.) The feeling has only gotten worse over the years,
especially since Airbnb became a thing. People coming in droves, sometimes
playing loud music at night. It's not always bad but I often feel penned-in,
since I am not a very outgoing person.

> > Also, I think a fully-unified planet would be a ripe breeding ground for
> > the most totalitarian government the world has even seen...
>
> as opposed to the "facist's wet-dream" we "enjoy" now ?  Coolio's "insight"
> comes to mind.  :-)  perhaps, if every person was a citizen of the "one globe",
> we could hold our (one) government to account when lives and human potential get
> wasted in grotesque numbers for no particular reason, eg
> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66540039>, "chalking up" another
> "fail".

I agree with you, and it's very messed up. These are actual people.

I was just pointing out a couple possible issues that need addressed, since a
one-world government could either be a very good thing or a very bad thing.

Yeah, it's obvious our current methods are not working. We're headed for a
literal dead end; our present course results in a sterile planet. Plastics
everywhere are causing fertility and reproductive issues, greenhouse gases are
wobbling the spinning plate we call the climate, industrialism is poisoning
everything, ships are driving cetaceans mad enough to beach themselves, etc. As
I said elsewhere, I try not to get too worked up over it anymore, but I can't
help but be disturbed about it all. I may not be able to vote anymore, but at
least I can speak :/

> > I will look [Thievery Corporation] up!
>
> they do look good live too I thought, though "my evidence" is a single (Boston
> ?) concert on YT.

I listened to one of their songs yesterday, and the vocalist seemed very
familiar. They had a 1996 album, so I'll give that a listen, since that's the
time period in which I heard her last.

> > It's psychedelic rock. ...
>
> do you like Goat ?  (they have that "Scandinavian je ne sais quoi" :-))

Haven't heard of them, but will search and bookmark ;)

Sam

Post a reply to this message

hi,

"Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> ...
> The word 'diversification' is closer to what I was getting at. Life seems driven
> towards diversity, both in genes and ideas. Maybe it's not its actual purpose
> (is there one?), but it's certainly a result. One could argue we humans are
> doing our best when exploring all sorts of different ideas, while being careful
> not to perpetuate harmful ones. (Maybe I think this way because I prefer reality
> to be interesting, and not like that dark planet from A Wrinkle in Time.)

with you up to and including "result".  mix + mingle freely, ideally.

on the rest, but who decides ?


> ...
> But yeah, I like a good debate, provided all parties are arguing in good faith.

yes, in good faith.

(that then precludes conversation with about any politician who ever walked the
Earth :-))


> ...
> > re space, there's plenty of it :-)
> We should colonize it, truly.

oh man, I misunderstood, completely.  I'd read it as in "elbow room".


> But we should be extra careful not to contaminate
> possible ecosystems. (Ever read the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson?) There

think 'Red' or 'Green', but that must be 20 years ago, longer ?  no memory as
such.

fwiw, re "Sci-Fi", Iain M Banks (in the 'Culture' books) had peoples who
gene-engineered themselves to function in vacuum, for periods of time.
 given that most of space is just that, I like the idea.


> is so much we could do to remove stress from the planet by going outward. So
> much water, so many metals, and a number of power sources are available to us
> out there. (I think India might be making a moon landing here pretty soon...)

this week, fingers crossed.


> ...
> That's good. Personally, I have at times found it hard to feel alone and
> comfortable, even though I live in a rural area. (My personal bubble feels
> really huge sometimes.) The feeling has only gotten worse over the years,
> especially since Airbnb became a thing. People coming in droves, sometimes
> playing loud music at night. It's not always bad but I often feel penned-in,
> since I am not a very outgoing person.

interesting really because, like you, I'd describe myself as not very outgoing,
yet, I envy people who (can afford to) live in, say, Tokyo.  think them real
lucky having the products and services of _millions_ on the doorstep.


> ...
> I agree with you, and it's very messed up. These are actual people.
>
> I was just pointing out a couple possible issues ...

sorry, yes.  it is just that certain issues simply leave me depressed-as-fuck,
and the vision of 200+ self-interested parties ("nation states"), armed to the
teeth (except, to their credit, Costa Rica), "negotiating" in times of looming
crises is one of them.


> ...
> I listened to one of their songs yesterday, and the vocalist seemed very
> familiar. They had a 1996 album, so I'll give that a listen, since that's the
> time period in which I heard her last.

:-)  enjoy.

fwiw, "I don't wanna see what's happening outside"..  while I (we, I guess :-))
can relate to that, the track as such .. lukewarm ?  may have another go as the
"wikipedia blurb" read quite interesting.



regards, jr.

Post a reply to this message

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:

Yay, power's back on! It got knocked out last night, thanks to Tropical Storm
Hilary.

> > But yeah, I like a good debate, provided all parties are arguing in good faith.
>
> yes, in good faith.
>
> (that then precludes conversation with about any politician who ever walked the
> Earth :-))

I'm looking at my country's next presidential election and just shaking my head
`:/

> > ...
> > > re space, there's plenty of it :-)
> > We should colonize it, truly.
>
> oh man, I misunderstood, completely.  I'd read it as in "elbow room".

I guess I meant everything... Having personal space is good for the individual,
and having access to outer space can be good for everyone :)

> > But we should be extra careful not to contaminate
> > possible ecosystems. (Ever read the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson?) There
>
> think 'Red' or 'Green', but that must be 20 years ago, longer ?  no memory as
> such.

It's been about 16 years for me, I think. The 'Reds' were adamant about
preserving Mars' ecosystem. The 'Greens' might have been all about greening up
the place, but I can't remember. Just remember it was mainly about the difficult
job of terraforming Mars, and that it was a good book series.

> fwiw, re "Sci-Fi", Iain M Banks (in the 'Culture' books) had peoples who
> gene-engineered themselves to function in vacuum, for periods of time.
>  given that most of space is just that, I like the idea.

That sounds vaguely familiar...

> > (I think India might be making a moon landing here pretty soon...)
>
> this week, fingers crossed.

Yes! And hopefully this attempt goes better than the last (unfortunate things
happen, unfortunately).

Russia's got a moon mission going too, but I think it has already hit a snag.
With any luck, it won't be a major setback for them.

> > ...
> > That's good. Personally, I have at times found it hard to feel alone and
> > comfortable, even though I live in a rural area. (My personal bubble feels
> > really huge sometimes.) The feeling has only gotten worse over the years,
> > especially since Airbnb became a thing. People coming in droves, sometimes
> > playing loud music at night. It's not always bad but I often feel penned-in,
> > since I am not a very outgoing person.
>
> interesting really because, like you, I'd describe myself as not very outgoing,
> yet, I envy people who (can afford to) live in, say, Tokyo.  think them real
> lucky having the products and services of _millions_ on the doorstep.

It would be nice to order a pizza on a whim, or have a package reliably make it
to my doorstep (and not some post office). But the noise would be too much for
me, I'm pretty sure.

Would greater access to products & services outweigh the busyness of the place
for you? Or maybe the busyness is part of the appeal? I can imagine how seeing
and hearing all the commotion from a cozy apartment would be neat.

> > ...
> > I agree with you, and it's very messed up. These are actual people.
> >
> > I was just pointing out a couple possible issues ...
>
> sorry, yes.  it is just that certain issues simply leave me depressed-as-fuck,
> and the vision of 200+ self-interested parties ("nation states"), armed to the
> teeth (except, to their credit, Costa Rica), "negotiating" in times of looming
> crises is one of them.

Yeah, it sucks. There's probably a middle ground somewhere, with borders and
societies being a bit less... discrete. More continuous. I think it might have a
chance of happening, but it seems there are people and organizations
intentionally causing division.

It's been suggested many times that all world leaders should take a bunch of
mushrooms and meditate on things. It would be great if it helped, but it's also
said people lacking a conscience are drawn to power, or find it easier to stay
there, so, idk.

I read the news almost every day, but I try not to get too upset about it all.

> > ...
> > I listened to one of their songs yesterday, and the vocalist seemed very
> > familiar. They had a 1996 album, so I'll give that a listen, since that's the
> > time period in which I heard her last.
>
> :-)  enjoy.
>
> fwiw, "I don't wanna see what's happening outside"..  while I (we, I guess :-))
> can relate to that, the track as such .. lukewarm ?  may have another go as the
> "wikipedia blurb" read quite interesting.

That might be my least favorite song by him, but I can definitely relate to it.

The song that really made me like the guy is "Some Sunsick Day." It seems to be
about a species that experiences a great disaster, yet manages to rebuild their
society. Happy and sad.

Sam

Post a reply to this message

hi,

"Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> Yay, power's back on! It got knocked out last night, thanks to Tropical Storm
> Hilary.

ah, good.  a "novelty" in that area I read (80 years!).  made me think, another
benefit of "urban" living - priority when restoring services.


> > > (I think India might be making a moon landing here pretty soon...)
> > this week, fingers crossed.
> Yes! And hopefully this attempt goes better than the last (unfortunate things
> happen, unfortunately).

very much hope the second attempt goes well.  (even if that means (the
insufferable ;-)) Mr Modi gets to beat his chest :-))


> Russia's got a moon mission going too, but I think it has already hit a snag.
> With any luck, it won't be a major setback for them.

from where I'm sitting, it looked a little like Russia was trying to "upstage"
India.  in that sense, "poetic justice".  </shrug>


> > > ...
> > > That's good. Personally, I have at times found it hard to feel alone and
> > > comfortable, even though I live in a rural area. ...
> > ...
> > I envy people who (can afford to) live in, say, Tokyo.  think them real
> > lucky having the products and services of _millions_ on the doorstep.
>
> It would be nice to order a pizza on a whim, or have a package reliably make it
> to my doorstep (and not some post office). But the noise would be too much for
> me, I'm pretty sure.
>
> Would greater access to products & services outweigh the busyness of the place
> for you? Or maybe the busyness is part of the appeal? I can imagine how seeing
> and hearing all the commotion from a cozy apartment would be neat.

I think/know the "hustle + bustle" is part of the appeal.  I struggle to see the
noise problem though.  life == "noise" :-)  I remember (vaguely) hearing
grasshoppers and birdsong when little.  silence is a problem because it implies
perceived threat(s) (in the natural world).  another aspect is the "forgetting
to buy a pint of milk" thing.  happens all too frequently to me, these days, so
if shopping meant a 50 miles round-trip, I'd be in trouble :-).


(re-ordered)
> > > ...
> > > But yeah, I like a good debate, provided all parties are arguing in good faith.
> >
> > yes, in good faith.
> >
> > (that then precludes conversation with about any politician who ever walked the
> > Earth :-))
>
> I'm looking at my country's next presidential election and just shaking my head
> `:/

> ...
> It's been suggested many times that all world leaders should take a bunch of
> mushrooms and meditate on things. It would be great if it helped, but it's also
> said people lacking a conscience are drawn to power, or find it easier to stay
> there, so, idk.

:-)  that would be kind of irresponsible too, I'd think that many of those
"leaders" could be vulnerable afterwards, depressed, suicidal, some without
doubt.  how about just "cookies" and MJ Cole's 'Sincere' as background during
debates ?  </grin>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MJ_Cole>


> I read the news almost every day, but I try not to get too upset about it all.

fwiw, I used to be a "news junkie", papers and (BBC) Radio 4.  but, I kept
getting upset.  so I've made changes[*].  like people recommend to do with caged
parrots and other social birds, I leave the radio on, 24/7, just above audible
or "volume up" :-), on a music station[**].  works a treat.

[*] I still "allow" myself 15/20 minutes daily on a news channel, but find more
and more days where I don't bother.
[**] BBC Radio 6Music.  on DAB here, your side of the pond would require
streaming I guess.


> The song that really made me like the guy is "Some Sunsick Day." It seems to be
> about a species that experiences a great disaster, yet manages to rebuild their
> society. Happy and sad.

</phew> ;-) and thanks.


regards, jr.

Post a reply to this message

"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> > Yay, power's back on! It got knocked out last night, thanks to Tropical Storm
> > Hilary.
>
> ah, good.  a "novelty" in that area I read (80 years!).  made me think, another
> benefit of "urban" living - priority when restoring services.

A number of the private utilities don't seem to be working out too well for some
of us in the 'states. Things are bound to happen, of course, but sometimes the
frequency of those 'things' is a bit too high. (It's not as bad as Puerto Rico
here, but... that line of thinking doesn't help the people living there :/)

> > > > (I think India might be making a moon landing here pretty soon...)
> > > this week, fingers crossed.
> > Yes! And hopefully this attempt goes better than the last (unfortunate things
> > happen, unfortunately).
>
> very much hope the second attempt goes well.  (even if that means (the
> insufferable ;-)) Mr Modi gets to beat his chest :-))

Any progress is good, as long as it's real and not just to show off. Searching
for water and minerals on the south lunar pole seems like a good goal to me. I
know there's a lot of criticism regarding their space program (e.g. that money
could be used for people in need), but that seems like a deflection from taxing
rich people more.

> > Russia's got a moon mission going too, but I think it has already hit a snag.
> > With any luck, it won't be a major setback for them.
>
> from where I'm sitting, it looked a little like Russia was trying to "upstage"
> India.  in that sense, "poetic justice".  </shrug>

It did seem that way... and it probably was. Still, I'm disappointed the mission
failed. Evidently, the lander 'ceased its existence' after making a maneuver at
1.5 times the velocity needed, thus impacting into the lunar surface :(

I was also bummed that North Korea's recent satellite launch wasn't successful.
Not only would it have been a source of (hopefully healthy) pride and
accomplishment, it would have also been another way for them to be less
paranoid, since having more eyes on nearby things helps one make better
decisions.

> > > > ...
> > > > That's good. Personally, I have at times found it hard to feel alone and
> > > > comfortable, even though I live in a rural area. ...
> > > ...
> > > I envy people who (can afford to) live in, say, Tokyo.  think them real
> > > lucky having the products and services of _millions_ on the doorstep.
> >
> > It would be nice to order a pizza on a whim, or have a package reliably make it
> > to my doorstep (and not some post office). But the noise would be too much for
> > me, I'm pretty sure.
> >
> > Would greater access to products & services outweigh the busyness of the place
> > for you? Or maybe the busyness is part of the appeal? I can imagine how seeing
> > and hearing all the commotion from a cozy apartment would be neat.
>
> I think/know the "hustle + bustle" is part of the appeal.  I struggle to see the
> noise problem though.  life == "noise" :-)  I remember (vaguely) hearing
> grasshoppers and birdsong when little.  silence is a problem because it implies
> perceived threat(s) (in the natural world).

The natural sounds of birds, grasshoppers, storms... it's all great. Even people
doing normal people things isn't so bad. But at the risk of self-diagnosing, I
think I might have some form of transient misophonia. Certain things like a bass
drum beat, large beeping equipment, people partying at all times and such... it
just rubs me the wrong way sometimes. I'm getting better, though. I use ear
plugs to cut out most of the noise, and a degree of stoicism to navigate my
feelings about the onslaught. (It's not often as bad as I make it out to be.)

> (re-ordered)
> > > > ...
> > > > But yeah, I like a good debate, provided all parties are arguing in good
faith.
> > >
> > > yes, in good faith.
> > >
> > > (that then precludes conversation with about any politician who ever walked the
> > > Earth :-))
> >
> > I'm looking at my country's next presidential election and just shaking my head
> > `:/
>
> > ...
> > It's been suggested many times that all world leaders should take a bunch of
> > mushrooms and meditate on things. It would be great if it helped, but it's also
> > said people lacking a conscience are drawn to power, or find it easier to stay
> > there, so, idk.
>
> :-)  that would be kind of irresponsible too, I'd think that many of those
> "leaders" could be vulnerable afterwards, depressed, suicidal, some without
> doubt.

Well, it wouldn't have to be done in a reckless manner. Keep some trip killers
on hand, nurses on call, and above all: make sure set and setting is good
beforehand. Therapists to help with integration afterward. And it wouldn't have
to be 'a bunch of shrooms,' just enough to break out of the default mode network
a bit. But o course, even with every safeguard, things can still happen.

> how about just "cookies"

That could work, if they are 'special' cookies. Caution would still need to be
exercised, but probably not as much as with other things. (Green cookies can
still get *very* carried away.)

> and MJ Cole's 'Sincere' as background during
> debates ?  </grin>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MJ_Cole>
> > I read the news almost every day, but I try not to get too upset about it all.

I looked that up. Found a song I'm not particularly interested in, but the idea
of something being created on an Atari system is intriguing.

> fwiw, I used to be a "news junkie", papers and (BBC) Radio 4.  but, I kept
> getting upset.  so I've made changes[*].

I read the news every morning on Lemmy and Reddit. On a basic level, reading
words is different than hearing audio and seeing video on TV. The potential for
getting upset is still there, but at least the manipulation is attenuated by a
few degrees. (Speaking of cannabis, that's how I found out how much television
was manipulating my mind. It happens on a level most of us ignore...
subconscious even. And to think, many people just don't realize that it's going
on all the time. [Or maybe I just think too much.])

> like people recommend to do with caged parrots and other social birds, I leave
> the radio on, 24/7, just above audible or "volume up" :-), on a music
> station[**].  works a treat.

I should have done this when we had cockatiels. Probably would have made things
better.

What's listening to that low-level noise like? Do you ever misrepresent the
sounds or is it basically white noise to you?

I have some kind of tinnitus, and when I'm in certain stages of sleep (dreaming)
it makes music. I'd like to learn a music application better in order to record
what I hear. It's almost like some sort of inter-dimensional radio, but I'm
pretty sure it's just my subconscious remixing memories. (Unless 'SpaghettiOs
Cereal' is a thing somewhere, haha.)

> [*] I still "allow" myself 15/20 minutes daily on a news channel, but find more
> and more days where I don't bother.
> [**] BBC Radio 6Music.  on DAB here, your side of the pond would require
> streaming I guess.

Pretty sure my radio can't pick that up. But have you ever seen this?
http://radio.garden/visit/ It's a site with a 3D globe you can navigate. You can
listen in on real-time broadcasts, from anywhere on Earth.

Sam

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