On 28/10/2015 07:04 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Oct 2015 18:17:38 +0000, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>> HTTP 418: I'm a teapot.
>> Seriously. There is a defined HTTP status code for interacting with an
>> IoT teapot.
>
> It's funny, yeah - but the history of that error code isn't really IoT,
> more like RFC 1149.  418 was defined in the HTCPCP/1.0 protcool, defined
> in the referenced RFC as an April Fool's day joke in 1998.
>
> It's a fun read.  (Did I mention that I work with a product that secures
> websites, and HTTP geek stuff is what I currently work with daily? ;) )

Wasn't the world's first "webcam" a camera in some university ward so 
they could watch the coffee pot?

>>> The idea of on-demand programming was something I was first introduced
>>> to by someone who worked at NBC back in the mid 90's as well.  He
>>> described pretty much what we see now with Netflix and other
>>> streaming/on-demand video services.
>>
>> Some day, maybe I'll try that.
>
> Definitely worth it, IMHO.

Even for somebody who doesn't watch TV?

>> (I'm still puzzled as to why YouTube can actually exist. But that's
>> another story.)
>
> People want to publish videos.  Youtube gives them a platform to do that.
>
> And gives Google another platform to push advertising on.
>
> It's about that simple, really. :)

No, I mean... why is it possible for one company to ever buy enough 
harddisks to store even 0.01% of the data that YouTube holds? It seems 
like there shouldn't be enough mass storage devices on Earth to hold 
this much data...

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On 28/10/2015 06:51 PM, Stephen wrote:
> On 10/28/2015 6:08 PM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>
>>
>> I often wonder... like, how much did [famous obsolete computer] actually
>> cost? What did it physically look like? What were its technical
>> capabilities? It's very hard to gather a general overview of this type
>> of data.
>>
> PDP-8 1965 $18,500 12 ~50,000 The smallest and least expensive PDP

Interesting. Now how about the Cray 2, the VAX, UNIAC and all the other 
legendary systems?

To be clear, I'm sure all the data is out there. It's just rather a lot 
of effort to collate it all into a short summary.

>> PostScript. And it wasn't *once*. ;-)

Did I tell you about the time I wrote a text to PostScript converter as 
an MS-DOS batch script?

Actually, the script just concatenates the text file with some 
hand-written PostScript code; the text file itself becomes a giant text 
string in a PostScript program. The program itself is a semi-complete 
formatting engine, which adds a filename, page number and date of 
printing to each page, and scans the characters looking for line breaks. 
It even line-wraps the text and adds little arrows when it does so. (I 
think there *might* be a bug if it line-wraps on the last line on a page 
though...)

Damn, my talents are completely unappreciated! :-(

>> Actually, I did start trying to write a PostScript *interpreter*, to
>> make debugging this stuff easier! It turns out the language has a lot
>> more edge-cases than you'd think though...
>
> One edge-case is more than I ken.
> I would ask what an edge-case is but then you would say that I can't
> Google. :-)

It's simple. An edge-case is where a function is supposed to do XYZ, 
*except* in this one really obscure case where if A, B and C happen 
simultaneously, it does something totally different. Like when you 
configure how many pages you want to print, but if you put in -1 it 
prints *all* the pages. Not -1 pages.

PostScript does some slightly strange things with token parsing. You can 
take a text string and ask the PostScript interpreter to parse out the 
first token, giving you back the token and the remainder of the string. 
But the specification gives some really inconsistent rules for whether 
it should or shouldn't skip spaces...

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On Wed, 28 Oct 2015 21:27:17 +0000, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:

> Wasn't the world's first "webcam" a camera in some university ward so
> they could watch the coffee pot?

That sounds familiar.  Whether it's true or not, though, I've no idea 
offhand.

>> Definitely worth it, IMHO.
> 
> Even for somebody who doesn't watch TV?

Do you watch movies?  I hear they have those available as well. ;)

>>> (I'm still puzzled as to why YouTube can actually exist. But that's
>>> another story.)
>>
>> People want to publish videos.  Youtube gives them a platform to do
>> that.
>>
>> And gives Google another platform to push advertising on.
>>
>> It's about that simple, really. :)
> 
> No, I mean... why is it possible for one company to ever buy enough
> harddisks to store even 0.01% of the data that YouTube holds? It seems
> like there shouldn't be enough mass storage devices on Earth to hold
> this much data...

And yet there are, so maybe you're not aware either of the totality of 
mass storage available in the world, or the way in which the content is 
stored in order to account for the amount of data involved.

But that's just a guess. ;)

Jim

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

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On 10/28/2015 8:13 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Oct 2015 19:43:08 +0000, Stephen wrote:
>
>>> Only if it's good.  Then again, you said "musak", so it probably isn't.
>>> :P
>>>
>>>
>> Elevator music is another name for musak. Which is often heard when on
>> hold. Or in a hotel foyer.
>
> So "elevator musak" is redundant. ;)
>
No it is an emphasiser like saying hot hot.


>> More a walkie talkie than a phone that everyone uses. I think.
>
> Well, from a design standpoint, though, that's what inspired Motorola, I
> hear.
>

Yes yes.

>>>> I was talking about Edinburgh Rock. The best thing to come out of
>>>> Edinburgh, the road to Glasgow, excluded. ;-)
>>>
>>> I'll have to remember that one the next time I'm talking with friends
>>> who live in Scotland.  Especially the ones who live in Edinburgh. ;)
>>>
>>>
>> It is a steal from Dr Johnson.
>
> Oh, sure, try and defer the credit. ;)
>

Just trying to save you embarrassment. The phrase is very well known, by 
the educated. :P


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On 10/28/2015 9:34 PM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> On 28/10/2015 06:51 PM, Stephen wrote:

>
> Interesting. Now how about the Cray 2, the VAX, UNIAC and all the other
> legendary systems?
>

What did your last slave die of?

> To be clear, I'm sure all the data is out there. It's just rather a lot
> of effort to collate it all into a short summary.
>

Dinkums! Too important to do a bit of work, are we? :P


>>> PostScript. And it wasn't *once*. ;-)
>
> Did I tell you about the time I wrote a text to PostScript converter as
> an MS-DOS batch script?
>

No but I am sure you will. ;)

> Actually, the script just concatenates the text file with some
> hand-written PostScript code; the text file itself becomes a giant text
> string in a PostScript program. The program itself is a semi-complete
> formatting engine, which adds a filename, page number and date of
> printing to each page, and scans the characters looking for line breaks.
> It even line-wraps the text and adds little arrows when it does so. (I
> think there *might* be a bug if it line-wraps on the last line on a page
> though...)
>
> Damn, my talents are completely unappreciated! :-(
>

Not completely, I'm sure.
Your mother loves you and your boss hasn't sacked you. :)

>>> Actually, I did start trying to write a PostScript *interpreter*, to
>>> make debugging this stuff easier! It turns out the language has a lot
>>> more edge-cases than you'd think though...
>>
>> One edge-case is more than I ken.
>> I would ask what an edge-case is but then you would say that I can't
>> Google. :-)
>
> It's simple. An edge-case is where a function is supposed to do XYZ,
> *except* in this one really obscure case where if A, B and C happen
> simultaneously, it does something totally different.


Are you sure about that?
Do all the cases (A,B & C) have to happen simultaneously?

My reading is when one of them is on the edge of the design parameters.

Like when you
> configure how many pages you want to print, but if you put in -1 it
> prints *all* the pages. Not -1 pages.
>
> PostScript does some slightly strange things with token parsing. You can
> take a text string and ask the PostScript interpreter to parse out the
> first token, giving you back the token and the remainder of the string.
> But the specification gives some really inconsistent rules for whether
> it should or shouldn't skip spaces...

Hit it with a shifting spanner then.
I can't stand uppity software. ;)

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On Wed, 28 Oct 2015 21:52:48 +0000, Stephen wrote:

>>> Elevator music is another name for musak. Which is often heard when on
>>> hold. Or in a hotel foyer.
>>
>> So "elevator musak" is redundant. ;)
>>
> No it is an emphasiser like saying hot hot.

If you say so - it sounds more like "PIN Number" or "ATM Machine" to 
me. ;)

>>>>> I was talking about Edinburgh Rock. The best thing to come out of
>>>>> Edinburgh, the road to Glasgow, excluded. ;-)
>>>>
>>>> I'll have to remember that one the next time I'm talking with friends
>>>> who live in Scotland.  Especially the ones who live in Edinburgh. ;)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> It is a steal from Dr Johnson.
>>
>> Oh, sure, try and defer the credit. ;)
>>
>>
> Just trying to save you embarrassment. The phrase is very well known, by
> the educated. :P

Oooh, them's fightin' words! ;)

Jim



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

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On 10/28/2015 10:26 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Oct 2015 21:52:48 +0000, Stephen wrote:
>
>>>> Elevator music is another name for musak. Which is often heard when on
>>>> hold. Or in a hotel foyer.
>>>
>>> So "elevator musak" is redundant. ;)
>>>
>> No it is an emphasiser like saying hot hot.
>
> If you say so - it sounds more like "PIN Number" or "ATM Machine" to
> me. ;)
>

Quite right. But the question, now is: Why did he do it?
Elevator Musak is not in common usage. I made it up especially for you.


>>>>>> I was talking about Edinburgh Rock. The best thing to come out of
>>>>>> Edinburgh, the road to Glasgow, excluded. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll have to remember that one the next time I'm talking with friends
>>>>> who live in Scotland.  Especially the ones who live in Edinburgh. ;)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> It is a steal from Dr Johnson.
>>>
>>> Oh, sure, try and defer the credit. ;)
>>>
>>>
>> Just trying to save you embarrassment. The phrase is very well known, by
>> the educated. :P
>
> Oooh, them's fightin' words! ;)
>

Only amongst people who are not friends.


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On Wed, 28 Oct 2015 22:44:47 +0000, Stephen wrote:

>>>> So "elevator musak" is redundant. ;)
>>>>
>>> No it is an emphasiser like saying hot hot.
>>
>> If you say so - it sounds more like "PIN Number" or "ATM Machine" to
>> me. ;)
>>
> Quite right. But the question, now is: Why did he do it?
> Elevator Musak is not in common usage. I made it up especially for you.

So many questions.  I think you did it for the points. ;)

>>> Just trying to save you embarrassment. The phrase is very well known,
>>> by the educated. :P
>>
>> Oooh, them's fightin' words! ;)
>>
>>
> Only amongst people who are not friends.

;)

Jim



-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

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On 10/28/2015 11:25 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> So many questions.

Are we there yet?

> I think you did it for the points.;)

And points mean...?


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On 26/10/2015 07:01 PM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> Don't get me wrong, I think it's *way* easier to learn system-level
> programming on obsolete hardware. (It's how *I* did it!) But I doubt
> many kids these days would get out of bed to see some blocky 8-bit
> graphics.

https://hackaday.com/2015/10/19/diy-computer-1968-style/

"You can argue that times change and that the paperclip computer is a 
relic. Maybe. But I can’t help think if you built one of 
these–especially as a kid–you’d get a lot more insight into how a 
computer actually works than by only slinging some Javascript, or 
setting up a Web server on a Raspberry Pi."

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