>> I haven't met them. Everybody I've met regards having technical
>> knowledge as only something "nerds" and "losers" have - including the
>> people I work with, who are all professional computer programmers. They
>> all know how to write C#, yet they seem to think that understanding
>> relational algebra or knowing how floating-point arithmetic works is
>> only for lamers.
>
> That is because you have academic interests. Most professional computer
> programmers, I work with. Do it because it is a job. Not for love.

This.

Everybody I met at university was like "OMG, this is SOOO boring! Just 
give me the piece of paper so I can start earning thousands of pounds 
per hour as a top London computing consultant."

Everybody seemed to think that computing is *excruciatingly* boring, but 
also that there's billions of pounds in it. Like, if you have any 
computer skills at all, you're going to be a millionaire. (Still, it 
*was* right around the height of the dot-com bubble I suppose...)

>>> And I agree with John: you would be an excellent teacher.
>>
>> Again, I don't know. I'm good at writing long monologues that nobody
>> will ever read; interacting with a room full of live humans is quite
>> different. It requires a different skill set.
>
> Unless you can use your competitive dancing skills to be in front of an
> audience.

Uh, I do competitive dancing; what makes you think I have *skills*? :-P

Unless you mean I give the lecture while dancing the quickstep. ^_-

>> My Dad tells me [so I don't know how true this is] that Bach was a
>> virtuoso organ player, but a HORRIBLE teacher. He just couldn't
>> understand why nobody else could play like him...
>
> And his throw away scales became the Brandenburg Concertos.

Hey, I think I have the score for that somewhere...

Post a reply to this message

On 15/02/2015 11:17, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>>> My mum wanted me to do a PhD. I have no idea why. As best as I can tell
>>> from reading Stack Overflow, if you have a PhD then you are basically
>>> over-qualified for 99% of all employment opportunities ever, and you'll
>>> never be able to work outside academia ever again.
>>
>> Maybe Mother knows best. :-)
>
> I doubt it. :-P
>
> As I say, it seems to just preclude you ever getting employed, ever again.
>

For Arts graduates maybe. I have met so many PhD doctors at work. I only 
look up to Misters. ;-)
Having a higher degree in maths type subjects would open doors to 
better/more interesting jobs.

>> Going from your mathematical ramblings. I think that you would be
>> eminently suitable to do a PhD at a good university. Not one of those
>> who were ennobled, just to take the overflow from schools. When
>> politicians decided it would keep them off the dole for another three
>> years.
>
> Fun fact: They stopped giving out university grants just a year or two
> before I started university. I AM STILL PAYING FOR MY TUITION! More than
> a decade later... *sigh*
>

Scandalous!


>
> Favourite anecdote:


It only saddens me it does not surprise me.


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 15-2-2015 12:24, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>>> I haven't met them. Everybody I've met regards having technical
>>> knowledge as only something "nerds" and "losers" have - including the
>>> people I work with, who are all professional computer programmers. They
>>> all know how to write C#, yet they seem to think that understanding
>>> relational algebra or knowing how floating-point arithmetic works is
>>> only for lamers.
>>
>> That is because you have academic interests. Most professional computer
>> programmers, I work with. Do it because it is a job. Not for love.
>
> This.
>
> Everybody I met at university was like "OMG, this is SOOO boring! Just
> give me the piece of paper so I can start earning thousands of pounds
> per hour as a top London computing consultant."
>
> Everybody seemed to think that computing is *excruciatingly* boring, but
> also that there's billions of pounds in it. Like, if you have any
> computer skills at all, you're going to be a millionaire. (Still, it
> *was* right around the height of the dot-com bubble I suppose...)

I am not a computer professional so that world is indeed foreign to me, 
but what you and Stephen are saying truly appals me... But then I may be 
from an alien planet: I have never been /really/ interested in money... :-)

>
>>>> And I agree with John: you would be an excellent teacher.
>>>
>>> Again, I don't know. I'm good at writing long monologues that nobody
>>> will ever read; interacting with a room full of live humans is quite
>>> different. It requires a different skill set.

That last is indeed true but can be learned with practice (like 
dancing). Writing skills, which you have already, is more difficult to 
learn. I must say that I enjoy your long monologues btw.

>>
>> Unless you can use your competitive dancing skills to be in front of an
>> audience.
>
> Uh, I do competitive dancing; what makes you think I have *skills*? :-P
>
> Unless you mean I give the lecture while dancing the quickstep. ^_-

Seriously, in a good lecture before an audience, some kind of 
choreography (even body language) is of paramount importance. Whatever 
the subject.

>
>>> My Dad tells me [so I don't know how true this is] that Bach was a
>>> virtuoso organ player, but a HORRIBLE teacher. He just couldn't
>>> understand why nobody else could play like him...
>>
>> And his throw away scales became the Brandenburg Concertos.
>
> Hey, I think I have the score for that somewhere...

Great stuff indeed.

-- 
Thomas

Post a reply to this message

On 15/02/2015 11:16 AM, Stephen wrote:
> That is because you have academic interests. Most professional computer
> programmers, I work with. Do it because it is a job. Not for love.

Having said that... The company I work for employs a grant total of 9 
people. The company has sold less than 100 units in its entire 10-year 
history. I cannot *imagine* that anybody here is particularly well-paid.

And yet, if you look through source control, you will find the 
occasional commit performed at 2AM. Nobody gets *paid* to do that. 
People occasionally choose to do that out of... well, something that 
isn't money anyway. (And no, it's not deadline pressure; we don't have 
deadlines. Or pressure of any kind, really.)

Still, while my colleagues genuinely want to make the software the best 
it can be (and not just because they get paid to do that), I am 
apparently the only person in the building who thinks that computer 
science is a worthwhile endeavour. Everybody else just hits Google until 
the problem goes away, without bothering to understand why. I find that 
a little disturbing.

But not as disturbing as me getting paid to do C++ when I know nothing 
about it! o_O

Post a reply to this message

On 15-2-2015 13:14, Stephen wrote:
> On 15/02/2015 11:17, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>>>> My mum wanted me to do a PhD. I have no idea why. As best as I can tell
>>>> from reading Stack Overflow, if you have a PhD then you are basically
>>>> over-qualified for 99% of all employment opportunities ever, and you'll
>>>> never be able to work outside academia ever again.
>>>
>>> Maybe Mother knows best. :-)
>>
>> I doubt it. :-P
>>
>> As I say, it seems to just preclude you ever getting employed, ever
>> again.
>>
>
> For Arts graduates maybe. I have met so many PhD doctors at work. I only
> look up to Misters. ;-)
> Having a higher degree in maths type subjects would open doors to
> better/more interesting jobs.

I second that.

>
>>> Going from your mathematical ramblings. I think that you would be
>>> eminently suitable to do a PhD at a good university. Not one of those
>>> who were ennobled, just to take the overflow from schools. When
>>> politicians decided it would keep them off the dole for another three
>>> years.
>>
>> Fun fact: They stopped giving out university grants just a year or two
>> before I started university. I AM STILL PAYING FOR MY TUITION! More than
>> a decade later... *sigh*
>>
>
> Scandalous!
>
>
>>
>> Favourite anecdote:
>
>
> It only saddens me it does not surprise me.
>
Sadly, I second that too.

-- 
Thomas

Post a reply to this message

On 15/02/2015 11:24, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:

> This.
>
> Everybody I met at university was like "OMG, this is SOOO boring! Just
> give me the piece of paper so I can start earning thousands of pounds
> per hour as a top London computing consultant."
>
> Everybody seemed to think that computing is *excruciatingly* boring, but
> also that there's billions of pounds in it. Like, if you have any
> computer skills at all, you're going to be a millionaire. (Still, it
> *was* right around the height of the dot-com bubble I suppose...)
>

"They" forgot to mention that the high pay would drop when the demand 
was filled by themselves.



>> Unless you can use your competitive dancing skills to be in front of an
>> audience.
>
> Uh, I do competitive dancing; what makes you think I have *skills*? :-P
>


Performance skills before an audience. I meant.
I did a job a couple of years ago where I had to deliver training 
courses. I had never done anything like it before. When I got my sea 
legs. It was SHOWTIME!!!
I really enjoyed it. But somehow I don't see you being comfortable in 
front of an audience, yet.

> Unless you mean I give the lecture while dancing the quickstep. ^_-
>

Tap would be more appropriate. IMO. ;-)

>>> My Dad tells me [so I don't know how true this is] that Bach was a
>>> virtuoso organ player, but a HORRIBLE teacher. He just couldn't
>>> understand why nobody else could play like him...
>>
>> And his throw away scales became the Brandenburg Concertos.
>
> Hey, I think I have the score for that somewhere...

The story goes that he gave them to his patron to play with his amateur 
orchestra.


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 15/02/2015 12:26, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>
> I am not a computer professional so that world is indeed foreign to me,
> but what you and Stephen are saying truly appals me... But then I may be
> from an alien planet: I have never been /really/ interested in money... :-)
>

 From a Dutchman! We will keep that quiet. ;-)
During my time in Aberdeen I met a lot of geologists who only studded it 
to get a job in the Oil Industry.


>> Unless you mean I give the lecture while dancing the quickstep. ^_-
>
> Seriously, in a good lecture before an audience, some kind of
> choreography (even body language) is of paramount importance. Whatever
> the subject.
>

Good body awareness is important. You don't want to knock your coffee 
over your notes.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 15/02/2015 12:26 PM, Thomas de Groot wrote:

> I am not a computer professional so that world is indeed foreign to me,
> but what you and Stephen are saying truly appals me... But then I may be
> from an alien planet: I have never been /really/ interested in money... :-)

There is something deeply worrying about... OK, so let's try this. Come 
on this journey with me.

You see a job advert for an English / French translator. The advert says 
there will be a test during the interview. You don't know a single word 
of French, but you think to yourself "bah, nobody will notice. I'll just 
Google search of the words when I need to. It'll be fine."

WHAT. THE. HELL.

I'm sorry, IN WHICH UNIVERSE IS NOBODY GOING TO NOTICE?! What the HELL 
are you smoking?!!

Nobody thinks this will work. Nobody ever tries this. Because nobody is 
that stupid. But replace being able to write French with being able to 
write C#, and suddenly everybody thinks that somehow "nobody will 
notice". Wuh?!

I went to one interview where there was an SQL test. The job advert says 
that SQL knowledge is required. The job advert says there will be a 
test. There is no time limit on the test. The test is OPEN BOOK; you 
have access to the Microsoft SQL Server help file [but not the 
Internet]. You have a computer in front of you to test your answers with.

According to the interviewer, people turned up with "20 years' SQL 
experience" and failed to answer a single question.

That was the moment when I realised something: People LIE on their CV.

I mean, sure, I know people *exaggerate* their capabilities. But this 
revelation left me stunned. Anybody who claims to have "20 years' SQL 
experience" and yet cannot figure out how to select all customers from 
the customer table is LYING. This is not an exaggeration for dramatic 
effect, this is outright FRAUD. Strictly speaking, this is ILLEGAL.

I used to be worried about overstating my abilities on my CV, lest I 
give people the impression that I have capabilities that I don't. Now I 
only worry about how to tell people that I'm not just MAKING CRAP UP! 
Some people's CVs clearly have no connection to reality. How do you 
prove to people trying to hire you that you're not just talking nonsense?

Also: FizzBuzz exists. Because, from what I've seen, 99% of all the 
people you interview have NO IDEA how to write software. I don't mean 
they're not very good at it, I mean... Imagine hiring a lorry driver, 
and finding out he doesn't know which pedal is the brake and which one 
is the accelerator. This person CLEARLY has never sat behind the 
controls of a vehicle - no matter WHAT his CV claims.

We started doing phone screenings rather than waste our time with 
hopeless people. We find a website where you can watch the other person 
type, in real-time, as they type it. Almost everybody who reaches this 
stage doesn't get to have a face-to-face interview. A few people got 
creative though:

* While talking to one guy, we could *clearly* hear somebody else 
sitting next to him telling him what to type. Er, REJECT!

* Another guy, we asked him to write some code. We can hear typey typey 
typey. Er, can you type into the window please? Typey, typey, typey, 
BAM! Suddenly a huge block of text appears all at once. In other 
words... you just Googled the answer and copy-pasted it, didn't you? REJECT!

Seriously, how the **** do people think we're not gonna notice this 
stuff? Let us suppose, for argument's sake, that you somehow trick us 
into interviewing you... Do you REALLY THINK it won't instantly become 
EXTREMELY OBVIOUS that you're bluffing? How do you actually see this 
playing out? Are you mental?!

I wonder... Does anybody have this much trouble hiring a carpenter?

>>>>> And I agree with John: you would be an excellent teacher.
>>>>
>>>> Again, I don't know. I'm good at writing long monologues that nobody
>>>> will ever read; interacting with a room full of live humans is quite
>>>> different. It requires a different skill set.
>
> That last is indeed true but can be learned with practice (like
> dancing). Writing skills, which you have already, is more difficult to
> learn.

I guess that just leaves us with the problem of nobody wanting to learn 
then. ;-)

> I must say that I enjoy your long monologues btw.

Oh, well, I'm glad somebody does. Sometimes it does feel like I'm 
talking to myself...

> Seriously, in a good lecture before an audience, some kind of
> choreography (even body language) is of paramount importance. Whatever
> the subject.

I'm sure if I give a lecture while doing the Charleston to some 
authentic music, everybody will remember me. No idea if they'll remember 
a damned thing I said, but... ^_^

Post a reply to this message

>> As I say, it seems to just preclude you ever getting employed, ever
>> again.
>
> For Arts graduates maybe. I have met so many PhD doctors at work. I only
> look up to Misters. ;-)
> Having a higher degree in maths type subjects would open doors to
> better/more interesting jobs.

According to the Academia Stack Exchange portal, it seems if you have a 
PhD, everybody immediately assumes you're going to be hellishly 
expensive to hire and summarily drops you from consideration.

Unless you want to work in the finance industry, which only exists in 
London.

>> Fun fact: They stopped giving out university grants just a year or two
>> before I started university. I AM STILL PAYING FOR MY TUITION! More than
>> a decade later... *sigh*
>>
>
> Scandalous!

Hey, I spent 10 years earning minimum wage, so...

>> Favourite anecdote:
>
> It only saddens me it does not surprise me.

In fairness, while he only said a few sentences, it was immediately 
clear to me that he knew what he was talking about. As in, logarithms 
aren't just something he heard about once, he actually *understood* 
them. (As opposed to merely rote-memorising some facts about them.)

Post a reply to this message

Am 14.02.2015 um 16:33 schrieb Orchid Win7 v1:
> OK, so it's been a while since I posted a big wall of text. So here goes...

I wouldn't normally respond to this posting of yours, but just to let 
you know how much interest there is in reading such posts, I hereby 
declare that I did read it with interest. Huffman coding wasn't new to 
me, so I skipped over that part, and I'm also somewhat familiar with 
Markov chains including PPM, but range encoding is an interesting 
concept I hadn't heard of before. Also, I do start to notice that human 
memory seems to be made up of DRAM cells, so a refresh cycle now and 
then is most welcome ;)

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