On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 06:02:05 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 24/09/2012 11:08 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Of course it also helps to know that in wine tasting "sweet" generally
>> means lower alcohol content as well - the sugars aren't converted to
>> alcohol,
> 
> I thought that it was the other way around. Sweet wine has higher
> alcohol content because the yeast is killed off when the alcohol reaches
> a certain level, leaving some sugar unfermented.

Hmmm, now I think of it, I might well have had it backwards.  Had a 
raspberry dessert wine last night, 14% alcohol content, and it was fairly 
sweet.

Jim

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Le 2012-09-25 01:02, Stephen a écrit :
> On 24/09/2012 11:08 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Of
>> course it also helps to know that in wine tasting "sweet" generally means
>> lower alcohol content as well - the sugars aren't converted to alcohol,
>
> I thought that it was the other way around. Sweet wine has higher
> alcohol content because the yeast is killed off when the alcohol reaches
> a certain level, leaving some sugar unfermented.
>

It depends.

Fortified wines (such as port and sherry) have 97% alcohol added to kill 
the yeast to (historically to allow for easier transportation back to 
England) causing some of the sugar to remain - and contributing to the 
higher alcohol contents.

Dessert wines have so much sugar in them to begin with that the yeast 
can not convert it all to alcohol, so the wine remains sweet after 
fermentation.

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Le 26/09/2012 16:18, Francois Labreque nous fit lire :
> Le 2012-09-25 01:02, Stephen a écrit :
>> On 24/09/2012 11:08 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> Of
>>> course it also helps to know that in wine tasting "sweet" generally
>>> means
>>> lower alcohol content as well - the sugars aren't converted to alcohol,
>>
>> I thought that it was the other way around. Sweet wine has higher
>> alcohol content because the yeast is killed off when the alcohol reaches
>> a certain level, leaving some sugar unfermented.
>>
> 
> It depends.
> 
> Fortified wines (such as port and sherry) have 97% alcohol added to kill
> the yeast to (historically to allow for easier transportation back to
> England) causing some of the sugar to remain - and contributing to the
> higher alcohol contents.

mmmh... porto got only 1:4 of 77% alcohol (brandy). (so 1/5 at the end)

sherry (Xeres) are distilled, the aims being to reduce the volume for
the transportation (from Spain to England... or is it United Kingdom ?
Scot & Ireland already had their whisk(e)y, what about Wales ? Northen
Ireland ? Common Wealth ?... I probably got many wrong!)

It seems that associating Porto & Sherry in the same sentence is like
pairing Scottish whisky and Ireland's one... single distillation or
triple distillation... hmmm holy war.

> 
> Dessert wines have so much sugar in them to begin with that the yeast
> can not convert it all to alcohol, so the wine remains sweet after
> fermentation.
> 
The basic fact: the higher the sugar, the less you *feel* the alcohol.

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On 26/09/2012 3:18 PM, Francois Labreque wrote:
>
> It depends.
>

It does indeed.


> Fortified wines (such as port and sherry) have 97%

That is percentage proof, I believe. Not by volume.

>
> Dessert wines have so much sugar in them to begin with that the yeast
> can not convert it all to alcohol, so the wine remains sweet after
> fermentation.

In America fortified wines were called dessert wines to make them sound 
less obviously alcoholic.


-- 
Regards
     Stephen

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On 26/09/2012 6:37 PM, Le_Forgeron wrote:
> sherry (Xeres) are distilled, the aims being to reduce the volume for
> the transportation (from Spain to England... or is it United Kingdom ?
> Scot & Ireland already had their whisk(e)y, what about Wales ? Northen
> Ireland ? Common Wealth ?... I probably got many wrong!)

It was Great Britain then the UK in 1801.
At the time we are talking about, there was only Ireland and the Old 
Bushmills Distillery claims to be the oldest licensed distillery in the 
world. Whisky was distilled in Wales too and the Welsh Whisky Company 
has not long started distilling Penderyn single malt.

Personally I prefer my whisky without, that is without an "e" and 
without water or ice, if you are buying. :-)

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

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Le 2012-09-26 13:37, Le_Forgeron a écrit :
> Le 26/09/2012 16:18, Francois Labreque nous fit lire :
>> Le 2012-09-25 01:02, Stephen a écrit :
>>> On 24/09/2012 11:08 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>>> Of
>>>> course it also helps to know that in wine tasting "sweet" generally
>>>> means
>>>> lower alcohol content as well - the sugars aren't converted to alcohol,
>>>
>>> I thought that it was the other way around. Sweet wine has higher
>>> alcohol content because the yeast is killed off when the alcohol reaches
>>> a certain level, leaving some sugar unfermented.
>>>
>>
>> It depends.
>>
>> Fortified wines (such as port and sherry) have 97% alcohol added to kill
>> the yeast to (historically to allow for easier transportation back to
>> England) causing some of the sugar to remain - and contributing to the
>> higher alcohol contents.
>
> mmmh... porto got only 1:4 of 77% alcohol (brandy). (so 1/5 at the end)
>

Didn't imply that Porto was 97% alcohol. ;)

> sherry (Xeres) are distilled, the aims being to reduce the volume for
> the transportation (from Spain to England... or is it United Kingdom ?
> Scot & Ireland already had their whisk(e)y, what about Wales ? Northen
> Ireland ? Common Wealth ?... I probably got many wrong!)
>

Sherry (or Xeres or Jerez) wine is not distilled.

> It seems that associating Porto & Sherry in the same sentence is like
> pairing Scottish whisky and Ireland's one... single distillation or
> triple distillation... hmmm holy war.
>

Same process is applied to both.  One is done with wine from the Douro 
valley in Portugal, the other is done to wine from the Jerez area in Spain.

The other difference between the two is that sherry barrels are always 
mixed with previous years, so that the bottle that you buy today 
contains a few molecules that have been sitting in a cask for as long 
that particular vineyard existed.

>>
>> Dessert wines have so much sugar in them to begin with that the yeast
>> can not convert it all to alcohol, so the wine remains sweet after
>> fermentation.
>>
> The basic fact: the higher the sugar, the less you *feel* the alcohol.
>

Yep.

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Le 2012-09-26 13:41, Stephen a écrit :
> On 26/09/2012 3:18 PM, Francois Labreque wrote:
>>
>> It depends.
>>
>
> It does indeed.
>
>
>> Fortified wines (such as port and sherry) have 97%
>
> That is percentage proof, I believe. Not by volume.
>
>>
>> Dessert wines have so much sugar in them to begin with that the yeast
>> can not convert it all to alcohol, so the wine remains sweet after
>> fermentation.
>
> In America fortified wines were called dessert wines to make them sound
> less obviously alcoholic.
>
>
Right.  I was talking about ice wines, late harvest wines, etc... that 
have higher sugar contents due to the water evaporating or freezing.

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