On 19/09/2012 02:26 PM, Francois Labreque wrote:
> The contractors I have worked with were usually on 1-year contracts,

Like I say, finding /one/ job is hard enough. Having to find a job every 
12 months would just be intractably difficult.

> Most would refuse the offer since they prefered the
> liberty of being able to change jobs whenever they wanted.

This could make sense, if we were in an employee's market. But currently 
we are in an employer's market.

(Currently the market is flooded with people looking for work. That 
gives employers the power to be very fussy about who they hire.)

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On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:29:35 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:

> On 17/09/2012 04:52 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> You've got a severance package, don't wait for it to run out.  Start
>> now and don't give up.
> 
> Now? I started several weeks ago. :-P (I've already been to 2 interviews
> this summer, remember? That equals my previous record of 2 interviews
> this human lifetime...)

The outplacement service I was given access to with the layoff said that 
one should be doing 4-5 interviews a week IIRC, and sending 20-30 CVs a 
week.  It's all about numbers.

Now, myself, I haven't done that kind of volume myself.  And 16 months 
later, I'm still looking for a full-time position.  But I'm also being 
very picky about who I even apply to - and since I have contract work 
bringing in income, I can afford to be a little more picky.

>> If I break a leg or am in an auto accident, I'm pretty much screwed.
> 
> Uh, yeah. It must be great living in a country where if you have a
> health problem but you're not rich enough to pay a doctor, they just
> leave you to die... (What is this, the 5th century or something?!)

Well, no, they don't leave you to die (though there are some who would be 
perfectly happy to do so).  You go to the emergency room and get the 
minimum care necessary to keep you alive - and then you end up paying for 
anything else until you go bankrupt.

Fortunately, the new health care law addresses part of that problem - 
along with lifetime maximum coverage (without which, even people with 
coverage can/have gone bankrupt if they contract something that requires 
a lifetime of expensive meds and treatments).

Jim

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On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:35:50 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:

> On 17/09/2012 04:52 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> I suggested contract work before, and I'll suggest it again.  It's a
>> way to get the bills paid.
> 
> I don't get that.
> 
> Currently, I am unemployed, which is a problem. It means I have to waste
> endless hours of my life vainly searching for employment. But
> eventually, I will [hopefully] find a job, at which point I no longer
> have that particular problem.
> 
> "Contact works" basically means "being /permanently/ unemployed". It
> means you spend two or three weeks per year getting paid, and the rest
> of the entire year desperately looking for your next contact. There's no
> way I could deal with that level of stress. (Not to mention the extreme
> financial problems...) I really don't get why anybody would voluntarily
> work that way.

Yeah, two or three weeks getting paid.

Oh, wait, no - my current contract started in July and runs through the 
end of December.  Unless I can't count, that's more than 2-3 weeks.

And it's not the only one I've done.

The money is very good (but it's all pre-tax, so here in the US, we have 
to submit a quarterly estimate and pay our taxes with that estimate).

So as is fairly common, you base your feeling on how something works from 
a completely unrealistic view of how it actually works, and then decide 
that it's not for you.

Jim

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On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:29:52 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:

> On 19/09/2012 02:26 PM, Francois Labreque wrote:
>> The contractors I have worked with were usually on 1-year contracts,
> 
> Like I say, finding /one/ job is hard enough. Having to find a job every
> 12 months would just be intractably difficult.

In my experience this past year, it's been easier.  Partly because 
contract employees don't count as "head count", which means it comes out 
of a different budget.

A contract is also becoming a more and more common way for auditioning 
for a permanent position.

Jim

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On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:30:22 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:

> On 18/09/2012 06:37 AM, Stephen wrote:
>> I don’t think that taking a menial job is a good idea. For a start it
>> would limit your time looking for a suitable job. It would not do your
>> self esteem any good either. You are not hurting for money ATM and you
>> don’t have the pressure of a mortgage or supporting a wife and kids. So
>> make looking for a suitable job your job.
> 
> This.

Then *do* it.

And don't cite your two interviews and say that you are.  That's not 
spending 8 hours a day working on finding something, networking with 
people, and considering all options carefully, and weighing the pros and 
cons (for example, a job that has a commute might be offset by a 
significant pay increase or a willingness on the part of the prospective 
employer to let you work from home).

Jim

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On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:32:36 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:

>>> What I would say is don't get complacent just because you have
>>> severance to cover you through the next few months. Keep looking,
>>> You'll find something.
>>
>> Yes - this * 1000.  Consider the severance as "my old employer is
>> paying me to find a new job" and treat it accordingly.
> 
> Agreed.
> 
>> Office hours are the best time to contact people who can get you in for
>> a new job.
> 
> Yeah, it makes a change to be able to just phone people, without having
> to find somewhere I can hide so I can make the call without
> interruptions...

Here in the US, it's possible to reserve a conference room at the local 
library.  You might try that if that's something that's available in the 
UK.

Or the local job centre might have a place for making private calls.

Jim

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>> I don’t think that taking a menial job is a good idea. For a start it
>> would limit your time looking for a suitable job. It would not do your
>> self esteem any good either. You are not hurting for money ATM and you
>> don’t have the pressure of a mortgage or supporting a wife and kids. So
>> make looking for a suitable job your job.
>
> This.

Also you're lucky that you have a bit of money, so you'll be able to 
start renting accommodation straight away to start your job. A lot of 
people can't do that because you might not get your first pay check 
until you've been working for 3-6 weeks.

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> The outplacement service I was given access to with the layoff said that
> one should be doing 4-5 interviews a week IIRC, and sending 20-30 CVs a
> week.  It's all about numbers.

I'm not sure how you could even achieve that. I'm not sure I could find 
that many [remotely relevant] jobs to apply for. But more to the point, 
you control how many applications you send out; you do /not/ have any 
control at all over how many interviews you get invited to. :-P

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> Yeah, two or three weeks getting paid.
>
> Oh, wait, no - my current contract started in July and runs through the
> end of December.  Unless I can't count, that's more than 2-3 weeks.

OK. But that still leaves you with the issue that come December, you 
have no idea if you'll ever get another contract with anyone ever again.

Given that being unemployed is an extremely dangerous thing, why 
wouldn't you try to minimise the possibility of it happening?

> So as is fairly common, you base your feeling on how something works from
> a completely unrealistic view of how it actually works, and then decide
> that it's not for you.

I'm just saying. It's not like jobs grow on trees...

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> Then *do* it.

What makes you think I'm not doing it?

> That's not spending 8 hours a day working on finding something,

What can you actually *do* for 8 hours straight, every single day, which 
will have any meaningful impact on your chances of finding work?

Seriously, if I did an Internet search and blindly applied for every 
single job that turned up [which is probably a bad idea], that would 
still only take, like, an hour or so. What are the other 7 for?

> networking with people,

How does this work? I don't really understand what "networking" is, or 
how it's useful. I sort of vaguely see the idea behind it, but that's 
about it.

> and considering all options carefully, and weighing the pros and cons

Gotta find something to look at before you can weigh anything up.

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