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>> Clearly I'm going to have to figure out how to get my hands on
>> professional tuition...
>
> Private lessons might be the best way to go. Not sure what pricing is
> like now, but a lot of professional musicians do offer private lessons
> (you could also look for University music students who give private
> lessons - often times those will be less expensive and the instruction
> will be good enough to get you going).
I'll see what I can find.
>> I enjoy doing it. And then the day after, my fingers hate me... ;-)
>
> That sounds about right for the first 6 months or so.
Just like playing the guitar, or probably any other stringed instrument.
>> It must be fantastic to actually be good at something. I can't imagine
>> what that's like...
>
> Actually, you don't have to imagine it. You're good at some stuff - and
> nobody is good at everything.
>
> You seem to have a good grasp on maths, programming, playing the pipe
> organ (as you said, there's something you play on it that's "wicked hard"
> - so clearly you don't /suck/ at it), writing, and dancing. And that's
> just from what I've seen you post here about and blog about.
Well, there's being "good at" something, and then there's being "great
at" something.
I can play the Widor toccata - just not very well. I can write computer
programs, but according to Warp and Darren I suck at that. I'm competing
in a national dance competition, but I don't exactly expect to be
bringing home any medals. The list goes on. Basically there's a whole
range of things that I'm vaguely good at, but nothing that's really
going to /impress/ anybody.
It's a pity really, because impressing people seems to be what I'm
hard-wired to want to do...
> It's certainly a truism that the more you know about something, the more
> you realize you don't know everything about it.
I know, right? So you go to a dance class, and you learn the Waltz. And
there are, like, 3 steps in it, and nobody can do it. At all. And
eventually, after a few months, you get to the point where you can do
those 3 steps. And you think "hey, I can Waltz!"
And over time, you come to realise that, actually, to Waltz /properly/,
you're supposed to stand a certain way, hold your arm a certain way,
step in a certain way, sway a certain way, and basically that thing
you're doing is NOTHING LIKE how a Waltz is actually supposed to look.
You can't Waltz, you SUCK at the Waltz! :-/
It seems that everything is like that. When I was a kid, I used to write
computer programs in BASIC, and I thought that made me a programmer.
Then you have people tell you "hey, global variables are evil" and "GOTO
is evil" and "your code is completely non-maintainable" and basically
you realise that you're doing it HORRIBLY WRONG.
It seems in every sphere, the more you learn, the more you realise that
there's so much stuff you don't know that it seems impossible that you
could ever learn it all. You haven't even STARTED!
Truly, the greatest knowledge is in knowing that you know NOTHING.
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On Mon, 21 May 2012 09:54:36 +0100, Invisible wrote:
>>> I enjoy doing it. And then the day after, my fingers hate me... ;-)
>>
>> That sounds about right for the first 6 months or so.
>
> Just like playing the guitar, or probably any other stringed instrument.
I don't have any experience with the guitar (so Warp will probably
correct me as he does and is pretty good from what I've seen), but I
think with the frets, you don't have to apply as much pressure as you do
on a fretless instrument, so it probably doesn't induce the same amount
of pain or trouble when you're out of practice.
But both probably build the callouses so you don't have the pain. :)
>> You seem to have a good grasp on maths, programming, playing the pipe
>> organ (as you said, there's something you play on it that's "wicked
>> hard"
>> - so clearly you don't /suck/ at it), writing, and dancing. And that's
>> just from what I've seen you post here about and blog about.
>
> Well, there's being "good at" something, and then there's being "great
> at" something.
>
> I can play the Widor toccata - just not very well. I can write computer
> programs, but according to Warp and Darren I suck at that. I'm competing
> in a national dance competition, but I don't exactly expect to be
> bringing home any medals. The list goes on. Basically there's a whole
> range of things that I'm vaguely good at, but nothing that's really
> going to /impress/ anybody.
I'm impressed that you're willing to try different things. A lot of
people who get into your mindset stop trying new things because they're
afraid of failure. Courage isn't the same as being without fear.
Courage is having fear and doing something anyway, taking the risk to try
something new.
> It's a pity really, because impressing people seems to be what I'm
> hard-wired to want to do...
Most people want to impress people. The trick is to just keep doing the
thing you like doing and get better at it. You're only 30 years old -
contrary to what you believe, that doesn't make you an "old man". You've
got decades ahead of you, and there's a good chance that you'll (a) find
something you feel you excel at, and (b) you'll be good enough at it that
people will say "wow" often.
>> It's certainly a truism that the more you know about something, the
>> more you realize you don't know everything about it.
>
> I know, right? So you go to a dance class, and you learn the Waltz. And
> there are, like, 3 steps in it, and nobody can do it. At all. And
> eventually, after a few months, you get to the point where you can do
> those 3 steps. And you think "hey, I can Waltz!"
>
> And over time, you come to realise that, actually, to Waltz /properly/,
> you're supposed to stand a certain way, hold your arm a certain way,
> step in a certain way, sway a certain way, and basically that thing
> you're doing is NOTHING LIKE how a Waltz is actually supposed to look.
> You can't Waltz, you SUCK at the Waltz! :-/
>
> It seems that everything is like that. When I was a kid, I used to write
> computer programs in BASIC, and I thought that made me a programmer.
> Then you have people tell you "hey, global variables are evil" and "GOTO
> is evil" and "your code is completely non-maintainable" and basically
> you realise that you're doing it HORRIBLY WRONG.
>
> It seems in every sphere, the more you learn, the more you realise that
> there's so much stuff you don't know that it seems impossible that you
> could ever learn it all. You haven't even STARTED!
>
> Truly, the greatest knowledge is in knowing that you know NOTHING.
They say "ignorance is bliss" - and there is a certain amount of truth in
that. But ignorance leads to lots of bad outcomes as well, and I for one
would rather have a chance at a better outcome than to be blissfully
unaware of facts.
Jim
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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospam com> wrote:
> I don't have any experience with the guitar (so Warp will probably
> correct me as he does and is pretty good from what I've seen), but I
> think with the frets, you don't have to apply as much pressure as you do
> on a fretless instrument, so it probably doesn't induce the same amount
> of pain or trouble when you're out of practice.
I have never played a fretless instrument so I really don't know, but
I'm assuming there's not much difference in pressure needed.
Fretless instruments certainly require more precision because pressing
even slightly on the wrong place will audibly alter the pitch, so you'll
sound like you are playing a badly tuned instrument.
On the plus side, a fretless instrument allows much easier and richer
vibratos and pitch slides that are much more limited in fretted instruments.
--
- Warp
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On 21/05/2012 07:34 PM, Warp wrote:
> I have never played a fretless instrument so I really don't know, but
> I'm assuming there's not much difference in pressure needed.
I've found that if I don't press all that hard, the strings sound very
muted. Presumably because I have soft squishy fingertips. If the string
was resting against a hard metal fret, that wouldn't matter so much.
But yeah, I don't think there's a /massive/ difference in pressure...
> Fretless instruments certainly require more precision because pressing
> even slightly on the wrong place will audibly alter the pitch, so you'll
> sound like you are playing a badly tuned instrument.
Oh hell yes! So far, I've spent almost all of my time and effort with
this violin just trying to get the correct pitch. Pro tip: Notes that
are out of tune sound GOD DAMNED AWFUL! >_<
> On the plus side, a fretless instrument allows much easier and richer
> vibratos and pitch slides that are much more limited in fretted instruments.
And that, of course, is what the violin is famous for... ;-)
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> I'm impressed that you're willing to try different things. A lot of
> people who get into your mindset stop trying new things because they're
> afraid of failure.
More like, failure is something I /expect/, as a matter of course.
Success isn't something I see very often...
> Courage isn't the same as being without fear.
> Courage is having fear and doing something anyway, taking the risk to try
> something new.
Well now there's a true word.
>> It's a pity really, because impressing people seems to be what I'm
>> hard-wired to want to do...
>
> Most people want to impress people. The trick is to just keep doing the
> thing you like doing and get better at it. You're only 30 years old -
> contrary to what you believe, that doesn't make you an "old man". You've
> got decades ahead of you, and there's a good chance that you'll (a) find
> something you feel you excel at, and (b) you'll be good enough at it that
> people will say "wow" often.
Heh, well, here's to hoping. Sadly, all the things I try seem to be
things that don't impress anybody. :-(
>> Truly, the greatest knowledge is in knowing that you know NOTHING.
>
> They say "ignorance is bliss" - and there is a certain amount of truth in
> that. But ignorance leads to lots of bad outcomes as well, and I for one
> would rather have a chance at a better outcome than to be blissfully
> unaware of facts.
Agreed.
(Speaking as somebody who's spent most of their life cluelessly unaware
of everybody laughing behind my back...)
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On Mon, 21 May 2012 20:04:51 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>> I'm impressed that you're willing to try different things. A lot of
>> people who get into your mindset stop trying new things because they're
>> afraid of failure.
>
> More like, failure is something I /expect/, as a matter of course.
> Success isn't something I see very often...
I think you need to define success as something less than perfection. It
sounds like you're convinced that anything less is failure - and that's
not true.
>>> It's a pity really, because impressing people seems to be what I'm
>>> hard-wired to want to do...
>>
>> Most people want to impress people. The trick is to just keep doing
>> the thing you like doing and get better at it. You're only 30 years
>> old - contrary to what you believe, that doesn't make you an "old man".
>> You've got decades ahead of you, and there's a good chance that you'll
>> (a) find something you feel you excel at, and (b) you'll be good enough
>> at it that people will say "wow" often.
>
> Heh, well, here's to hoping. Sadly, all the things I try seem to be
> things that don't impress anybody. :-(
You seem to have missed the part where I said that you impress me by the
fact that you're willing to take risks and try new things.
>>> Truly, the greatest knowledge is in knowing that you know NOTHING.
>>
>> They say "ignorance is bliss" - and there is a certain amount of truth
>> in that. But ignorance leads to lots of bad outcomes as well, and I
>> for one would rather have a chance at a better outcome than to be
>> blissfully unaware of facts.
>
> Agreed.
>
> (Speaking as somebody who's spent most of their life cluelessly unaware
> of everybody laughing behind my back...)
Hyperbole.
Jim
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Orchid Win7 v1 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> And that, of course, is what the violin is famous for... ;-)
All this talk about violins makes be think of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLgBejh5TLA
--
- Warp
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> More like, failure is something I /expect/, as a matter of course.
> Success isn't something I see very often...
To be successful you need to put in the practise, I learned this a long
time ago. I thought I would just pick up a guitar, learn the mechanics
of how to play it and then be able to play songs. Nope, it doesn't work
like that. The people you see able to play songs on instruments have
practised for a long time, there's no way around it.
Think how much time you've spent on Haskell, I'm sure if you'd spent
that time on the violin instead you'd be pretty expert by now.
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On 22/05/2012 09:22 AM, scott wrote:
>> More like, failure is something I /expect/, as a matter of course.
>> Success isn't something I see very often...
>
> To be successful you need to put in the practise, I learned this a long
> time ago. I thought I would just pick up a guitar, learn the mechanics
> of how to play it and then be able to play songs. Nope, it doesn't work
> like that. The people you see able to play songs on instruments have
> practised for a long time, there's no way around it.
>
> Think how much time you've spent on Haskell, I'm sure if you'd spent
> that time on the violin instead you'd be pretty expert by now.
Well, I've been playing keyboards since I was 9 years old. I mean, I'm
OK, but I'm still not fantastic at it...
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> Well, I've been playing keyboards since I was 9 years old. I mean, I'm
> OK, but I'm still not fantastic at it...
I've also been walking for 30 years, but I'd never win an olympic
walking event. To become fantastic at something you need to practise
properly. This means always pushing yourself to the next level as hard
as you can and not just endlessly repeating what you are already good
at. This is why you have a teacher or a coach to help you. And also
why I suck at guitar and keyboard - I spend ages learning one song and
then just play that endlessly, much to the annoyance of everybody else :-)
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