On 03/02/2012 11:54 AM, Bill Pragnell wrote:
> Invisible<voi### [at] devnull>  wrote:
>> Erm... if I can't swim more than a few feet, how am I supposed to do an
>> entire length?
>
> I assumed you were exaggerating. You'd go further than six feet just by kicking
> off from the side!

Well, yes, but that isn't exactly "swimming", is it? Take a run up and 
jump in and you can go further still - right before they throw you out. ;-)

>> (I hear it's quite good non-impact exercise though...)
>
> It's very good. Good cardio, and works many muscle groups at once. Aside from
> drowning or being kicked by fellow swimmers, it's also very difficult to injure
> oneself :)

Yeah, aside from the whole "being completely surrounded by an efficient 
asphyxiant", it's really safe. :-P

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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> >    I recommend a 7-10 km route.

> At school one time, they took us on a 5 mile walk. It took us over 8 
> hours to complete that. (5 miles is, what, 8 km?) I think this might be 
> a bit extreme.

  It's not extreme at all. A walking speed of 5 km/h isn't even very fast.
Making 7 km in 1 hour is not only possible even for a slightly less fit
person (at least after a while), it's quite an optimal amount.

  You won't get fit by walking a quarter mile. (Nor if you walk significantly
less than an hour every day, nor if you don't get sweaty and with a raised
heart rate.)

> > Start walking it at a relatively fast pace.

> I always find that makes my shins hurt. (Which is odd, considering that 
> there's no muscle there...) Perhaps I'm doing it wrong.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shin_splints

  It can be alleviated with proper shoes and walking on proper terrain.
Other than that, there's no easy solution, but usually it gets better
when you get fitter.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> 3) Go swimming. Buy a book on "Total Immersion" swimming, and learn to swim 
> properly. Then swim several times a week until you can do 30 laps without 
> stopping.

  The proper swimming technique is absolutely crucial.

  If your technique sucks (which it does for most people who haven't been
taught, or taught themselves from a competent source, the proper technique)
you'll lucky if you can swim 25 meters in one go, especially if you are
unfit. With the proper technique, however, even a very unfit person can
swim 2 km in one go with ease. (Personal experience.)

  (The above is true only for warm indoor swimming pools of course. Swimming
in a cold lake requires at least 10 times as much effort even with the
proper technique. It's a real killer.)

  Swimming is an excellent form of exercise, but its downside is that it
does not stress your bones at all. Regular exercise that stresses your bones
is important to prevent many old-age diseases like osteoporosis.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> >> Any other suggestions?
> >
> > Usualy, about 20 to 30 minutes per day of moderate effort will improve
> > your stamina.

> Right. So moderate exercise for longish duration then?

  You are already slacking off, do you see? That "20 to 30" minutes is
immediately sounding a lot more tempting than the 1 hour I suggested.
That's the path to failure, I tell you...

  (I'm not saying 20 minutes a day isn't enough to raise your fitness.
However, in my experience it's not efficient enough if you want relatively
fast and good results.)

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Le 03/02/2012 19:33, Warp nous fit lire :
> Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>>>> Any other suggestions?
>>>
>>> Usualy, about 20 to 30 minutes per day of moderate effort will improve
>>> your stamina.
> 
>> Right. So moderate exercise for longish duration then?
> 
>   You are already slacking off, do you see? That "20 to 30" minutes is
> immediately sounding a lot more tempting than the 1 hour I suggested.
> That's the path to failure, I tell you...
> 
>   (I'm not saying 20 minutes a day isn't enough to raise your fitness.
> However, in my experience it's not efficient enough if you want relatively
> fast and good results.)
> 
The key to exercise is:
rather short daily than long weekly.

3 times 40 minutes per week is better than 3 hours once a week.
(if you want some impact on weight, you need a session of at least 40
minutes, otherwise you are running on free sugar instead of fat)

I know that, but fails to practice it.

PS: you should choose if you want to work on the fast or long lasting
muscles.

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Le_Forgeron <jgr### [at] freefr> wrote:
> The key to exercise is:
> rather short daily than long weekly.

> 3 times 40 minutes per week is better than 3 hours once a week.
> (if you want some impact on weight, you need a session of at least 40
> minutes, otherwise you are running on free sugar instead of fat)

  True, but 3 times a week is not enough if you want to see some real
improvement.

  About 3 times a week is good if you are already very fit, and simply
want to maintain that fitness. However, if what you want is to *get* fit,
it won't be enough. (Or, at the very least, it will be very slow.)

  If you want some serious improvement, it's better to have an hour of
cardiovascular exercise *at least* 5 times a week, preferaby 6. (It's
good to have at least one day of rest per week. If nothing else,
judeo-christianity got at least that right.)

  It's a mistake to exercise too little, too infrequently and/or
improperly (from a cardiovascular perspective; for example walking
too slowly so that you don't sweat, or thinking that leisurely riding
a bike on flat terrain counts as exercise).

  Of course this doesn't mean you have to kill yourself. The exercise
doesn't have to be extremely tiring. A good rule of thumb is if you
sweat, your pulse fastens and you have to slightly breath more heavily,
but you are still able to talk without much effort. (This way you'll be
able to get through the entire hour, which, as said many times, is
important.)

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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On 2/3/2012 1:35, Invisible wrote:
> Or rather, I can't swim more than about 6 feet or so without stopping due to
> exhaustion.

Neither could I, until I learned how. Read the book, try it out, and in 2 
weeks worth of swimming every day, you'll swim several laps without a problem.


-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   People tell me I am the counter-example.

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>>>     I recommend a 7-10 km route.
>
>> At school one time, they took us on a 5 mile walk. It took us over 8
>> hours to complete that. (5 miles is, what, 8 km?) I think this might be
>> a bit extreme.
>
>    It's not extreme at all. A walking speed of 5 km/h isn't even very fast.
> Making 7 km in 1 hour is not only possible even for a slightly less fit
> person (at least after a while), it's quite an optimal amount.

OK, well I guess there's only one way to find out.

>    You won't get fit by walking a quarter mile.

Well, that seems true enough...

>>> Start walking it at a relatively fast pace.
>
>> I always find that makes my shins hurt. (Which is odd, considering that
>> there's no muscle there...) Perhaps I'm doing it wrong.
>
>    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shin_splints
>
>    It can be alleviated with proper shoes and walking on proper terrain.
> Other than that, there's no easy solution, but usually it gets better
> when you get fitter.

OK.

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On 03/02/2012 20:07, Warp wrote:
> Le_Forgeron<jgr### [at] freefr>  wrote:
>> The key to exercise is:
>> rather short daily than long weekly.

>    True, but 3 times a week is not enough if you want to see some real
> improvement.

>    If you want some serious improvement, it's better to have an hour of
> cardiovascular exercise *at least* 5 times a week, preferaby 6. (It's
> good to have at least one day of rest per week. If nothing else,
> judeo-christianity got at least that right.)

>    Of course this doesn't mean you have to kill yourself. The exercise
> doesn't have to be extremely tiring. A good rule of thumb is if you
> sweat, your pulse fastens and you have to slightly breath more heavily,
> but you are still able to talk without much effort. (This way you'll be
> able to get through the entire hour, which, as said many times, is
> important.)

This gets to the nub of what I'm talking about: Whether it's better to 
have a short high-intensity burst, or a long lower-intensity slog. How 
hard exactly do you need to push? How long do you keep going before 
enough is enough? When do you rest, and when do you keep going?

I don't want to be so cripled that I can't walk for a week - but on the 
other hand, I do want to achieve some kind of progress.

My dance partner seems to think the answer is just to dance as hard as 
possible, for as long as possible, with as little rest as possible. She 
says to dance until you can't take any more, rest, and then start again 
before you've completely recovered. "It's all about recovery time."

Then I discovered that Stack Overflow has a sister site that deals with 
fitness. I asked those guys, and WOAH... They're talking abou complex 
programs and exercise plans and building up to being able to lift 1.5 
your own body weight and doing sprint exercises and... I think perhaps 
these people don't realise that some people's lives don't recolve 
/entirely/ around fitness. :-P

That said, the picture I seem to be getting is that if I can just spend 
more time per day in motion, hard enough to actually get my heart rate 
up, and keep it there for as long as possible, that ought to do it. The 
key now is to adjust my schedule so that I actually /do/ this for more 
than three days...

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On 2/3/2012 1:58, Invisible wrote:
> I always find that makes my shins hurt. (Which is odd, considering that
> there's no muscle there...) Perhaps I'm doing it wrong. Or maybe my office
> shoes just aren't very good for walking in.

Don't walk in office shoes. Buy a pair of walking shoes.

Also, you probably have flat feet.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   People tell me I am the counter-example.

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