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OK, so once again I've been looking at this:
http://www.mezzoblue.com/zengarden/alldesigns/
I still don't get how this is actually possible - for two reasons.
First of all, I'm astonished that you can actually perform radical
layout transformations like this just using CSS. It boggles my mind that
this is even theoretically possible. I have literally no idea how it's
possible to do complex graphical work like that and have all the bits
actually line up. I shudder to think how hard it would be to code all
this up.
Second, how in the name of goodness can a human being look at a blank
screen and come up with something as cool as some of these designs? How
is it possible?! How do you just /create/ ideas out of nothingness like
that? I don't understand how it's possible.
It would be nice if I could walk away saying I've found inspiration for
how I can design things to look better in future. But almost all of the
really good designs feature impossible elements.
- Many designs have photographs of cinematic locations, exotic flora and
fauna, historic artefacts or beautiful female models. Normal people
cannot obtain such things.
- Lots of designs have astonishingly elaborate calligraphy. Again, not
something that normal humans can do.
- Some designs feature hand-drawn artwork. Almost nobody can draw as
nicely as this.
- Many of the designs feature texturing and effects which I cannot
imagine any way of ever constructing. How on Earth can you take a
photograph of some grass and then loop it seamlessly? How can you make
tea stains or splintered edges using just computer software? How do you
fake the texture of wet paper? It all seems so impossible...
I suppose we can sum all this up as "I really suck at graphic design". :-(
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Invisible escreveu:
> OK, so once again I've been looking at this:
>
> http://www.mezzoblue.com/zengarden/alldesigns/
>
> I still don't get how this is actually possible - for two reasons.
There's only one reason: you enjoy being surprised at how people
overcome limitations and work out a way to make the impossible possible
instead of crying that it is not possible. :)
> First of all, I'm astonished that you can actually perform radical
> layout transformations like this just using CSS. It boggles my mind that
> this is even theoretically possible.
RTFineM, specially the parts on flow layout.
> Second, how in the name of goodness can a human being look at a blank
> screen and come up with something as cool as some of these designs?
there's nothing better than a blank screen to let imagination flow.
> How
> is it possible?! How do you just /create/ ideas out of nothingness like
> that? I don't understand how it's possible.
Fiat Lux. :)
> - Many designs have photographs of cinematic locations, exotic flora and
> fauna, historic artefacts or beautiful female models. Normal people
> cannot obtain such things.
Then they either buy from stock picture sets or have more luck than you
on vacations.
> - Lots of designs have astonishingly elaborate calligraphy. Again, not
> something that normal humans can do.
They are called calligraphers.
> - Some designs feature hand-drawn artwork. Almost nobody can draw as
> nicely as this.
They are called painters and pencilers. Check out vast amounts of such
gorgeous works from the best in the industry here:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=137
It should be noted that technology certainly helped here in that old
painters had only simple brushes at their disposal, while today you have
textured brushes, clone brushes, and many layers of painting separate
scene elements.
> - How on Earth can you take a
> photograph of some grass and then loop it seamlessly?
You use some seamless filter in your picture editor of choice.
> How can you make
> tea stains or splintered edges using just computer software?
It's again a filter building up on some selection, randomly disturbing
it's edges and then filling it.
> How do you
> fake the texture of wet paper? It all seems so impossible...
You look at a huge bulk of metal flying and say it is impossible.
Surely some optics illusion.
> I suppose we can sum all this up as "I really suck at graphic design". :-(
Like most of us programmers. That's why web design should be in the
hands of designers, not programmers. They come up with some cool
design, you code the needed CSS. ;)
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Am 29.11.2011 16:46, schrieb Invisible:
> It would be nice if I could walk away saying I've found inspiration for
> how I can design things to look better in future. But almost all of the
> really good designs feature impossible elements.
>
> - Many designs have photographs of cinematic locations, exotic flora and
> fauna, historic artefacts or beautiful female models. Normal people
> cannot obtain such things.
Oh really?
You've obviously never visited services like http://www.fotolia.com then.
Similar services exist for hand-drawn art, and also - I would guess -
for calligraphy.
> ...
>
> I suppose we can sum all this up as "I really suck at graphic design". :-(
Yes, apparently :-P
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On 11/29/2011 7:46, Invisible wrote:
> - Many designs have photographs of cinematic locations, exotic flora and
> fauna, historic artefacts or beautiful female models. Normal people cannot
> obtain such things.
Google for creative commons images, or stock photography. Pay someone to
take a specific photo if you want. Some people do this for a living.
> - Lots of designs have astonishingly elaborate calligraphy. Again, not
> something that normal humans can do.
It takes a lot of practice.
> - Some designs feature hand-drawn artwork. Almost nobody can draw as nicely
> as this.
"Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" is said to be a very good book. I
never managed to find the time to follow the instructions to learn this, but
it's something that you can learn the mechanics of if properly taught.
Basically, you need someone who knows what you're actually doing wrong to
teach you, rather than someone who only knows how to do it right.
> - Many of the designs feature texturing and effects which I cannot imagine
> any way of ever constructing. How on Earth can you take a photograph of some
> grass and then loop it seamlessly?
It's not hard. I have a bunch of things like that. Look up "seamless texture
tutorial." I have a script that does the mechanical parts, if you like.
http://darren.s3.amazonaws.com/Seamless/album/index.html
It just takes a bit of practice, watching out for good opportunities for
pictures, figuring out which pictures would make good textures, and then
smoothing it out. These are all textures from the video game I'm
sorta-kinda-still working on.
> How can you make tea stains or splintered
> edges using just computer software?
Oh come now.
> How do you fake the texture of wet
> paper? It all seems so impossible...
Oh *really* come now. :-) This is povray.off-topic, you know. ;-)
> I suppose we can sum all this up as "I really suck at graphic design". :-(
That's possible too. It takes practice, is all. Not that I'm any good at it,
but I'm a lot better than I used to be.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
People tell me I am the counter-example.
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>> - Many designs have photographs of cinematic locations, exotic flora and
>> fauna, historic artefacts or beautiful female models. Normal people
>> cannot obtain such things.
>
> Oh really?
>
> You've obviously never visited services like http://www.fotolia.com then.
Well no - I can't afford such things. I mean, sure, if some big
corporation is paying, then you can afford to buy artwork. But if it's
just you, it's not really feasible.
> Similar services exist for hand-drawn art, and also - I would guess -
> for calligraphy.
See above.
>> I suppose we can sum all this up as "I really suck at graphic design".
>> :-(
>
> Yes, apparently :-P
...and the list of things I suck at gets slightly longer... :'{
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On 29/11/2011 05:05 PM, Darren New wrote:
> On 11/29/2011 7:46, Invisible wrote:
>> - Many designs have photographs of cinematic locations, exotic flora and
>> fauna, historic artefacts or beautiful female models. Normal people
>> cannot
>> obtain such things.
>
> Google for creative commons images, or stock photography. Pay someone to
> take a specific photo if you want. Some people do this for a living.
Sure. But it's damned expensive. Would you really do that just to enter
a little competition for fun?
>> - Lots of designs have astonishingly elaborate calligraphy. Again, not
>> something that normal humans can do.
>
> It takes a lot of practice.
Indeed. It's a skill few people have.
>> - Some designs feature hand-drawn artwork. Almost nobody can draw as
>> nicely as this.
>
> "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" is said to be a very good book.
I own it. It didn't really help.
>> How on Earth can you take a photograph of some
>> grass and then loop it seamlessly?
>
> It's not hard. I have a bunch of things like that. Look up "seamless
> texture tutorial." I have a script that does the mechanical parts, if
> you like.
I can't figure out how it's even possible in theory.
> http://darren.s3.amazonaws.com/Seamless/album/index.html
Seemless?
>> How can you make tea stains or splintered
>> edges using just computer software?
>
> Oh come now.
I gather this is called a "handwaving argument".
>> How do you fake the texture of wet paper? It all seems so impossible...
>
> Oh *really* come now. :-) This is povray.off-topic, you know. ;-)
And presumably most people here have spent enough time failing to fake
it to realise that it's Really Hard.
>> I suppose we can sum all this up as "I really suck at graphic design".
>> :-(
>
> That's possible too. It takes practice, is all. Not that I'm any good at
> it, but I'm a lot better than I used to be.
There must be some kind of trick to it. It's like trying to write a
compiler in BBC BASIC. It seems so impossible, you wonder how anybody
can write a compiler. And they can, and that's because they don't use
BBC BASIC. :-P
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Am 29.11.2011 21:34, schrieb Orchid XP v8:
>>> - Many designs have photographs of cinematic locations, exotic flora and
>>> fauna, historic artefacts or beautiful female models. Normal people
>>> cannot obtain such things.
>>
>> Oh really?
>>
>> You've obviously never visited services like http://www.fotolia.com then.
>
> Well no - I can't afford such things. I mean, sure, if some big
> corporation is paying, then you can afford to buy artwork. But if it's
> just you, it's not really feasible.
Um... what? Did you even have a look at the prices? Of course, if you
change your mind about your home page design every other week, things
might become a bit costly after all ;-)
Note that they make their images available (at low quality) without
payment as a "tryout", so that you can toy around and experiment with
the design before you settle for anything to pay for.
If you really want your homepage to look good, I guess some $30 isn't
such a huge investment (heck, it's just half a hyped computer game),
which at this particular site can buy you e.g. one image at a resolution
of 1600x1200 for the background, plus some 6-20 additional pieces of
decorative artwork at resolutions of 400x300 to 800x600. (Note that for
your website to look good, you want a consistent layout, so you don't
need a gazillion of different backgrounds.)
>>> I suppose we can sum all this up as "I really suck at graphic design".
>>> :-(
>>
>> Yes, apparently :-P
>
> ...and the list of things I suck at gets slightly longer... :'{
Hm, let's see what I suck at...
- Basketball, soccer, hockey, handball, boxing, and plenty other contact
sports too numerous to mention; as well as running, jumping, throwing
(ball, discus, spear, whatever), or any other kind of athletics; skiing,
skating, swimming, golfing; bowling, tennis, squash; boxing, karate,
judo, or any martial arts you could name; I actually even suck at the
few types of sports I do like, compared with people who make a living of
it or even just do it as their primary hobby.
- Playing a church organ, saxophone, violin, flute, and enough other
instruments to fill an orchestra or two...
- Dancing rock & roll, foxtrot, tango, and actually any dance you name
except maybe the simplest of waltz...
- Sales & purchase, or anything else that requires trying to make a good
deal without admitting it.
- Quantum mechanics, string theory, cosmology, statistics and plenty of
other maths & physics stuff, even though I'm pretty interested in it.
- Painting with oil, acrylic, aquarell or water colors; sculpting;
depicting humans or animals; cubism, expressionism, impressionism,
pointillism, surrealism, and probably any other style except naive.
- Linux system administration; function-oriented software development;
web design & programming.
- Dog, cat or bird breeding; horse riding; collecting stamps, coins,
fossils, minerals or butterflies; gardening; ham radio operation;
sailing; gliding; car tuning; hiking; free climbing; archery; wild game
hunting; experimental archaeology; ...
- Heart surgery; metallurgy; meteorology; architecture; bricklaying,
welding; ...
Thinking about it, I guess I suck at more than 99% of all recreational,
professional or other activities in existence. And I guess that actually
everyone on earth does.
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Am 29.11.2011 21:39, schrieb Orchid XP v8:
> On 29/11/2011 05:05 PM, Darren New wrote:
>> On 11/29/2011 7:46, Invisible wrote:
>>> I suppose we can sum all this up as "I really suck at graphic design".
>>> :-(
>>
>> That's possible too. It takes practice, is all. Not that I'm any good at
>> it, but I'm a lot better than I used to be.
>
> There must be some kind of trick to it. It's like trying to write a
> compiler in BBC BASIC. It seems so impossible, you wonder how anybody
> can write a compiler. And they can, and that's because they don't use
> BBC BASIC. :-P
Indeed. For instance, they use more than just old CSS1.
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On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 23:04:49 +0100, clipka wrote:
> Thinking about it, I guess I suck at more than 99% of all recreational,
> professional or other activities in existence. And I guess that actually
> everyone on earth does.
I think it's fair to say that most people suck at most things - and
focusing on what one sucks at isn't a very constructive way to live life.
(Which I think is your point here <g>)
Jim
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Le 2011-11-29 15:39, Orchid XP v8 a écrit :
> On 29/11/2011 05:05 PM, Darren New wrote:
>> On 11/29/2011 7:46, Invisible wrote:
>>> - Many designs have photographs of cinematic locations, exotic flora and
>>> fauna, historic artefacts or beautiful female models. Normal people
>>> cannot
>>> obtain such things.
>>
>> Google for creative commons images, or stock photography. Pay someone to
>> take a specific photo if you want. Some people do this for a living.
>
> Sure. But it's damned expensive. Would you really do that just to enter
> a little competition for fun?
>
It's not like you trained week after week after week to enter a dance
competition, right? I mean, who would do that for fun? ;)
Alternately, you can browser image hosting sites and look for images
which have licencing terms that meet your needs. Or browse through your
"My Pictures" folder. Most people will have something interesting in there.
>>> - Lots of designs have astonishingly elaborate calligraphy. Again, not
>>> something that normal humans can do.
>>
>> It takes a lot of practice.
>
> Indeed. It's a skill few people have.
>
Yet, strangley enough, most people who make a living out of it are
rather good at it. It's almost as if there was some sort of
relationship between the two!
--
/*Francois Labreque*/#local a=x+y;#local b=x+a;#local c=a+b;#macro P(F//
/* flabreque */L)polygon{5,F,F+z,L+z,L,F pigment{rgb 9}}#end union
/* @ */{P(0,a)P(a,b)P(b,c)P(2*a,2*b)P(2*b,b+c)P(b+c,<2,3>)
/* gmail.com */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }
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