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On 10/26/2011 23:06, Saul Luizaga wrote:
> Well all the recollection of testimonials, scientific testing of samples
> taken on sites and ufologist analysis,
Here's the thing. You call people who believe in ufo's and study them
believing them to be alien space ships "ufologists". However, there are
hundreds of times as many people who study UFOs and come to the conclusion
that they are mundane.
It's like seeing 1000's of fakes scammed "crying statue" and "bleeding
painting" type religious miracles, and listening only to the people who
think they're probably all true.
I.e., by not calling (say) air force investigators who come to the
conclusion that those lights are actually russian fighter jets "ufologists",
you are of course amplifying how much evidence you think they have.
> they having normal jobs, so I assume you don't hire crazy people
We have people here who believe the universe is a dream, who believe
Mohammad flew into the air on a flying horse, who believe Jesus is an outer
space alien, who believe that space aliens came millions of years ago to get
sealed into a volcano to watch movies, and who believe people are made out
of dust magicked to life. Yet these are all perfectly sane people, other
than their religious convictions, holding normal jobs.
> so I think they reasoning is sound,
This is argument from authority. "They seem like nice people, so they must
be right." That isn't how it works.
> Ufologists are far more scientific than you might think.
I think you don't understand how science works. :-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
People tell me I am the counter-example.
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On 10/26/2011 21:21, Jim Henderson wrote:
> Interesting - but what was the case about?
I don't remember. Something where believing in UFOs was relevant. Maybe
something like an air force pilot in trouble for having leaked classified
information by telling someone where he was when he saw space ships or
something?
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
People tell me I am the counter-example.
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On 10/26/2011 23:26, Saul Luizaga wrote:
> when you haven't even see much evidence of the series or other ufologists
> research, you are referencing to some bad experiences you had in the past,
> with an obvious bias to avoid what I tried to show you.
"You disagree with me, so you must be delusional or you just don't
understand yet." You don't believe in Jesus because you just haven't
understood the Bible. Nobody disagrees with Objectivism who doesn't have
misconceptions about what it says.
A classic meme-protection technique. Learn to recognize it in yourself and
others, and you'll have a more open mind.
For all your complaints along this line, you seem closed to the possibility
that people here *have* looked at what your "ufologists" have said and come
to the conclusion that they're incorrect.
> That is your opinion not reality, is also reality that you like science a
> lot and you're not willing to see things any other way with the same
> attitude: "Give me facts or give me death!", that's what I meant.
And what's wrong with saying "you're making shit up, please provide a scrap
of evidence that you might be right"?
> but OK you don't want to have anything to do with UFO/ghost/etc I respect
> your opinion.
So what does alien space ships have to do with ghosts? Other than there's no
actual evidence for either one?
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
People tell me I am the counter-example.
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 02:06:31 -0400, Saul Luizaga wrote:
> Ufologists are far more scientific than you might think.
They're plagued by confirmation bias. I spent a fair amount of time in
my misspent youth reading a lot about UFOs and came to the conclusion
quickly that ALL of it was nothing more than people who wanted to believe
extraterrestrials visit Earth regularly trying to prove that their
beliefs are true.
It's complete bunk.
Jim
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On 27/10/2011 5:43 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> It's complete bunk.
So, say you. Earthling!
--
Regards
Stephen
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 18:16:10 +0100, Stephen wrote:
> On 27/10/2011 5:43 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> It's complete bunk.
>
> So, say you. Earthling!
LOL
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On 27/10/2011 6:47 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 18:16:10 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>
>> On 27/10/2011 5:43 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> It's complete bunk.
>>
>> So, say you. Earthling!
>
> LOL
The old ones are the best ones.
Unless *'The Old Ones'* are really evil.
--
Regards
Stephen
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 19:24:17 +0100, Stephen wrote:
> On 27/10/2011 6:47 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 18:16:10 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> On 27/10/2011 5:43 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>>> It's complete bunk.
>>>
>>> So, say you. Earthling!
>>
>> LOL
>
> The old ones are the best ones.
> Unless *'The Old Ones'* are really evil.
So say we all. :)
Jim
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Darren New <dne### [at] san rrcom> wrote:
> I.e., by not calling (say) air force investigators who come to the
> conclusion that those lights are actually russian fighter jets "ufologists",
> you are of course amplifying how much evidence you think they have.
The military is biased and has their own agenda, and thus naturally they
cannot be trusted! If a member of the military denies that a phenomenon is
an alien spaceship, that's actually convincing evidence that it *was* an
alien spaceship.
(Of course if a member of the military claims that it *was* an alien
spaceship, he is immediately a trustworthy reliable source of inside
information. Only those members of the military who deny it are unreliable.)
--
- Warp
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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> There are those who believe in climate change not because they've applied
> any rigor to it, but they have a "sense" that it's true even though they
> haven't studied it personally. They "take it on faith" that the science/
> scientists who support their point of view have done their homework.
To be fair, in subjects that I understand very little about (if anything
at all) I'm prone to believing the scientific community (especially if it's
widely accepted) a lot more easily than anybody else. The reason is that
I know (at least a bit) how science works and why it's more reliable than
other forms of "investigation". Hence if two differing claims are made
about an obscure subject, I find science's claim more reliable by default.
So far I have had very few disappointments with this (if at all).
All the disappointments have been on the other direction.
> (Incidentally, "UFOs" - are real. I see things in the sky every day that
> I can't identify - so for me, it is a flying object that's
> unidentified. ;) )
As I commented in another post, sometimes we should just accept
colloquialisms as they are, even if they are technically speaking incorrect.
Language changes and fighting against it is not very useful.
--
- Warp
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