On 10/7/2011 7:36 AM, Invisible wrote:
> Outlook is quite nice. Exchange is a hellish nightmare. (Or at least,
> the version I used was. That was a while ago now...)
>
> In fairness, I'm not aware of anything else that does what Outlook and
> Exchange do.
What, install viruses? Sorry, haven't used it myself for some time, so I 
have no clue what "special feature" these are supposed to have. lol

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On 10/7/2011 1:47 AM, Invisible wrote:
>> But then it (unreasonably) pisses me off watching some other people use
>> their computers. Their slow deliberate use of the mouse and context menu
>> makes me want to shove them aside and drive myself. Lord! I'm getting to
>> be a crusty old man. :-)
>
> No, that was already annoying me 20 years ago...
Sigh.. You people are the cause of things like Blender being a damn 
nightmare of hotkeys you have to memorize to do shit, even in the new 
version, instead of a damn toolbar, and controls that are in places that 
make some slight sense. Though.. I suppose it is marginally better than 
K-3D, which seems to use the toolbar to insert animation elements, while 
using a right click menu for the "actual" build functions (with 
identical names)... I mean, how the frak are you supposed to scroll 
through 900 damn menu items to find something, often with some bizarre 
name, instead of using the toolbar to just pick the "bend this" 
function? I seriously wonder some times about the sanity of the people 
that write some of these applications.

Still. For someone that doesn't have enough money to shell out $4,000 in 
software, to get the applications that are the top line out there, I ask 
just one question, "Why they hell isn't there anything that comes even 
'vaguely' close to Rhinoceros?" At least Photoshop has both Gimp, and 
the cheaper, but still not free, but close enough, Paintshop Pro. But, 
you want Nurbs... Good luck finding one that fully supports it, and 
isn't an, "all in one, so we do everything incompletely, and in the most 
confusing way possible", application.

And, somehow, using Wings, just isn't going to be real fun. The only up 
side is, I am looking for one to export to a non-nurbs mesh, and/or 
directly to Collada (or how ever its spelled), because Linden Labs 
"finally" got off their asses and supported mesh imports, instead of the 
nightmare displacement map idiocy they called "sculpties", and everyone 
else called "prim torture". lol

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>> In fairness, I'm not aware of anything else that does what Outlook and
>> Exchange do.

> What, install viruses?

I've heard Word used to do that a lot. I've never seen it actually 
happen with Outlook though.

> Sorry, haven't used it myself for some time, so I
> have no clue what "special feature" these are supposed to have. lol

I've seen plenty of software that gives you a calendar, to-do list, and 
so on. I've seen software that lets you send email via SMTP, and receive 
it via IMAP or POP3. I've seen server software to go on the other end.

But the combination of Outlook and Exchange does far more than that. 
Exchange stores email (and more) in a central database, with online 
backup and restore features, quotas and so forth. Outlook lets you read 
your email directly off the server. You don't have to "download" it as 
you do with normal email protocols. The server database and the client 
database are kept automatically synchronised, without you having to 
manually micro-manage it. You can send an email to somebody else without 
it ever leaving the server. You can get a list of all the servers on the 
server, and you can email somebody just by typing their real name. You 
can request notifications, so you know when somebody has read the email 
you sent them. You can create shared folders, which receive external 
email and multiple people can access it, see which messages have been 
read, etc. You can do shared calendars. You can design a form, email it 
to a bunch of people, and the server will collate the results. You can 
do email processing rules ON THE SERVER, rather than at your particular 
client.

I haven't seen anything else that can do half this stuff.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 09:37:46 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 06/10/2011 11:52 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> I rather have a shopping list.:)
>>
>> And for something like a running total, round numbers are "good
>> enough".
>>
>>
> I do and it is. But knowing what to round and in what direction requires
> a little effort.

Certainly. :)

>> But one of the trends in learning in general is that people tend to not
>> try to remember facts because they can be looked up so easily.  This is
>> analogous to people not being able to do basic arithmetic because of
>> the ubiquity of technology that makes it unnecessary.
>>
>>
> And is that a good trend? If you don't exercise your memory then you run
> the risk of not being able to use it when you need it. It is all very
> well being able to look things up but if you can't remember what it is
> that you want to know.

Well, I didn't say it was a good trend, but it is the way it is.  People 
tend to want 'just in time' information these days, rather than having to 
remember pesky facts.

> Another case is in social interaction. It gives a poor impression if you
> can't remember who the current prime minister or president is but say
> just a minute while I Google that.

Sure, amongst our age classes.  Amongst younger age groups, though, value 
knowing how to find out stuff rather than having to remember it all.  
Good or bad, it is what it is.

>> I'm not saying it's a particularly good thing, but it's the way people
>> tend to behave.
> 
> They also like to sit on a couch and eat potatoes. ;-)

True.  Speaking of which, I need to get some lunch. :)

Jim

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On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 09:25:56 +0100, Invisible wrote:

>>> In Windoze:
>>>
>>> Start>  type calc [enter]
> 
> Actually, I put that on the Quick Launch bar so I can always access it
> quickly.
> 
>> In Linux:
>>
>> In the already running terminal window (on my system, I always have one
>> running), "bc".
> 
> 1. How do you get it so a terminal is always available? (Most distros
> I've seen make the terminal program one of the hardest things to find.

Alt-F2 -> gnome-terminal.

Done.

> It's easy to find Firefox or Evolution or Jabba, but the terminal window
> is usually somewhere under "advanced"... It's almost as if I'm using a
> Microsoft OS!)

It's usually under "system tools", which is appropriate.

> 2. Why type "bc" when you can type "ghci"? ;-)

Because 'bc' actually does something on my system - namely, it starts an 
arbitrary precision calculator. :)

Jim

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On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 09:44:44 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 06/10/2011 11:52 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> In Windoze:
>>> >
>>> >  Start>  type calc [enter]
>> In Linux:
>>
>> In the already running terminal window (on my system, I always have one
>> running), "bc".
> 
> Better than short cuts on the desktop IMO. But then it (unreasonably)
> pisses me off watching some other people use their computers. Their slow
> deliberate use of the mouse and context menu makes me want to shove them
> aside and drive myself. Lord! I'm getting to be a crusty old man. :-)

I know what you mean (about both statements!)

I find myself often trying to drive someone else's computer by using my 
voice.  I tell you, voice control of another person's computer with them 
interpreting is probably one of the more frustrating things to do.

Or when my mom starts reading an error message to me - and after three 
words, I know what the next thing is and what to do next.

Jim

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I'll top post as I'm sure nobody wants to read all that again.

What do you mean?

On 07/10/2011 6:51 PM, Patrick Elliott wrote:
> On 10/7/2011 1:47 AM, Invisible wrote:
>>> But then it (unreasonably) pisses me off watching some other people use
>>> their computers. Their slow deliberate use of the mouse and context menu
>>> makes me want to shove them aside and drive myself. Lord! I'm getting to
>>> be a crusty old man. :-)
>>
>> No, that was already annoying me 20 years ago...
> Sigh.. You people are the cause of things like Blender being a damn
> nightmare of hotkeys you have to memorize to do shit, even in the new
> version, instead of a damn toolbar, and controls that are in places that
> make some slight sense. Though.. I suppose it is marginally better than
> K-3D, which seems to use the toolbar to insert animation elements, while
> using a right click menu for the "actual" build functions (with
> identical names)... I mean, how the frak are you supposed to scroll
> through 900 damn menu items to find something, often with some bizarre
> name, instead of using the toolbar to just pick the "bend this"
> function? I seriously wonder some times about the sanity of the people
> that write some of these applications.
>
> Still. For someone that doesn't have enough money to shell out $4,000 in
> software, to get the applications that are the top line out there, I ask
> just one question, "Why they hell isn't there anything that comes even
> 'vaguely' close to Rhinoceros?" At least Photoshop has both Gimp, and
> the cheaper, but still not free, but close enough, Paintshop Pro. But,
> you want Nurbs... Good luck finding one that fully supports it, and
> isn't an, "all in one, so we do everything incompletely, and in the most
> confusing way possible", application.
>
> And, somehow, using Wings, just isn't going to be real fun. The only up
> side is, I am looking for one to export to a non-nurbs mesh, and/or
> directly to Collada (or how ever its spelled), because Linden Labs
> "finally" got off their asses and supported mesh imports, instead of the
> nightmare displacement map idiocy they called "sculpties", and everyone
> else called "prim torture". lol


-- 
Regards
     Stephen

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On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 10:25:55 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 06/10/2011 11:54 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> Ye’r not biased by any chance?
>> Oh, yes, I'm biased, and I don't try to hide it.:)
>>
>>
> I know, I know. :-)

Well, I know how it is when age starts creeping in.  My dad always said 
that memory was the second thing to go. (Can't remember if I've told that 
one here before or not - but I probably have <g>)

>>> >  Actually I can’t be bothered to learn another OS and like Andrew
>>> >  I’ve got lots of s/ware that works on Windoze.
>> Whereas I can't be bothered to use Windows for the vast majority of
>> what I use a computer for these days, and I don't have a collection of
>> Windows software holding me back.<gd&rvvvf>
>>
> That is another point. I need the M$ Office Suite for work and
> complained bitterly when they changed to Office 2007. Which reminds me
> of the faux quote attributed to Petronius Arbiter.
> 
> "We trained hard... but it seemed that every time we were beginning to
> form up into teams we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life
> that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful
> method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing
> confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization."

Yeah, and that is a good quote, faux or not. :)

>> But my point above was that if you're citing "numlock doesn't behave
>> the way I'm used to" as "another reason to give Linux a miss", it's not
>> really that great of a reason.;)
> 
> It is no reason at all, at all. :-D

Well, exactly. :)

Jim

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On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 09:15:06 +0100, Invisible wrote:

>> Audio certainly is an area that's recognised as being problematic.
> 
> Really? I thought that was Wi-Fi.

Nah, Wi-Fi is pretty easy - either it works or it doesn't.  Either you 
have the firmware necessary or you don't.

Audio is so horribly complex on Linux because there's at least 3 
different systems to use it, and nobody's standardised on one.  OSS.  
Alsa.  PulseAudio.  The standards were all not standardised, so they 
decided to fix the problem by creating ANOTHER STANDARD.

Gah.

Jim

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On Fri, 07 Oct 2011 09:08:25 +0100, Invisible wrote:

>>>> Mine never turns off on its own.  Just switched between several VTs
>>>> and my X session, the state didn't change at all.
>>>
>>> OK, well I guess it varies by distro then. This was, IIRC, Debian
>>> "potato".
>>
>> Possible.  At the very least, there are ways to configure it to not do
>> what you're seeing, but not knowing Debian, I couldn't tell you how on
>> that distribution.
> 
> Quite. As I recall, stopping the shell doing this involved editing
> ~/.bashrc and setting an environment variable or something like that.

An environment variable on its own wouldn't do anything.  It's got to be 
used by something, obviously. :)

>>>> "in the shell" - do you mean on a VT?  Or is it changing when you
>>>> open a term window in X?
>>>
>>> I mean in the text-mode screen that appears before you tell X Windows
>>> to start up. (I didn't have it configured to run at startup.)
>>
>> That's a "virtual terminal" or VT.  aka the "Console".
> 
> Oh, right. I thought that refers only to when you run an X application
> that emulates a terminal in a window.

That's technically called a 'pseudoterminal' - pts.  "man pts" is 
interesting reading, if you like that sort of thing.

Jim

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