>> Uh-huh. And you understand that your monitor only physically draws 60 
>> frames each second anyway, right?
> 
> Not if you still have a CRT, my old CRT used to go up to 120 Hz and man 
> that looked smoooooooth if you could get a game running at 120 Hz (and 
> yes, you can tell the difference between 60 and 120 Hz refresh, IIRC 
> above about 85 Hz you don't notice any difference).

Well let me put it this way: *I* can't tell the difference between 50 
Hz, 60 Hz and 75 Hz. They all look the same to me.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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>> The fact of the matter is, if you were on an island surrounded by 
>> highly trained mercinaries and you were armed only with a pistol, you 
>> wouldn't last five seconds.
> 
> But you're a highly trained military type guy too, and you're taking 
> them all by surprise.  Besides, it's not like they have an army 
> anywhere, there's rarely more than a dozen of them in one area or more 
> than a couple standing next to each other.  And once you've shot one of 
> them, you have the same gun they do ;-)

I double you'd last long against sniper rifles and rocket launchers. ;-)

Actually, I'm waiting for the day when computer games will portray this 
realistically. It's like HL2:DM. 12 guys run around inside a crumbling 
dungeon hurling grenades and using rocket launchers. And after 20 
minutes, the map itself just has a few bullet holes. Obviously, if you 
did this in a *real* crumbling dungeon, there would be walls missing and 
so forth! But no game seems to have managed to do this yet... Presumably 
having a completely deformable map is just too much of a technical 
challenge right now.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Invisible wrote:
>>> Uh-huh. And you understand that your monitor only physically draws 60 
>>> frames each second anyway, right?
>>
>> Not if you still have a CRT, my old CRT used to go up to 120 Hz and 
>> man that looked smoooooooth if you could get a game running at 120 Hz 
>> (and yes, you can tell the difference between 60 and 120 Hz refresh, 
>> IIRC above about 85 Hz you don't notice any difference).
> 
> Well let me put it this way: *I* can't tell the difference between 50 
> Hz, 60 Hz and 75 Hz. They all look the same to me.
> 

I always kept my CRTs running at above 60Hz. For some reason, staring at 
60Hz or lower just makes me queezy.

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Invisible wrote:
>>> I get around 10 to 18 fps which is 'playable'.
>>
>> o_O
> 
> You've never played Quake II on a Pentium 233 MHz with 16 MB RAM and no 
> 3D hardware, have you?

No, but only because I never *had* a Pentium 233 :)  I went straight 
form a Pentium 166 to an AMD K6-2 300 (or 350, can't remember now).

>> Anything less than 30 consistently gives me rather bad headaches.  I 
>> try to keep things running at 50+, though (obviously, 75+ is best, but 
>> not feasible for me on modern games).
> 
> Uh-huh. And you understand that your monitor only physically draws 60 
> frames each second anyway, right?

Actually, it draws 75 per second :)

Besides, this is something I've found I'm more sensitive to as I age. 
Sure, I *used* to play all those old games that ran at, like, 20-30fps, 
but I can't *anymore*.

...Chambers

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Invisible wrote:
> Actually, I'm waiting for the day when computer games will portray this 
> realistically. It's like HL2:DM. 12 guys run around inside a crumbling 
> dungeon hurling grenades and using rocket launchers. And after 20 
> minutes, the map itself just has a few bullet holes. Obviously, if you 
> did this in a *real* crumbling dungeon, there would be walls missing and 
> so forth! But no game seems to have managed to do this yet... Presumably 
> having a completely deformable map is just too much of a technical 
> challenge right now.

Wasn't there one a few years ago, Red Storm or something like that?  It 
was, IIRC, made by a group of Russion grad students, and the story was 
about miners on Mars revolting.

Completely deformable maps.  The demo let you blow a house to pieces, 
and make a larger and larger crater as you threw rockets at it :)

...Chambers

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>> Actually, I'm waiting for the day when computer games will portray 
>> this realistically. It's like HL2:DM. 12 guys run around inside a 
>> crumbling dungeon hurling grenades and using rocket launchers. And 
>> after 20 minutes, the map itself just has a few bullet holes. 
>> Obviously, if you did this in a *real* crumbling dungeon, there would 
>> be walls missing and so forth! But no game seems to have managed to do 
>> this yet... Presumably having a completely deformable map is just too 
>> much of a technical challenge right now.
> 
> Wasn't there one a few years ago, Red Storm or something like that?  It 
> was, IIRC, made by a group of Russion grad students, and the story was 
> about miners on Mars revolting.
> 
> Completely deformable maps.  The demo let you blow a house to pieces, 
> and make a larger and larger crater as you threw rockets at it :)

Actually, thinking about it... LEMINGS!!

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Invisible wrote:
> 12 guys run around inside a crumbling
> dungeon hurling grenades and using rocket launchers. And after 20 
> minutes, the map itself just has a few bullet holes.

http://hlcomic.com/index.php?date=2006-07-17

But nobody would play a realistic video game. Most people don't have the 
training to play a realistic video game. And you'd need a whole bunch of 
people together to do it properly.  (Think Quake II, where the first 
thing that happens is you're cut off from all your teammates, and you go 
the whole rest of the game without meeting anyone else.)

A realistic video game is "Boom! Headshot!  Game over, and you don't get 
to play again."

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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Darren New wrote:
> Invisible wrote:
>> 12 guys run around inside a crumbling
>> dungeon hurling grenades and using rocket launchers. And after 20 
>> minutes, the map itself just has a few bullet holes.
> 
> http://hlcomic.com/index.php?date=2006-07-17
> 
> But nobody would play a realistic video game. Most people don't have the 
> training to play a realistic video game. And you'd need a whole bunch of 
> people together to do it properly.  (Think Quake II, where the first 
> thing that happens is you're cut off from all your teammates, and you go 
> the whole rest of the game without meeting anyone else.)
> 
> A realistic video game is "Boom! Headshot!  Game over, and you don't get 
> to play again."

You just described Insurgency.

You get to play again, but other than that it's just like a real war - 
i.e., not fun. It takes hours to walk anywhere. You can only run for a 
few seconds before you get breathless. When you're breathless, your aim 
is even more horrible than usual. There is no crosshair on the screen. 
You *can* look down the barrel of the gun, but then you can't see 
anything around you. And the gun dances all over the place as soon as 
you pull the trigger.

Most importantly, you wander around for hours not seeing any other 
players. You can *hear* gunshots coming from somewhere, but there are no 
people. At some point, as you walk towards the sounds of gunfire, you 
will suddenly drop dead for no apparent reason. The problem is that 4.8 
miles away, there's a sniper hidden behind some bushes. (This is 
probably beyond the max draw distance of the game engine.)

In short, it's a game that must have taken a vast amount of time and 
effort to develop (it's a community mod, not a commercial game), but 
it's completely boring and pointless. You just walk around until you 
drop dead. You won't even *see* another player to actually shoot at. 
You'll just drop dead suddenly.

It *does* have one redeeming feature though: If you play as US Marines, 
when you reload this gaunt voice mumbles "changing mags". If you play as 
the Iraqui Insurgents, an Arabic voice yells "rrrrrreloading!"

Funniest. Thing. Ever!

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Chambers wrote:
> Invisible wrote:
>> Actually, I'm waiting for the day when computer games will portray 
>> this realistically. It's like HL2:DM. 12 guys run around inside a 
>> crumbling dungeon hurling grenades and using rocket launchers. And 
>> after 20 minutes, the map itself just has a few bullet holes. 
>> Obviously, if you did this in a *real* crumbling dungeon, there would 
>> be walls missing and so forth! But no game seems to have managed to do 
>> this yet... Presumably having a completely deformable map is just too 
>> much of a technical challenge right now.
> 
> Wasn't there one a few years ago, Red Storm or something like that?  It 
> was, IIRC, made by a group of Russion grad students, and the story was 
> about miners on Mars revolting.
> 
> Completely deformable maps.  The demo let you blow a house to pieces, 
> and make a larger and larger crater as you threw rockets at it :)
> 
> ...Chambers

I think the game you mean is Red Faction. It wasn't completely 
deformable, though. There were sections of walls that could be blown up, 
parts of a hallway wall could be knocked down with just grenades, others 
would seem to be impervious to everything short of a rocket launcher.

It was a pretty good change to gameplay when it was released. I remember 
a few LAN games when someone would find a new part of the wall that 
could be removed, and gain a sudden advantage.

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Sabrina Kilian wrote:
> Chambers wrote:
>> Wasn't there one a few years ago, Red Storm or something like that?  
>> It was, IIRC, made by a group of Russion grad students, and the story 
>> was about miners on Mars revolting.
>>
>> ...Chambers
> 
> I think the game you mean is Red Faction.

Ah yes, that's the one :)

I never played the retail game, though.  I might have to get around to that.

...Chambers

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