>> All I can say is that IME, as soon as you ask somebody about a job they
>> instantly say "how many years experience do you have?" If you say some
>> number less than 3, suddenly nobody wants to know you. I have no idea
>> what the hell is so special about 3, but what ever. Employers seem
>> completely uninterested in what qualifications you have, only how much
>> experience you have.
> 
> How long have you been where you are now?

Far too long. (At any rate, much longer than 3 years!)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
> I'm just waiting to see how many get the reference. ;-)

I think very few, if any, would have gotten it without my second message.

> Jim


-- 
Eero "Aero" Ahonen
    http://www.zbxt.net
       aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> 
>   Not only that, you have to pay mandatory annual car insurance (good
> thing, I suppose) as well as a mandatory annual car tax (you receive
> nothing in return, it's a *pure* tax for simply *owning* a car, without
> any benefits).

That has been easied, the tax of owning a car also demands the car to be 
marked to be allowed to use in traffic. IE my other summer car is marked 
"not in traffic" atm, so I don't pay taxes nor insurances of it.

>   On the plus side, you'll usually get a fast broadband internet connection
> for a quite moderate price here.

In a city.

-- 
Eero "Aero" Ahonen
    http://www.zbxt.net
       aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid

Post a reply to this message

On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 04:10:57 -0400, John VanSickle <evi### [at] hotmailcom>
wrote:

>
>Finland is regarded here:
>
>   http://www.heritage.org/research/features/index/countries.cfm

Oh comparisons! Here is a site that gives a Global Peace Index. Countries with a
"United" in their names don't do that well :)

http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi/results/comparison/2008/CA-DK-FI-GB-US/

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Stephen <mcavoysAT@aoldotcom> wrote:
> http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi/results/comparison/2008/CA-DK-FI-GB-US/

  The "electoral process" gets a flat 10 in that list. I seriously disagree,
but that's another story.

  (Yes, I know that things are pretty good here in that field compared to
many other countries, especially the so-called "banana republics", but
I wouldn't give Finnish electoral system a full 10. Maybe a 9. There are
details which really grind my gears.)

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

On 6 Jul 2008 06:21:06 -0400, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:

>Stephen <mcavoysAT@aoldotcom> wrote:
>> http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi/results/comparison/2008/CA-DK-FI-GB-US/
>
>  The "electoral process" gets a flat 10 in that list. I seriously disagree,
>but that's another story.
>
>  (Yes, I know that things are pretty good here in that field compared to
>many other countries, especially the so-called "banana republics", but
>I wouldn't give Finnish electoral system a full 10. Maybe a 9. There are
>details which really grind my gears.)

There are so many ways to make comparisons that it sometimes seems meaningless. 
A score of 10 is a bit suspect IMO unless Finland is taken as the standard :)
Life expectancy and Infant mortality are good indicators. I was a bit surprised
that Finland scores 3 on Willingness to fight against the UK and USA's 2.
Initially I only looked at the ranking but looking a bit further at the figures
I see that the UK has 0% for "Number of visitors as % of domestic population" In
2001 there were 22.8 million tourists that travelled to the UK with 11.5 million
visiting London. No wonder it feels so crowded.
I don't trust this site completely but then that's internet rule #1 (in my book)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> Jim Charter <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote:
> 
>>Every week I face classrooms of people who often are turning to cab 
>>driving as a refuge of last resort.  When they find that once again they 
>>have to crack open books and face rote-learning challenges some are 
>>openly discouraged and humiliated, others react with extreme hostility 
>>and defensiveness.
> 
> 
>   What is it with the western culture that makes studying and intellectuality
> a good thing and a shame, all at the same time?
> 
Two replies.

First, the particular point I was trying to make was that some people 
really don't have the 'lights' for it, or possibly, have the ability but 
never acquired the skills. So the situation is very embarrassing for 
them.  For instance, I preach writing things by rote to help memorize 
them.  Suppose writing is an excruitiating and nearly impossible task?

On a different tack, there may some circumstances and people where it 
might be argued that study is really an escape from the world,... 
guiltily so.  In other words at some point in ones development you have 
to cope with the world beyond books.

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
>   There are other things which you should consider more seriously.

I don't need to consider subtleties after *that* show-stopper. ;-)

> For instance, you might not need to fill tax forms ever, but OTOH you'll
> be paying quite a lot *more* taxes than in the US.

I expected that, yes.

>   And do you even know how much gasoline/diesel costs here? An American
> would drop his jaw into the ground if he saw it. Translated to the US
> units, gasoline is about 9.5 dollars/gallon, and diesel is 8.3.

But you have good public transit, yes?  When I've been on vacation in 
Europe for weeks at a time, I never rent a car.  In the USA, it's really 
difficult to live most places without a car, except maybe in the middle 
of a big city.

>   Oh, and cars cost almost double what they cost, for example, in Germany
> because of all the taxes. (In Germany, IIRC, a tax of 16% is put on the
> price of sold cars, while in Finland it's something like 96%.)

That's high. Here it's usually closer to 30% all told on a car.

>   Not only that, you have to pay mandatory annual car insurance (good
> thing, I suppose) as well as a mandatory annual car tax (you receive
> nothing in return, it's a *pure* tax for simply *owning* a car, without
> any benefits).

Same here. Well, I mean, the taxes go towards upkeep of the roads and 
such, but it's not like you directly see the money come back to your 
pocket. California car taxes are exceptionally high because we're so 
"progressive" here. :-)

Heck, you have to pay $100/year if you send in the form that says "I own 
the car, but I'm not going to drive it at all."  And if you change your 
mind and you *do* drive it, you wind up with a huge penalty/interest/etc.

You have to pay $10/month to the water company if you don't want them to 
run pipes to your house because you have (say) a well on your farm or 
something. Never quite understood that one.

>   Own a TV (or, for that matter, any device capable of decoding TV
> signal)? Tax.

Not quite that here, no. But you pay to receive the signal at all in 
most places, by paying the cable company. We never got a TV tax, but 
then we never got government television stations either.

> Own a house? Tax. Own land? Tax. Inherit some money or
> property from a relative? Tax. Win a car abroad and want to bring it
> to Finland? You'll have to pay almost the original price of the car
> in taxes.

Yep, yep, yep, yep. America has all those taxes.  Probably not quite as 
high, but we have em. I think the property tax on my house in California 
is something like $5000 or $6000 a year, around 1% plus "melo roos", 
which is interest on the bonds the local government sold to build 
schools and stuff. (Long story, that.) Plus taxes on water, sewage, 
trash collection, phone service, etc etc etc. Basically, everything has 
sales tax, and all the utility services have taxes on top of that. Phone 
service is a favorite dumping ground for taxes - probably 40% of my 
phone bill each month is 3% tax this, $5 tax that...

Oh, and we have "gift tax."  Someone gives you a million dollars as a 
present? Please give half to the government, thanks.

>   On the plus side, you'll usually get a fast broadband internet connection
> for a quite moderate price here.

And your government doesn't seem to treat citizens like the enemy, as 
well. :-)

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
  Helpful housekeeping hints:
   Check your feather pillows for holes
    before putting them in the washing machine.

Post a reply to this message

On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 12:13:03 +0300, Eero Ahonen wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> 
>> I'm just waiting to see how many get the reference. ;-)
> 
> I think very few, if any, would have gotten it without my second
> message.

I'll be one of the very few, then. ;-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 09:32:40 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>> All I can say is that IME, as soon as you ask somebody about a job
>>> they instantly say "how many years experience do you have?" If you say
>>> some number less than 3, suddenly nobody wants to know you. I have no
>>> idea what the hell is so special about 3, but what ever. Employers
>>> seem completely uninterested in what qualifications you have, only how
>>> much experience you have.
>> 
>> How long have you been where you are now?
> 
> Far too long. (At any rate, much longer than 3 years!)

Then you've got at least 3 years of experience.  So that's something.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 09:05:43 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 6 Jul 2008 01:12:33 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> 
>>On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 20:04:30 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Why is a duck?
>>> 
>>> "Have you considered the possibility," I countered, "that I simply
>>> assumed that you were another drunken, disheveled, ignorant bum? This
>>> city is full of them, you know."
>>
>>LOL, but I don't think I'm disheveled.  Or drunk, for that matter - I
>>can still type.  When I'm drunk, I can't type.
>>
>>That said, there's rum in the freezer; it should probably come out.
>>
> I googled the phrase and the first hit was a short story, that is a line
> from it :)
> When I'm drunk I can delete someone's bug report by mistake instead of
> replying :oops:

:-)

The answer I was always told was "because there are no bones in ice 
cream".

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:
> 
>>   And do you even know how much gasoline/diesel costs here? An American
>> would drop his jaw into the ground if he saw it. Translated to the US
>> units, gasoline is about 9.5 dollars/gallon, and diesel is 8.3.
> 
> But you have good public transit, yes?  When I've been on vacation in 
> Europe for weeks at a time, I never rent a car.  In the USA, it's really 
> difficult to live most places without a car, except maybe in the middle 
> of a big city.

Yes, on few of the "big" cities (Finnish cities are nowhere to claim to 
be big - none of them has even near of million citizens, but in Finnish 
scale they (100+k citizens) are big). You can manage well with public 
transportation on a vacation, but try to work and live a bit off from 
the major courses. My trip to work every morning would take something 
like 9 hours(!), because there is no bus line from my place to the 
motorway (one could assume I'd walk that 7km - with laptop, possibly 
other hardware etc...).

>>   Not only that, you have to pay mandatory annual car insurance (good
>> thing, I suppose) as well as a mandatory annual car tax (you receive
>> nothing in return, it's a *pure* tax for simply *owning* a car, without
>> any benefits).
> 
> Same here. Well, I mean, the taxes go towards upkeep of the roads and 
> such, but it's not like you directly see the money come back to your 
> pocket. California car taxes are exceptionally high because we're so 
> "progressive" here. :-)

I don't remember the exact numbers, but in Finland the country collects 
much more taxes from the traffic than returns there.

> Oh, and we have "gift tax."  Someone gives you a million dollars as a 
> present? Please give half to the government, thanks.

So do we, after some limit (gifts between 0-limit are taxless), but I 
can't remember how much it is.

> And your government doesn't seem to treat citizens like the enemy, as 
> well. :-)

At least as long as you agree with them.

-- 
Eero "Aero" Ahonen
    http://www.zbxt.net
       aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:
>>   Own a TV (or, for that matter, any device capable of decoding TV
>> signal)? Tax.
> 
> Not quite that here, no. But you pay to receive the signal at all in 
> most places, by paying the cable company. We never got a TV tax, but 
> then we never got government television stations either.

	PBS stations don't count as government stations?

-- 
"Apple I" (c) Copyright 1767, Sir Isaac Newton.


                     /\  /\               /\  /
                    /  \/  \ u e e n     /  \/  a w a z
                        >>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
                                    anl

Post a reply to this message

Mueen Nawaz wrote:
>     PBS stations don't count as government stations?

I was thinking about that. As far as I can tell, no. NPR isn't (much) 
funded by the government (any more), and it's really composed of a bunch 
of local radio stations all joining in.  NPR is more like a supplier of 
content than a radio station owner, more like "Visa" than a bank, for 
example.

I don't know how much funding they get these days from the government, 
but I don't think it's enough that I'd call it a "government station".

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
  Helpful housekeeping hints:
   Check your feather pillows for holes
    before putting them in the washing machine.

Post a reply to this message

>  And do you even know how much gasoline/diesel costs here? An American
> would drop his jaw into the ground if he saw it. Translated to the US
> units, gasoline is about 9.5 dollars/gallon, and diesel is 8.3.

We're up to $9/gallon for diesel and $9.50/gallon for petrol here in Germany 
now.

>  Oh, and cars cost almost double what they cost, for example, in Germany
> because of all the taxes. (In Germany, IIRC, a tax of 16% is put on the
> price of sold cars, while in Finland it's something like 96%.)

It went up to 19% here last year, but still small compared to the 96%!  That 
is a bit ridiculous.

>  Not only that, you have to pay mandatory annual car insurance (good
> thing, I suppose)

I wouldn't like to live somewhere without mandatory car insurance, is there 
any civilised country that does not demand that?

> as well as a mandatory annual car tax (you receive
> nothing in return, it's a *pure* tax for simply *owning* a car, without
> any benefits).

In the UK you need to pay the annual "road tax", if you want to drive or 
park your vehicle on the public roads.

>  On the plus side, you'll usually get a fast broadband internet connection
> for a quite moderate price here.

Plus, I assume you also get a lot more holiday per year than is usual in 
USA.  Most countries in Europe seem to have 4-6 weeks holiday per year as 
standard.

Post a reply to this message

scott <sco### [at] laptopcom> wrote:
> >  Oh, and cars cost almost double what they cost, for example, in Germany
> > because of all the taxes. (In Germany, IIRC, a tax of 16% is put on the
> > price of sold cars, while in Finland it's something like 96%.)

> It went up to 19% here last year, but still small compared to the 96%!  That 
> is a bit ridiculous.

  Still not as ridiculous as in Denmark, where it is, AFAIK, 210%...

> > as well as a mandatory annual car tax (you receive
> > nothing in return, it's a *pure* tax for simply *owning* a car, without
> > any benefits).

> In the UK you need to pay the annual "road tax", if you want to drive or 
> park your vehicle on the public roads.

  OTOH I assume that means that if you own 2 cars you don't have to pay
twice?

> >  On the plus side, you'll usually get a fast broadband internet connection
> > for a quite moderate price here.

> Plus, I assume you also get a lot more holiday per year than is usual in 
> USA.  Most countries in Europe seem to have 4-6 weeks holiday per year as 
> standard.

  Yeah, that's quite cool. And moreover, by law you get an increased salary
during your holiday here.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

>  Still not as ridiculous as in Denmark, where it is, AFAIK, 210%...

Hmmm, looking back to when I used to visit Denmark a lot, maybe that 
explains why there were so many old cars on the roads?  So really, a car 
that costs €20k here in Germany, would be more like €40k in Finland, and 
€60k in Denmark.  Wow.

>> In the UK you need to pay the annual "road tax", if you want to drive or
>> park your vehicle on the public roads.
>
>  OTOH I assume that means that if you own 2 cars you don't have to pay
> twice?

Nope, it's per vehicle, not per person, and ranges from £0 up to £400 
depending on how polluting the vehicle is.

Post a reply to this message

scott <sco### [at] laptopcom> wrote:
> >  Still not as ridiculous as in Denmark, where it is, AFAIK, 210%...

> Hmmm, looking back to when I used to visit Denmark a lot, maybe that 
> explains why there were so many old cars on the roads?  So really, a car 
> that costs ¤20k here in Germany, would be more like ¤40k in Finland, and 
> ¤60k in Denmark.  Wow.

  And it's not like you could just go to Germany, buy a car and bring it
to Finland. You'll have to pay the 96% of tax when you bring the car, so
no such luck...

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

>  And it's not like you could just go to Germany, buy a car and bring it
> to Finland. You'll have to pay the 96% of tax when you bring the car, so
> no such luck...

Yeh I guessed as much.

I assume you're allowed foreign registered cars there for a certain amount 
of time, it's 6 months here I think.  You could just replace your car in 
Germany every 6 months, although I'm sure they thought of that already and 
made it illegal.

Post a reply to this message

On 6 Jul 2008 14:09:20 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

>The answer I was always told was "because there are no bones in ice 
>cream".

It is a question (?) that I rediscover every time I hear it. It makes no sense
:)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
>>  Still not as ridiculous as in Denmark, where it is, AFAIK, 210%...
> 
> Hmmm, looking back to when I used to visit Denmark a lot, maybe that 
> explains why there were so many old cars on the roads?  So really, a car 
> that costs €20k here in Germany, would be more like €40k in Finland, and 
> €60k in Denmark.  Wow.
> 

The car manufacturers sell cars cheaper to countries with higher taxes 
to compensate the difference. It doesn't remove the difference, though, 
just makes it a bit smaller.

But a good example: Audi A4 2.0TDI FWD with Business pack and no other 
extra equipment makes ~40k€ here.

-- 
Eero "Aero" Ahonen
    http://www.zbxt.net
       aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
>>  And it's not like you could just go to Germany, buy a car and bring it
>> to Finland. You'll have to pay the 96% of tax when you bring the car, so
>> no such luck...

If the car is used (IIRC 6+months old), you'll get discount from the tax 
and it's not *that* much anymore (it still is much, just not *that* much).

> Yeh I guessed as much.
> 
> I assume you're allowed foreign registered cars there for a certain 
> amount of time, it's 6 months here I think.  You could just replace your 
> car in Germany every 6 months, although I'm sure they thought of that 
> already and made it illegal.
> 

Nnnope, a Finnish person ain't allowed to drive foreign-registered car 
in Finland. It wasn't so long ago when the news had a great story about 
some Estonian guy with a Finnish wife/gf - she moved his Porsche for 10m 
oslt and Finland started to demand them to pay cartax (that 96%) of that 
Porsche.

-- 
Eero "Aero" Ahonen
    http://www.zbxt.net
       aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:00:32 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 6 Jul 2008 14:09:20 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> 
>>The answer I was always told was "because there are no bones in ice
>>cream".
> 
> It is a question (?) that I rediscover every time I hear it. It makes no
> sense :)

That's more or less the point, I think. ;-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On 7 Jul 2008 12:35:31 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

>On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:00:32 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>
>> On 6 Jul 2008 14:09:20 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> 
>>>The answer I was always told was "because there are no bones in ice
>>>cream".
>> 
>> It is a question (?) that I rediscover every time I hear it. It makes no
>> sense :)
>
>That's more or less the point, I think. ;-)
>
What was that? Said goldfish brain. :)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Stephen wrote:
> On 7 Jul 2008 12:35:31 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:00:32 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> On 6 Jul 2008 14:09:20 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The answer I was always told was "because there are no bones in ice
>>>> cream".
>>> It is a question (?) that I rediscover every time I hear it. It makes no
>>> sense :)
>> That's more or less the point, I think. ;-)
>>
> What was that? Said goldfish brain. :)
Reminds me of a riddle my late father used to tell

"Why is it wherefore the mouse doth rotate?"
"Because the higher the fewer; hence the word rhubarb"

I occasionally wish I'd been able to get a hand on _his_ stash :-)

John

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 19:55:03 +0100, Doctor John <joh### [at] homecom> wrote:

>Reminds me of a riddle my late father used to tell
>

I did not know that you were related to Edward Lear. :)

How's the back? 

Job confirmed, leave for the mountains Sunday night.

>I occasionally wish I'd been able to get a hand on _his_ stash :-)

Tut, tut :)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 18:09:30 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 7 Jul 2008 12:35:31 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> 
>>On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:00:32 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> On 6 Jul 2008 14:09:20 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>The answer I was always told was "because there are no bones in ice
>>>>cream".
>>> 
>>> It is a question (?) that I rediscover every time I hear it. It makes
>>> no sense :)
>>
>>That's more or less the point, I think. ;-)
>>
> What was that? Said goldfish brain. :)

Banana?

(There is a story there, maybe I'll share <g>)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On 7 Jul 2008 15:51:50 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:


>> What was that? Said goldfish brain. :)
>
>Banana?
>
>(There is a story there, maybe I'll share <g>)
>
G'wan, g'wan, g'wan :) 
(I like Father Ted)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 20:56:29 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 7 Jul 2008 15:51:50 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> 
> 
>>> What was that? Said goldfish brain. :)
>>
>>Banana?
>>
>>(There is a story there, maybe I'll share <g>)
>>
> G'wan, g'wan, g'wan :)
> (I like Father Ted)

I've got them on DVD, ought to watch them again. :)

At a technical tradeshow with a bunch of friends who take turns manning 
one of the booths, just came out from having breakfast and was carrying a 
banana with me.  One of my friends - Shaun (bloke from your part of the 
world) - had been making jokes about goldfish and 5 second memories all 
morning.  I walked up to him and asked something, and he responded with 
"5 second goldfish" (which I took to mean he didn't remember the 
answer).  So I asked him "Banana?" and offered him the banana.  He took 
it, peeled it, and ate it.

In retrospect, it probably was funnier if you were there.

He speaks at this particular tradeshow regularly as well - well known for 
having told one audience he had an experimental pacemaker that was 
sensitive to the RF transmitted by mobile phones.  Got a good laugh at 
the time he said that.

*First* time during the session that someone's phone rang, he yelled out, 
clutched his chest, and dropped to the stage.  People thought he was 
joking, so they laughed - but he *didn't get up* right away.  He waited 
until he started hearing the odd murmur of "gee, maybe he wasn't 
kidding?" - then he got up and everyone had a good laugh over it.  He 
fell so quickly, he nearly fell off the stage....

The guy he was presenting with - a mutual friend from Aaland - said that 
when he dropped, a ton of people in the session *immediately* switched 
their phones off.

He's tried to plan things ahead of time, but it just never seems to 
work.  Only when it's improved does he seem to hit something that works.  
And while it *sounds* like it might've scared people in the audience, 
he's well known in his field for being a bit of a clown.

He also makes an *excellent* chili. :-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Stephen wrote:
> 
> How's the back? 

About the same but improving if know what I mean

> 
> Job confirmed, leave for the mountains Sunday night.

I'll try and get out of bed before then. I'll let you know asap

>> I occasionally wish I'd been able to get a hand on _his_ stash :-)
> 
> Tut, tut :)

;-)

John

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 21:20:22 +0100, Doctor John <joh### [at] homecom> wrote:

>Stephen wrote:
>> 
>> How's the back? 
>
>About the same but improving if know what I mean
>

I do.

>I'll try and get out of bed before then. I'll let you know asap

Don't rush and make things worse.

See you
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On 7 Jul 2008 16:05:33 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

>
>At a technical tradeshow with a bunch of friends who take turns manning 
>one of the booths, just came out from having breakfast and was carrying a 
>banana with me.  One of my friends - Shaun (bloke from your part of the 
>world) - had been making jokes about goldfish and 5 second memories all 
>morning.  I walked up to him and asked something, and he responded with 
>"5 second goldfish" (which I took to mean he didn't remember the 
>answer).  So I asked him "Banana?" and offered him the banana.  He took 
>it, peeled it, and ate it.
>
>In retrospect, it probably was funnier if you were there.
>
Makes sense to me.

>He speaks at this particular tradeshow regularly as well - well known for 
>having told one audience he had an experimental pacemaker that was 
>sensitive to the RF transmitted by mobile phones.  Got a good laugh at 
>the time he said that.
>
>*First* time during the session that someone's phone rang, he yelled out, 
>clutched his chest, and dropped to the stage.  People thought he was 
>joking, so they laughed - but he *didn't get up* right away.  He waited 
>until he started hearing the odd murmur of "gee, maybe he wasn't 
>kidding?" - then he got up and everyone had a good laugh over it.  He 
>fell so quickly, he nearly fell off the stage....

Ke-wrist, Someone did that to me once but it involved acid and bad trips Ho, ho,
ho!

Strange, as you get older these jokes seem less funny.

I actually heard one about someone pretending to have a heart attack and one
kind soul punched him on the heart in preparation to giving him CPR.

>The guy he was presenting with - a mutual friend from Aaland - said that 
>when he dropped, a ton of people in the session *immediately* switched 
>their phones off.
>
>He's tried to plan things ahead of time, but it just never seems to 
>work.  Only when it's improved does he seem to hit something that works.  
>And while it *sounds* like it might've scared people in the audience, 
>he's well known in his field for being a bit of a clown.
>
>He also makes an *excellent* chili. :-)

As you say, from my part of the world :)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 22:08:24 +0100, Stephen wrote:

>>In retrospect, it probably was funnier if you were there.
>>
> Makes sense to me.

:-)

> Ke-wrist, Someone did that to me once but it involved acid and bad trips
> Ho, ho, ho!

He does that sort of thing sober.

> Strange, as you get older these jokes seem less funny.

I s'pose that could happen.  He's not a spring chicken, though.

> I actually heard one about someone pretending to have a heart attack and
> one kind soul punched him on the heart in preparation to giving him CPR.

Yeah, I think that might've been a concern if he hadn't been on a stage.  
I think that separation from the audience helped avoid something like 
that - though kinda surprising nobody called 911....

>>The guy he was presenting with - a mutual friend from Aaland - said that
>>when he dropped, a ton of people in the session *immediately* switched
>>their phones off.
>>
>>He's tried to plan things ahead of time, but it just never seems to
>>work.  Only when it's improved does he seem to hit something that works.
>>And while it *sounds* like it might've scared people in the audience,
>>he's well known in his field for being a bit of a clown.
>>
>>He also makes an *excellent* chili. :-)
> 
> As you say, from my part of the world :)

<g>  We have a party at my house each year (the show is in town) after 
the show's done, and he usually cooks for us.  He's taken a class in 
Oxaca recently (and going to take another this October), so it evolves a 
little bit each year.  We stayed with him and his wife both times we went 
to the UK, and that's how it got started - he made it for dinner one 
night.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

> If the car is used (IIRC 6+months old), you'll get discount from the tax 
> and it's not *that* much anymore (it still is much, just not *that* much).

I hear stories here all the time of Americans coming over, picking up their 
shiny new BMW from the factory, driving it to some shipping agent and then 
flying home again.  Apparently it means they can avoid some tax in the US 
because it's not counted as a brand new car when it enters the country.

>> I assume you're allowed foreign registered cars there for a certain 
>> amount of time, it's 6 months here I think.  You could just replace your 
>> car in Germany every 6 months, although I'm sure they thought of that 
>> already and made it illegal.
>
> Nnnope, a Finnish person ain't allowed to drive foreign-registered car in 
> Finland.

Oh wow.

> It wasn't so long ago when the news had a great story about some Estonian 
> guy with a Finnish wife/gf - she moved his Porsche for 10m oslt and 
> Finland started to demand them to pay cartax (that 96%) of that Porsche.

Hehe, that really is strict then.  But I guess if you have to enforce that 
96% tax, you can't afford to leave open any loopholes.

Post a reply to this message

> But a good example: Audi A4 2.0TDI FWD with Business pack and no other 
> extra equipment makes ~40k€ here.

List price is 28k€ here, couldn't see any reference to a business pack, but 
I guess it can't be much more than 2k.

Post a reply to this message

And lo on Fri, 04 Jul 2008 10:46:04 +0100, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake, saying:

> As I said, I blame the endless cartoons where the cleaver people are  
> always the evil villans or the hopeless geeks who get beat up all day...

I enjoyed reading "Soon I will be Invincible" which on the very first page  
made the observation that the more intelligent the person the greater the  
probability that they'll become a villain rather then a hero.

I think we should all be keeping a much closer eye on Stephen Hawking.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

Post a reply to this message

And lo on Sat, 05 Jul 2008 22:32:53 +0100, Chambers  
<ben### [at] pacificwebguycom> did spake, saying:

> A more realistic immediate goal for them is allowing you to do your  
> taxes online at the IRS's web site, rather than paying a third party to  
> do them for you (there is a partnership program between the IRS and  
> various tax prep companies that allows those companies to do your taxes  
> online for free, but only for certain qualifying individuals {your  
> income has to be in a certain range, and your return can't be very  
> complex}).  This would eliminate a large part of the business of tax  
> firms, but the IRS actually seems more concerned about the taxpayers  
> than the tax preparers.

That's something our lot are doing at the moment, pushing everyone to fill  
out tax returns online and giving monetary incentives to the early  
adopters.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

Post a reply to this message

And lo on Sun, 06 Jul 2008 08:04:18 +0100, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> did  
spake, saying:

>   And do you even know how much gasoline/diesel costs here? An American
> would drop his jaw into the ground if he saw it. Translated to the US
> units, gasoline is about 9.5 dollars/gallon, and diesel is 8.3.

Due to some of the strikes here unleaded blipped up to £1.99/litre which  
at the time was $14.83/US gallon. At the moment it's about $8.88/US gallon

>   Oh, and cars cost almost double what they cost, for example, in Germany
> because of all the taxes. (In Germany, IIRC, a tax of 16% is put on the
> price of sold cars, while in Finland it's something like 96%.)

17.5% standard VAT here on new cars.

>   Not only that, you have to pay mandatory annual car insurance (good
> thing, I suppose)

Ditto

> as well as a mandatory annual car tax (you receive
> nothing in return, it's a *pure* tax for simply *owning* a car, without
> any benefits).

Supposedly here it goes towards the upkeep of the road and the licencing  
authority; ha.

>   Own a TV (or, for that matter, any device capable of decoding TV
> signal)? Tax.

Hmm more specific here - tax is only on devices that can play programmes  
that have been broadcast - so if you buy a small TV to hook up to your  
security camera you don't need a TV licence for it.

> Own a house? Tax.

Ditto.

> Own land? Tax.

Ditto.

> Inherit some money or property from a relative? Tax.

Depends on the amount inherited.

> Win a car abroad and want to bring it
> to Finland? You'll have to pay almost the original price of the car
> in taxes.

Yep Customs and Excise want their slice here too.

>   And if you think you'll get rid of the RIAA by moving to Finland, guess
> again. (Ok, the situation might still not be *so* bad here, but it's
> quickly going in that direction.)

We [heart] RIAA

>   On the plus side, you'll usually get a fast broadband internet  
> connection for a quite moderate price here.

Depends on where you are and your definition of fast.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
>
> I hear stories here all the time of Americans coming over, picking up 
> their shiny new BMW from the factory, driving it to some shipping agent 
> and then flying home again.  Apparently it means they can avoid some tax 
> in the US because it's not counted as a brand new car when it enters the 
> country.

So I think we may come to the conclusion: Finland != US.

:)

>> It wasn't so long ago when the news had a great story about some 
>> Estonian guy with a Finnish wife/gf - she moved his Porsche for 10m 
>> oslt and Finland started to demand them to pay cartax (that 96%) of 
>> that Porsche.
> 
> Hehe, that really is strict then.  But I guess if you have to enforce 
> that 96% tax, you can't afford to leave open any loopholes.
> 

Yep. Highest taxes would always be rounded, if possible.

-- 
Eero "Aero" Ahonen
    http://www.zbxt.net
       aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
>> But a good example: Audi A4 2.0TDI FWD with Business pack and no other 
>> extra equipment makes ~40k€ here.
> 
> List price is 28k€ here, couldn't see any reference to a business pack, 
> but I guess it can't be much more than 2k.
> 

Business pack costs 1k€ here, and inholds equipment for something like 
4-5k€ (cruise, climate control, xenons, leather steering wheel, 
225/55/16 tires etc).

-- 
Eero "Aero" Ahonen
    http://www.zbxt.net
       aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid

Post a reply to this message

On 7 Jul 2008 17:16:26 -0400, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:

>On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 22:08:24 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>

>> Ke-wrist, Someone did that to me once but it involved acid and bad trips
>> Ho, ho, ho!
>
>He does that sort of thing sober.
>
Ho, ho, ho! :)

>> Strange, as you get older these jokes seem less funny.
>
>I s'pose that could happen.  He's not a spring chicken, though.
>

Pray that it does before he becomes an old broiler :)


>Yeah, I think that might've been a concern if he hadn't been on a stage.  
>I think that separation from the audience helped avoid something like 
>that - though kinda surprising nobody called 911....
>

Yeah that would have served him right. Especially if he got the bill from the
emergency services ;)
Maybe I'm being to hard on him. It is good to have a sense of humour, so I'm
told :)


>>>He also makes an *excellent* chili. :-)
>> 
>> As you say, from my part of the world :)
>
><g>  We have a party at my house each year (the show is in town) after 
>the show's done, and he usually cooks for us.  He's taken a class in 
>Oxaca recently (and going to take another this October), so it evolves a 
>little bit each year.  We stayed with him and his wife both times we went 
>to the UK, and that's how it got started - he made it for dinner one 
>night.

Is that Mexican food? I've never tried it. I liked the Cuban food when I was in
Florida but not when I went to Havana for a weekend.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 14:49:52 +0100, Stephen wrote:

>>He does that sort of thing sober.
>>
> Ho, ho, ho! :)

Not that he doesn't like a pint or a glass (or three) of wine when the 
time is right. :-)

>>I s'pose that could happen.  He's not a spring chicken, though.
>>
> Pray that it does before he becomes an old broiler :)

I think the phrase "young at heart" applies - but yes, hoping for a good 
long life for him.

> Yeah that would have served him right. Especially if he got the bill
> from the emergency services ;)

Here in the US, it wouldn't have been much.  I think the company would 
probably have covered it.  But also, there is perhaps an irony that 
people may not have dialed for fear of causing more harm. ;-)

> Maybe I'm being to hard on him. It is good to have a sense of humour, so
> I'm told :)

A little, there again, you had to be there....

>><g>  We have a party at my house each year (the show is in town) after
>>the show's done, and he usually cooks for us.  He's taken a class in
>>Oxaca recently (and going to take another this October), so it evolves a
>>little bit each year.  We stayed with him and his wife both times we
>>went to the UK, and that's how it got started - he made it for dinner
>>one night.
> 
> Is that Mexican food? I've never tried it. I liked the Cuban food when I
> was in Florida but not when I went to Havana for a weekend.

Yeah; I'm pretty sure I spelt the name wrong (or as Shaun would say, 
"wrongly".)  Good Mexican food is actually quite bland - the hot stuff 
tends to be Tex-Mex instead.  I spent a couple weeks in Mexico back in 
the early 80's and *really* liked the food I had there.  There's a couple 
places in Salt Lake City that do good Mexican food as well, might have to 
track some down for lunch today.  Mmmm...

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
>>> OK, so I can't spell very well. I think we've established that one. It's
>>> actually a miracle I can read or write at all! :-P
>> 
>>   Given the subject of this thread, shouldn't you try to better yourself
>> at this instead of just using the "I can't spell very well" defense? ;)
> 
> And who says I'm not trying?
> 
> Either way, laughing at me isn't helping anything, is it? :-P
> 
You have an important point there. What if those kids who say "I'm not good
at math" were once laughed at when giving a silly math answer?

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
> It makes things later in life, assuming you go on with studying maths, a
> lot
> easier.  At university I used to cringe at the people who used their
> calculators so often to do what they really should be doing in their head.
> When you are tackling a large problem it is a huge advantage do be able to
> do at least the basics very quickly in your head.

And it's very easy to lose practice. I used to be good at maths at school.
Now (like 2 years later), I sometimes take a few seconds to solve those
silly "6+7" anti-spam tests. Probably I wouldn't take too much time to get
my brain in practice again, but...

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
>>> It is not immediately clear to me that the quotient of two 
>>> polynomials is necessarily a polynomial.
>>
>> Nope, same as dividing two integers doesn't always give an integer 
>> answer, you sometimes end up with fractional parts in the answer.
> 
> Right. So there should also be a polymonial modulus operator?

Indeed there is.  It is a useful operation in abstract algebra, 
particularly in extending sets of numbers so that they contain elements 
with useful algebraic properties.  For instance, if you consider 
polynomials over the real numbers modulo X^2-1, you get the same 
structure as the complex numbers (you can do a similar thing for 
quaternions).

In terms of real-world uses, iirc the polynomial modulus is valuable in 
in information coding.  For example modular multiplication of 
polynomials is a step in the AES cypher and a CRC checksum is 
essentially a polynomial modulus.

Post a reply to this message

>> Right. So there should also be a polymonial modulus operator?
> 
> Indeed there is.

Ooo...

> For instance, if you consider 
> polynomials over the real numbers modulo X^2-1, you get the same 
> structure as the complex numbers (you can do a similar thing for 
> quaternions).

Aren't quaternions non-associative?

> In terms of real-world uses, iirc the polynomial modulus is valuable in 
> in information coding.  For example modular multiplication of 
> polynomials is a step in the AES cypher and a CRC checksum is 
> essentially a polynomial modulus.

...and *this* is why I can't implement AES or CRC.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
>> For instance, if you consider polynomials over the real numbers modulo 
>> X^2-1, you get the same structure as the complex numbers (you can do a 
>> similar thing for quaternions).
> 
> Aren't quaternions non-associative?

Non-commutative you mean, but yes.  The quaternion representation using 
modular polynomials considers polynomials of two variables (x and y) and 
real coefficients where multiplication between x and y is 
non-commutative.  So the polynomials inherit their non-commutativity 
from their variables.

Note that it's not actually important to say what sorts of numbers x and 
y would actually represent -- we're just dealing with polynomials in 
their purest form, where *all* we know about x and y are they have 
operators like addition, subtraction, and multiplication which satisfy a 
few basic mathematical properties: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_(mathematics)

> ...and *this* is why I can't implement AES or CRC.

It's not so difficult as you might think, it's just takes some getting 
used to the math.  If you're interested in the implementation rather 
than the math end of things, Wikipedia has a typically verbose article 
on the subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computation_of_CRC

There's also some C code dealing with the polynomials used in AES at the 
bottom of this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_field_arithmetic


Also forgot to mention that (if I recall correctly) ideas related to 
this play an important role in some of the operations in computer 
algebra systems.

Post a reply to this message

>> Aren't quaternions non-associative?
> 
> Non-commutative you mean, but yes.

Oh. Maybe I'm thinking of hypercomplex numbers then? I recall that it's 
not possible to generalise the complex field to 3 or 4 dimensions 
(although I have no idea why), so all the generalisations people have 
come up with fail to be fields.

By complete coincidence, I spent my afternoon today reading about magmas 
and groups and rings and quasigroups and semigroups and groupoids and 
rings and skew rings and splitting fields and fields of factors and 
polynomial rings and that whole zoo of other things... Apparently 
"vector field" doesn't mean what you'd expect at all! :-D

I've spent a while looking at group theory. It's not "hard", it's just 
that there are lots and lots of terms to learn, mostly with unintuitive 
names, and the whole system of groups constructed from groups 
constructed from groups gets confusing quite fast. Similarly, the stuff 
with rings and fields and so forth isn't "hard", there's just lots of 
stuff to remember...

> Also forgot to mention that (if I recall correctly) ideas related to 
> this play an important role in some of the operations in computer 
> algebra systems.

Mathematica directly uses the commutivity and associativity of various 
operators, not to mention distributivity. Indeed there are built-in 
methods for telling Mathematica that your new function is associative 
and/or commutative. (Distributive requires explicit transformation rules...)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> I've spent a while looking at group theory. It's not "hard", it's just 
> that there are lots and lots of terms to learn, mostly with unintuitive 
> names, and the whole system of groups constructed from groups 
> constructed from groups gets confusing quite fast. Similarly, the stuff 
> with rings and fields and so forth isn't "hard", there's just lots of 
> stuff to remember...

Yeah, once you get used to it it's not to bad.  I think that proving 
things in it is a bit trickier though, as it seems to involve deep leaps 
of logical intuition more than other areas such as analysis.  It's sort 
of fun like that though, as you can actually do interesting math without 
having to acquire a ton of background knowledge.


>> Also forgot to mention that (if I recall correctly) ideas related to 
>> this play an important role in some of the operations in computer 
>> algebra systems.
> 
> Mathematica directly uses the commutivity and associativity of various 
> operators, not to mention distributivity. Indeed there are built-in 
> methods for telling Mathematica that your new function is associative 
> and/or commutative. (Distributive requires explicit transformation 
> rules...)

I was specifically thinking of the use of polynomials ideals in Gröbner 
bases (a useful took for computer algebra systems), but indeed being 
careful about how you deal with the basic algebraic properties like 
commutativity and associativity is more fundamental to such programs.

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> By complete coincidence, I spent my afternoon today reading about magmas
> and groups and rings and quasigroups and semigroups and groupoids and
> rings and skew rings and splitting fields and fields of factors and
> polynomial rings and that whole zoo of other things... Apparently
> "vector field" doesn't mean what you'd expect at all! :-D

And I've yet to figure out how to solve t out of

(X0 + Xd * t - Xc)^2 + (Y0 + Yd * t - Yc)^2 + (Z0 + Zd * t - Zc)^2 = Sr^2

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