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And lo on Tue, 01 Apr 2008 13:15:17 +0100, scott <sco### [at] laptop com> did
spake, saying:
>>> I would far rather trust MS with that than a group of voluntary
>>> workers. MS has a brand name to protect and shareholders to please,
>>> they are not going to do anything stupid.
>>
>> Vista? Sorry cheap shot ;-)
>
> Hehe, but would have been stupider not to release Vista (what would
> happen to MS once everyone owned a copy of WinXP?).
They'd have to produce a new OS that was better then XP? Alright being
serious everyone compares Vista to the early days of XP, except then we
were talking about switching home users from an unstable 95/98/ME OS to a
more stable XP that didn't require too stupid a hardware jump and seemed
to feature much more obvious benefits.
Now we've got a base using the stable XP, which just works (most of the
time) with anything you throw at it and trying to get them to invest in
this new Vista system by the same old tactic of 'convincing' the hardware
distributors to only use it. Then the home users find that half
(exaggeration) the stuff they want to do they can't run, that it's slower
on boot, slower to load; but hey at least it's pretty, assuming you've not
got suckered into that whole "Vista capable" scam
Microsoft can whine all they like about the fact its more secure etc. the
fact is as it stands it's worse then XP from a user perspective. The best
comparison may be getting the 2k user base upgrading to XP or hell even
the 2k crowd to Vista, why should I bother?
Anyway here's some silly examples of fun with Vista -
Windows Defender has blocked some startup programs. Hmm well these
programs are fine, a part of the sound/video software please run them and
stop bothering me. No can do; I'll run them, but I'll bug you about it
next time you reboot and next time and next time...
"I don't like this [news widget] how do I get rid of it?" Easy I clicked
on the widget then the X button that appeared, oh no wait as soon as my
cursor passes off the main body of the item the X and properties buttons
vanish. I'll use the main bar properties to remove it, nope you can
install but can't seem to remove. I ended up dragging it off the side bar
at which point it retained the close button for me to select.
On occasion decides to downgrade the wireless connection from Local and
Internet to just Local needs disconnecting and reconnecting or diagnose
fault'ing before it returns.
Still can't get it to sync with a Nokia phone by cable without core
dumping, still can't get it to sync with a Sony Ericsson phone full stop.
Still wondering why after logging in it displays the normal screen then
goes black and refreshes itself
Still wondering why the boot process to log-in is slower the XP and why it
takes longer to allow you do something past that point despite the fact
it's running on much better hardware.
Still amused that as part of the Ultimate package and running the MCE
section setup it asks what cables I'm using to connect the computer to the
screen - it's a laptop and Vista knows it's a laptop.
Still refuses to create or open an Access 2k database in Access 2k, Word
and Excel work fine though it wouldn't save passwords in Outlook.
Still curious as to why on boot it just displays a moving 'scroll bar'
line with no logo - oo a black screen with a moving bar to watch; how dull.
Still annoyed that to shut it down you have to pick the arrow next to the
lock button which then displays a sad 98 style menu bar as if it was some
sort of afterthought (reading some articles it may well have been).
Before anyone points out that there are/may be ways around these or that
these problems are/may be caused by third-party drivers - I know, but from
the point of view of the users I'm with it don't work.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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Invisible wrote:
>> ...and the way I learnt was by playing with the various config files and
>> making (frequent) mistakes. :-)
>
> Dude, that's like trying to learn POV-Ray without reading the manual! o_O
>
It worked for me :-) I started to read the manuals after I had
internalised the structure. I learnt POV much the same way. Ditto many
other things I do. Manuals don't work with me until I've got a mental
feel for the subject then I use them to polish the finished product.
(Mixed metaphors all over the place but ykwim)
... and before you ask, Standing up in a hammock on a 42ft yacht in a
force 9 in the North Atlantic :-D
John
--
I will be brief but not nearly so brief as Salvador Dali, who gave the
world's shortest speech. He said, "I will be so brief I am already
finished," then he sat down.
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Phil Cook wrote:
> They'd have to produce a new OS that was better then XP? Alright being
> serious everyone compares Vista to the early days of XP, except then we
> were talking about switching home users from an unstable 95/98/ME OS to
> a more stable XP that didn't require too stupid a hardware jump and
> seemed to feature much more obvious benefits.
>
> Now we've got a base using the stable XP, which just works (most of the
> time) with anything you throw at it and trying to get them to invest in
> this new Vista system by the same old tactic of 'convincing' the
> hardware distributors to only use it. Then the home users find that half
> (exaggeration) the stuff they want to do they can't run, that it's
> slower on boot, slower to load; but hey at least it's pretty, assuming
> you've not got suckered into that whole "Vista capable" scam
>
> Microsoft can whine all they like about the fact its more secure etc.
> the fact is as it stands it's worse then XP from a user perspective. The
> best comparison may be getting the 2k user base upgrading to XP or hell
> even the 2k crowd to Vista, why should I bother?
http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20070331
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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And lo on Tue, 01 Apr 2008 15:36:22 +0100, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did
spake, saying:
> Phil Cook wrote:
>
>> Microsoft can whine all they like about the fact its more secure etc
.
>> the fact is as it stands it's worse then XP from a user perspective.
>> The best comparison may be getting the 2k user base upgrading to XP o
r
>> hell even the 2k crowd to Vista, why should I bother?
>
> http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20070331
http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/news.php?i=1355
Which I partialy agree with; though I find his comment about turning off
the security windows amusing as it doesn't answer the questions as to wh
y
do people want to turn then off nor why were they implemented.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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> They'd have to produce a new OS that was better then XP?
I think that's the problem, it is pretty hard for MS to drastically improve
on XP, but I guess they tried, and thanks to OEMs and software/hardware
vendors we will all be forced to buy Vista at some point in the future.
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> Dude, that's like trying to learn POV-Ray without reading the manual! o_O
>
That's what a friend was trying to do...
him: I'll just try out stuff, like I do to learn any other program
me: but in other programs you have menus and stuff that you can explore,
you can't do that in a programming language
him: shutup I'll do it my way
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news: op.t8xqkvy4c3xi7v@news.povray.org...
> Still refuses to create or open an Access 2k database in Access 2k.
Do you have the trial version of Office 2007 installed? There's a problem
with references due to Vista's security requirements (it's explained in
detail somewhere in the KB) so you can't have 2K and 2007 installed without
Access 2k crashing or doing weird stuff. Just uninstall the trial Office
2007 and it should work.
G.
--
*****************************
http://www.oyonale.com
*****************************
- Graphic experiments
- POV-Ray, Cinema 4D and Poser computer images
- Posters
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scott <sco### [at] laptopcom> wrote:
> > They'd have to produce a new OS that was better then XP?
> I think that's the problem, it is pretty hard for MS to drastically improve
> on XP, but I guess they tried, and thanks to OEMs and software/hardware
> vendors we will all be forced to buy Vista at some point in the future.
I think that's the main problem with Microsoft: They have to try to
release completely "new and drastically improved" versions of Windows
each 5 years or so. In pratice, they have to create new versions of
Windows which they can sell at full price every time.
Free OSes such as Linux don't suffer from this problem. They can be
developed without any pressure, one feature at a time. There's no need
to create a new major version each 5 years. The OS is just improved
little by little, and most people just upgrade when they want, if they
want. There are no "big but bug-ridden major releases" of Linux. There's
no need for that.
Of course there may be "big but bug-ridden major releases" of some
specific linux distros, but even with those the problem is not as bad
as with Windows. There just isn't the same kind of commercial pressure.
--
- Warp
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And lo on Tue, 01 Apr 2008 16:36:07 +0100, Gilles Tran
<gil### [at] agroparistechfr> did spake, saying:
> de
> news: op.t8xqkvy4c3xi7v@news.povray.org...
>
>> Still refuses to create or open an Access 2k database in Access 2k.
>
> Do you have the trial version of Office 2007 installed? There's a problem
> with references due to Vista's security requirements (it's explained in
> detail somewhere in the KB) so you can't have 2K and 2007 installed
> without
> Access 2k crashing or doing weird stuff. Just uninstall the trial Office
> 2007 and it should work.
It was installed and got uninstalled, but it does have full Outlook 07 on
it now.
I looked up the exact error I was getting in the KB and it told me I was
trying to open a database that had been sorted in the non-default way in a
different language, which a) wasn't true and b) wasn't true. Nothing about
'oh by the way you can't have a 07 and 2k product installed on Vista at
the same time', but I'll have another look; thanks.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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Doctor John wrote:
> It worked for me :-) I started to read the manuals after I had
> internalised the structure. I learnt POV much the same way. Ditto many
> other things I do. Manuals don't work with me until I've got a mental
> feel for the subject then I use them to polish the finished product.
> (Mixed metaphors all over the place but ykwim)
I should add that in the beginning I had a mentor who was able to point
me in the right direction if I was going hopelessly wrong but he agreed
with me that the best way to learn is by making mastikes. Doing it that
way often leads one to finding undocumented "features" and sometimes
even to useful insights about the utility/app being played with.
I don't recommend hitting the system with a large hammer but I certainly
advocate taking the back off, getting out a jeweller's loupe and gently
probing around with the recommended set of tools.
John
--
I will be brief but not nearly so brief as Salvador Dali, who gave the
world's shortest speech. He said, "I will be so brief I am already
finished," then he sat down.
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