On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 21:12:30 +0100, Orchid XP v3 wrote:

> My dad tells me that when he wins the lottery, he's going to be a
> ****-of Big Foot. And he's going to drive it down the road and
> accidentally mutilate that van. Sure, he'll probably have to pay for a
> new van. But at least it'll be mutilated then.

There are days where I wish I was driving a real beater (something worth 
< $200) on the road, just so I could ram people who are being stupid 
idiots.

The roll cage and reinforced bumpers *might* just be a giveaway though...

Jim

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"Jim Charter" <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote in message 
news:46db376a$1@news.povray.org...
> St. wrote:
>>  Are they worst people in the world, or not?

> Dunno Steve, I'm thinking you'll loose this one.  I mean suppose the 
> foreward car was some big mother Esplanade or something else huge, a motor 
> home or something, such that it is taking most of the space.  Are you 
> going to insist that because it is a 'two-car' space you can park your 
> minicoup or whatever, and block the guy's drive, just because maybe you 
> can get your front nose over the line and into some fraction of the space? 
> Or what if 4 motor bikes were there?  Seems like you could park whatever 
> you want as long as you don't violate the end markings, but if you can't 
> fit your car in, however reasonable its size, then you just can't?

   Oh, I know I'll lose, I'm prepared to pay. As for parking there if there 
was a bigger vehicle parked there, and say, there was only half a space, I 
just wouldn't park there, knowing full well that I'd probably get a ticket 
with half a car stuck out the back end. But, what's that distance in the 
picture? A foot? 18 inches? It's just petty, that's all. My main point is if 
it's going to be a two car bay, then make sure that it's big enough for two 
cars in the first place, otherwise, what's the point?

    ~Steve~

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> There are days where I wish I was driving a real beater (something worth
> < $200) on the road, just so I could ram people who are being stupid
> idiots.

Oh when I left university I didn't have much money and I got my car for £50 
from someone who was going to scrap it.  There was a big dent in the driver 
side door and a few other smaller dents.  You would not believe how many 
people got out of the way when there was a "fight" for position on the road 
(like 2 lanes going down into 1) - it really was cool.

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>   Oh, I know I'll lose, I'm prepared to pay. As for parking there if there 
> was a bigger vehicle parked there, and say, there was only half a space, I 
> just wouldn't park there, knowing full well that I'd probably get a ticket 
> with half a car stuck out the back end. But, what's that distance in the 
> picture? A foot? 18 inches? It's just petty, that's all. My main point is 
> if it's going to be a two car bay, then make sure that it's big enough for 
> two cars in the first place, otherwise, what's the point?

Both cars in the photo look pretty large cars.  Two smaller cars (or even 
one big and one small) would fit easily in there.

BTW, why is it illegal there to park outside the marked bays?  There doesn't 
seem to be any yellow lines, or does it say on the sign "parking only in 
marked bays"?  Around where I used to live people always parked how you did 
and nobody got a ticket.

If it was me, I would write in the letter for a clarification of exactly 
what the white line means.  Does your entire tyre foot-print have to be 
inside the inner border of the line, or is it allowed to be on the line.  Or 
does it mean your entire car must be inside the line, overhangs and all, and 
which side of the line counts... etc.  If they don't have a detailed policy 
on this then how can they prosecute people in a fair way, it's probably 
against some European human rights thingy that they have to treat everyone 
fairly.. blah blah blah.

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On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 09:16:28 +0200, scott wrote:

> Oh when I left university I didn't have much money and I got my car for
> £50 from someone who was going to scrap it.  There was a big dent in the
> driver side door and a few other smaller dents.  You would not believe
> how many people got out of the way when there was a "fight" for position
> on the road (like 2 lanes going down into 1) - it really was cool.

I can imagine.  There was a staffer where I went to university who worked 
deals like that on cars, I imagine he also didn't have to fight hard to 
get position on the road. :-)

Jim

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"scott" <sco### [at] laptopcom> wrote in message news:46dbb643@news.povray.org...

> Both cars in the photo look pretty large cars.

        They are. Mine's a Rover 820, which is also large.


Two smaller cars (or even
> one big and one small) would fit easily in there.

    That's also my point - it's kind of like a descrimination against big 
(or long, like mine) cars.


>
> BTW, why is it illegal there to park outside the marked bays?  There 
> doesn't seem to be any yellow lines, or does it say on the sign "parking 
> only in marked bays"?

      I have no idea why it's illegal. All I know is that since the police 
don't control parking regs any more, there's been a drive to get as many 
people booked with an offence as much as possible. Seriously, you should see 
the parking attendants in action around here, they all walk fast looking for 
the next one.




Around where I used to live people always parked how you did
> and nobody got a ticket.

     Scott, I could sit at that window all day and take a zillion pictures 
of people parking 'illegally' just like I did and that person did, and then 
send all those pictures (without the number plates obscured) to the council. 
That would upset the apple cart!  >:o)




>
> If it was me, I would write in the letter for a clarification of exactly 
> what the white line means.  Does your entire tyre foot-print have to be 
> inside the inner border of the line, or is it allowed to be on the line. 
> Or does it mean your entire car must be inside the line, overhangs and 
> all, and which side of the line counts... etc.  If they don't have a 
> detailed policy on this then how can they prosecute people in a fair way, 
> it's probably against some European human rights thingy that they have to 
> treat everyone fairly.. blah blah blah.

     It's a new directive over here now. As I said, the police don't control 
parking any more, the council employs people to do it. It's a self financing 
thing too, so money has to be incoming. I just found this in one of our 
council's  PDF files:

 "20. What if I think the Penalty Charge Notice (ticket) was issued 
unfairly?
You write to us saying why you think it was unfair. We will consider your 
arguments and give you our response. If we believe the ticket was issued for 
valid reasons but you are unhappy with the decision you have the right to 
appeal to an independent adjudication body (National Parking Adjudication 
Service). We will tell you whom to contact if you want to do this."

    It's obvious this is what's going to happen, so I think I'll follow 
through with this if they say I still have to pay. It's the principal. I 
wasn't blocking anyone, and my car wasn't at an angle or anything else - my 
wheels were outside of the back line, that's all.

    ~Steve~

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>      I have no idea why it's illegal. All I know is that since the police 
> don't control parking regs any more, there's been a drive to get as many 
> people booked with an offence as much as possible.

I would check that an offence has actually been committed though.  Without 
any other lines or signs, the white parking lines do not mean anything 
legally.  Ask them to tell you exactly which law you were breaking, AFAIK 
there is no law that says "you must not park outside marked parking spaces". 
Usually where I've seen marked spaces, the rest of the road has double 
reds/yellows or at least a sign that says similar.

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"scott" <sco### [at] laptopcom> wrote in message 
news:46dbd735$1@news.povray.org...
>>      I have no idea why it's illegal. All I know is that since the police
>> don't control parking regs any more, there's been a drive to get as many
>> people booked with an offence as much as possible.
>
> I would check that an offence has actually been committed though.  Without
> any other lines or signs, the white parking lines do not mean anything
> legally.  Ask them to tell you exactly which law you were breaking, AFAIK
> there is no law that says "you must not park outside marked parking 
> spaces".
> Usually where I've seen marked spaces, the rest of the road has double
> reds/yellows or at least a sign that says similar.

      Yes, I'm going to ask them this because really, at the end of the day, 
there is no offence. See the attached. Why are those two cars allowed to 
park across the road like that? That blue car can't have received any 
tickets because it's been parking there everyday for the last two years. The 
car in the other image where I was parked also got a ticket, (you can just 
see it on the windscreen) and at first glance I would say that it's her 
fault that she didn't move a bit further on, but then I don't know what the 
circumstances were when she first parked there - there may well have been a 
bigger vehicle in front of her instead of the car now.

    The official signs that are there are only 2 hour waiting signs, there's 
nothing that says you must park within the lines.

     ~Steve~

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Attachments:
Download 'park3.jpg' (66 KB) Download 'park2.jpg' (36 KB)

Preview of image 'park3.jpg'

Preview of image 'park2.jpg'

>      Yes, I'm going to ask them this because really, at the end of the 
> day, there is no offence. See the attached. Why are those two cars allowed 
> to park across the road like that? That blue car can't have received any 
> tickets because it's been parking there everyday for the last two years. 
> The car in the other image where I was parked also got a ticket, (you can 
> just see it on the windscreen) and at first glance I would say that it's 
> her fault that she didn't move a bit further on, but then I don't know 
> what the circumstances were when she first parked there - there may well 
> have been a bigger vehicle in front of her instead of the car now.
>
>    The official signs that are there are only 2 hour waiting signs, 
> there's nothing that says you must park within the lines.

From those photos I can't see anything that indicates any of the cars are 
parked illegally or dangerously.  Look at the red car across the street, it 
is parked in practically the same position as the red car in the foreground 
(position of rear wheel relative to the sunken kerb).  Why should one get a 
ticket and not the other?

If you'd parked on the single yellow line, then fair enough, but you 
weren't, by a long way.

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St. wrote:
> "Jim Charter" <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote in message 
> news:46db376a$1@news.povray.org...
> 
>>St. wrote:
>>
>>> Are they worst people in the world, or not?
> 
> 
>>Dunno Steve, I'm thinking you'll loose this one.  I mean suppose the 
>>foreward car was some big mother Esplanade or something else huge, a motor 
>>home or something, such that it is taking most of the space.  Are you 
>>going to insist that because it is a 'two-car' space you can park your 
>>minicoup or whatever, and block the guy's drive, just because maybe you 
>>can get your front nose over the line and into some fraction of the space? 
>>Or what if 4 motor bikes were there?  Seems like you could park whatever 
>>you want as long as you don't violate the end markings, but if you can't 
>>fit your car in, however reasonable its size, then you just can't?
> 
> 
>    Oh, I know I'll lose, I'm prepared to pay. As for parking there if there 
> was a bigger vehicle parked there, and say, there was only half a space, I 
> just wouldn't park there, knowing full well that I'd probably get a ticket 
> with half a car stuck out the back end. But, what's that distance in the 
> picture? A foot? 18 inches? It's just petty, that's all. My main point is if 
> it's going to be a two car bay, then make sure that it's big enough for two 
> cars in the first place, otherwise, what's the point?
> 
>     ~Steve~ 
> 
> 
Ahh. Okay, I see what you mean on the 'pettiness' point, that you are 
not really doing harm, and the marking is a guideline.  You might even 
get a break there. I mean if expanding the zone is common practice.  On 
the other hand maybe the owner of the driveway complained.  My brother 
lives in a very toney, leafy, old money section of Toronto with quiet, 
wide streets. When I went to visit him once it became apparent that 
parking was the undeclared war in the neighbourhood.  Before even saying 
hello to me my sister-in-law asks me where I parked! In NY there is an 
actual measurement, 15 inches 2 feet? something like that, that applies 
to driveways.  I know one fellow who actually took a picture of a 
situation when he got ticketed but the parking bureau just told him that 
he could of moved the car before taking the pic!  Obviously not, they 
were packed in like sardines, if he could have he would have in the 
first place.

I'm having problems on the 'two car' idea though.  I mean what is the 
alternative?  Somehow try and mark the space for one 'full size' car and 
limit it to that?  Then what do you do if you have something bigger? At 
least they are giving as much space as they can.  Seems to me they are 
just saying here are the limits, use it however, just don't violate the 
lines.  There are parking *meters* in NY here, usually at the back of a 
block, that are setup such that there is no way the space will 
accommodate a full size model car.  And beware the driver who parks with 
his rear bumper a fraction into the pedestrian crosswalk.  But hey, the 
city needs the money, and everyone wants parking, and so if you have a 
small enough car?  I mean think of it this way, maybe the sanctimonious 
little sh*t in his little car, who gets the little space, would 
otherwise be taking the full size space you need.  Lame, but the best I 
can do for you.

What I hate?  Here the cops are all over yellow cabs for blocking 
traffic.  Meanwhile cab drivers suffer from kidney stones, driving 11 
hours a shift with no where to piss.  There are taxi relief stands, 
quite a lot of them actually, but you would never know it.  Everyone 
just parks in them as if they are free parking, and the signs are never 
enforced by these traffic bums.

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