POV-Ray : Newsgroups : povray.general : Zazzle site is open Server Time
16 Jun 2024 11:03:34 EDT (-0400)
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From: Renderdog
Subject: Re: Zazzle site is open
Date: 11 Mar 2003 15:55:04
Message: <web.3e6e4c47c070d06c7ba9929f0@news.povray.org>
Greg M. Johnson wrote:
>I have an image with two ratings!
>
>Q: Do you think that a border-within-the-bitmap-itself  is critical to
>making a design look finished?

I searched Zazzle for an image under your name and came up blank. Can you
provide a link or name?

I think in many cases a border looks nice, but for this purpose I'd prefer
no border. A matte or frame will provide a border for the print. A
bitmapped border is wasting valuable print space, in my opinion. I also
prefer discretely hidden signatures in the artwork.

art.com provides a "see it framed" utility on their website that lets you
see the image matted and framed. It can even show double mattes. Perhaps
Zazzle will get something like that eventually.


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From: Gilles Tran
Subject: Re: Zazzle site is open
Date: 11 Mar 2003 18:19:01
Message: <3e6e6ee5@news.povray.org>

web.3e6e4c47c070d06c7ba9929f0@news.povray.org...
> art.com provides a "see it framed" utility on their website that lets you
> see the image matted and framed. It can even show double mattes. Perhaps
> Zazzle will get something like that eventually.

In fact it does provide it and it can create text and borders for you. The
problem was that when I tried it (this was 18 months ago, so it may have
changed), positionning text was extremely imprecise and took too much trial
and error to get right. I ended up doing bitmapped borders instead, but I'd
rather have the buyer be able to choose between several framing options (no
border, white border, black border etc.).

G.


--
**********************
http://www.oyonale.com
**********************
- Graphic experiments
- POV-Ray and Poser computer images
- Posters


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From: Greg M  Johnson
Subject: Re: Zazzle site is open
Date: 11 Mar 2003 22:57:49
Message: <3e6eb03d$1@news.povray.org>
"Renderdog" <slo### [at] hiwaaynet> wrote in message
news:web.3e6e4c47c070d06c7ba9929f0@news.povray.org...
>
> I searched Zazzle for an image under your name and came up blank. Can you
> provide a link or name?
>


I'm pterandon at:

http://www.zazzle.com/contributors/products/gallery/browse_results.asp?cid=2
38024427131949824

The images were IIRC done with Tierazon or its siblings.


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From: Christoph Hormann
Subject: Re: Zazzle site is open
Date: 13 Mar 2003 11:38:16
Message: <3E70B3F7.A6E4F8E8@gmx.de>
Gilles Tran wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> About the resolution, I know that it's low, but from what I've seen it's OK
> as posters are meant to be watched from a certain distance. Note that the
> Wet bird was enlarged x 1.5 so it's more fuzzy that it should be, not that
> it's abnormal for a image featuring rain. I'd like to render it bigger than
> 2400*3200 but it was done with Megapov and the fast focal blur feature
> freaks out on large image sizes. The image maps are too low-def anyway, so
> to create a very high definition version of this image I will have to do
> some additional 2d work and find a way to recreate the focal blur that looks
> good and doesn't take ages (even in post-process and lots of RAM it's not
> easy to do with 90Mb files).

For future post processing features in Megapov it will be taken care that
it can handle large image sizes if there is enough memory.  The problem
about focal blur is that it is not 'local' - you can't post process it
line by line and thereby saving a lot of memory.  

HCR-Edit does handle such image sizes but you will probably run into
memory problems as well.  It allocates 3x32bit per pixel for the image and
the same size again for all modifications.  Plus 32 bit per pixel for the
depth map when doing post processing.  Apart from that focal blur will
take some time at that size...

Christoph

-- 
POV-Ray tutorials, include files, Sim-POV,
HCR-Edit and more: http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0013390/
Last updated 28 Feb. 2003 _____./\/^>_*_<^\/\.______


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From: ABX
Subject: Re: Zazzle site is open
Date: 13 Mar 2003 11:49:59
Message: <v2d17v8k0224ptna63ug2emnffd8cfc5ac@4ax.com>
On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 17:38:15 +0100, Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde>
wrote:
> For future post processing features in Megapov it will be taken care that
> it can handle large image sizes if there is enough memory.  The problem
> about focal blur is that it is not 'local' - you can't post process it
> line by line and thereby saving a lot of memory.  

In order to avoid often swapping, size of memory cache is adjustable. It is
percentage of image size. If you know that some effect use values within
some distance from current pixel you can adjust cache to best size
(differently for each source: red, blue, green, normals, ipoints, depth, uv)
and engine tries follow calculations with content of this cache.

followups to p.u.p

ABX


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From: Gilles Tran
Subject: Re: Zazzle site is open
Date: 13 Mar 2003 13:10:13
Message: <3e70c985$1@news.povray.org>

3E70B3F7.A6E4F8E8@gmx.de...
> HCR-Edit does handle such image sizes but you will probably run into
> memory problems as well.  It allocates 3x32bit per pixel for the image and
> the same size again for all modifications.  Plus 32 bit per pixel for the
> depth map when doing post processing.  Apart from that focal blur will
> take some time at that size...

My only experience with post-processed focal blur on large images (min
3200*2400) so far has been with Gimp (Picture Publisher crashes). It worked
but each step of the whole process took a very, very, very long time (I let
it run at night...), and I couldn't find a way to control the "bleeding".
I've seen that HCR-Edit can control bleeding so I'll have a try some day.
"True" or "fake", focal blur in large pics with relatively complex content
is still an issue.

G.
--

**********************
http://www.oyonale.com
**********************
- Graphic experiments
- POV-Ray and Poser computer images
- Posters


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From: Rune
Subject: Re: Zazzle site is open
Date: 13 Mar 2003 18:57:47
Message: <3e711afb$1@news.povray.org>
Gilles Tran wrote:
> The zazzle site http://www.zazzle.com is now out of beta
> phase after several years of beta activities.

Nice.

> - contributors can now delete items from their gallery

Annoyingly, I can't when they are created more than 24 hours ago.


Something I've just experienced - when trying to add a zazzle product on
the povray.org site, I get the error:

"You did not enter a valid product ID. Valid product ID's are numbers
that begin with either a '1' or a '7', and must be exactly 8 digits in
length."

Huh? The IDs for my products are 18 digits in length and don't start
with 1 or 7...

For those interested:

http://www.zazzle.com/products/product/product.asp?product%5Fid=22869307
7856473500

http://www.zazzle.com/products/product/product.asp?product%5Fid=22890666
8216953872

0 products sold so far... ;)

Rune
--
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rune|vision:  http://runevision.com (updated Oct 19)
POV-Ray Ring: http://webring.povray.co.uk


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From: Jet Jaguar
Subject: Print Resolution (was: Re: Zazzle site is open)
Date: 13 Mar 2003 19:19:41
Message: <rl727vca4fas7m4bem6lfnsbi3jsj4is4i@4ax.com>
I have never had prints made but I've got a couple of images I'm
thinking of having done, I'm curious to hear some opinions on what
would be an acceptable resolution.  If Zazzle's 100 pixels per inch is
considered low, what should I aim to render at?  200ppi?  300ppi?  How
much does the print media affect resolution (i.e. glossy photo paper
needs x pixels per inch, while matte photo paper needs y)?

---
Bob Chmilnitzky (a.k.a. Jet Jaguar)
I have a spam blocking address.  Replying to me is like pulling teeth.
Visit my crappy home page at http://home.att.net/~chmilnir/
MSTie #54297

Crossposting makes Baby Jesus cry.


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From: Renderdog
Subject: Re: Print Resolution (was: Re: Zazzle site is open)
Date: 13 Mar 2003 20:45:04
Message: <web.3e7132bb1eae248e272618640@news.povray.org>
Jet Jaguar wrote:
>I have never had prints made but I've got a couple of images I'm
>thinking of having done, I'm curious to hear some opinions on what
>would be an acceptable resolution.  If Zazzle's 100 pixels per inch is
>considered low, what should I aim to render at?  200ppi?  300ppi?  How
>much does the print media affect resolution (i.e. glossy photo paper
>needs x pixels per inch, while matte photo paper needs y)?

The image, printer, and software all make a big difference, but generally
300 is great if you can afford it. People with good near vision looking
closely would appreciate the difference. 200 is a good practical number for
most people, generally looking very good. 100 is borderline; looking
closely will definitely show pixels (or it will appear blurry). 100 is fine
for images that won't be looked at closely, or where sharpness is not
required. It looks surprisingly good with some images.

Generally, glossy media will show more resolution, but some printers are
excellent on matte and art papers. If I had to guess I'd say glossy
typically gains around 50ppi resolution in display ability; glossy also has
slightly better blacks and saturation. Even so, I prefer the look of a
matte print.

For my printer, for an image I want to look it's best, I use 240 (partly
because it's an even multiple of the printer's actual resolution).


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From: Renderdog
Subject: Re: Zazzle site is open
Date: 14 Mar 2003 19:30:05
Message: <web.3e7272b0c070d06c2f7cbfd80@news.povray.org>
Renderdog wrote:
>I'll report back on the Zazzle's print quality when I get it.

The print (a large matte canvas of the wet bird) arrived and it looks great.
The colors look perfect and the blacks are good (I assume the gloss canvas
would have better blacks, but this one is fine). The matte canvas is VERY
matte, which I like. It has a diagonal weave which is unusual but looks
fine.

The 100dpi image is very good. It's not razor sharp, but no one will ever
look at this print and notice any lack of clarity.

I wouldn't hesitate to order from Zazzle again. They provided a great
product at a good price with a quick turnaround and minimum hassle. Be sure
to order through the www.povray.org website if you can.


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