"m1j" <mik### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
news:web.417ee390b45fa19ef7635e200@news.povray.org...
> emkaah <emkaah@yahoodotcom> wrote:
> > m1j wrote:
> > > the improvements for later and go again with the improvements. If the
> > > companies that donated the prizes expected this competition to be
perfect
> > > then perhaps new sponsors are needed anyway.
> > Dumbo.
> >
> > > legal issues that could change things. If anyone has access to legal
advice
> > > I would encourage some counseling.
> > >
> > Suggesting to sue a bunch of VOLUNTEERS working hard to make an OPEN
> > competition for a FREEWARE product a success, isn't mine style. And
> > neither should be yours.
> >
> > -Em
>
> There is no suggesting in my post. I was just stating a warning. We could
> all go blindly forward thinking no one here would do something like this
> but with $14,000 in prize money there could be someone now or after the
> finals are posted in Feb. that after losing decides they where not dealt
> properly. The rules are conditions to a contract that was ratified by each
> of us submitting an entry. To change the rules now with out first
including
> all those involved is a breach of contract. With such a team of volunteers
> it would be a very easy win for anyone who lacking in integrity would
spend
> the money to file a suit. The Pov team would have no funds to fight and
> would be force to agree to a settlement. That would be a very bad deal for
> all of us. I am just worried. I am not sure if this issue was considered
in
> the decision.

There is no legal issue, because everyone who registered agreed to this:

http://www.povcomp.com/rules/agreement/

Specifically, "5. By registering or entering the competition you accept and
agree that:" "b. Neither the competition organisers nor anyone associated
with the competition may be held responsible for any loss or damage of any
sort whatsoever, howsoever caused, that you may suffer as a result of
entering."

Lance.

thezone - thezone.firewave.com.au
thehandle - www.thehandle.com

"m1j" <mik### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> I do however believe more respect to those that did make the deadline should
> be shown.

How do you know if the organizer's haven't prepared some kind of
consolidation already?  It's just that practically nothing can be done at
this point, the competition continues.  Do you think it would be fair if
some authors or works was put on the pedestal at this point?

It's life.  It's not supposed to be predictable or set in stone.  Just try
to learn to adjust.

> with writing povray and I agree but now when we push and work to produce
> with in the given required timeline we get blasted for not producing well
> enough.

The organizer's have taken all the responsibility and blame.  The images
were good for a three-month competition, but the organizer's realized that
what they really were after were the kind of results that could be expected
after 6 months of amateur work.  I don't see why you would feel a need to
take any of this so personally, unless it's a general problem with personal
insecurity.  D'oh.

> I am sure everyone has learned something from this.

Seems to me that not everyone, not yet.

> But, this is not the normal way to handle these problems in normal
> competition.

Oh but doesn't that just fit?  The normal way to handle a box in a 3D
software would be to click on a button.  :)

> Like I said before; there could be legal issues that could change things.
> If anyone has access to legal advice I would encourage some counseling.

Now *that's* the adult way of coping with the world.  Just sue 'em.

--
jussi.kantola

"m1j" <mik### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> There is no suggesting in my post. I was just stating a warning. We could

Of course the was.  You suggested that, and I quote, '[if] anyoneone has
access to legal advice I would encourage some counseling'.

You'd better calm down a bit before your next post.

--
jussi.kantola

m1j <mik### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> If the deadline is moved officially I will put more time in to my image. I
> am glad to be able to do so. But, this is not the normal way to handle
> these problems in normal competition.

  That's where you are wrong. It's very usual for competitions (not only
computer graphics competitions, but also other similar ones) to extend
deadlines if the amount of entrants was too small for a reasonable
competition.

  I really don't understand why you are disappointed and why you are
suggesting this silly idea that the prices should be given now
regardless of the quality of the competition.

  Extending the deadline serves everyone, ending the competition now
serves no-one (except perhaps the winner).

  Extending the deadline serves the entrants and potential entrants:
Many people complained that they did not have the time to make an entry
even though they would have wanted. Some even complained that they started
making an entry but did not make it in time. Some entrants have expressed
that they did not have time to develop the image as much as they would
have wanted.
  And why should existing entrants complain? It's a fact that deadlines
make people work harder. That's the reason why there are deadlines (and
often even several ones) in school and work projects. Now, the entrants
have made a lot of work for their entry because of the deadline; now that
the deadline was extended they can work even more on their entries. The
total amount of work put into the entry can in many cases be even larger
than what it would have been if the deadline would have been set to January
in the first place. This means that (hopefully) many of the entries will
be better than they would have been, which is good for the entrant and
everyone.

  Extending the deadline serves the competition organizers: If the overall
quality and amount of entries increases, the goal which was set for the
competition will be reached more easily.

  Extending the deadline serves the sponsors: They get "more bang for
their buck", as one could say. The sponsors will be happier and might
be more willing to sponsor future competitions.

  Extending the deadline serves the public: If the overall quality of
the competition increases, the public will get more "wow!" experiences.

  Stopping the competition would not serve the entrants: Many were not
able to participate at all, and many of the ones who did participate did
so with hastily created entries which they themselves are not happy with.
The prices would go to the ones who were able to get something more or
less cool done fast, not necessarily the ones who are most talented.
  We are not measuring speed here; that's not the purpose of this
competition. We are measuring quality.

  Stopping the competition would not serve the organizers: The purpose
of the competition was to get a large amount of high-quality, well-worked
images for, among other things, to promote POV-Ray as a high-quality
program, not to see who gets something done fast.

  Stopping the competition would not serve the sponsors: If they get
disappointed, they might not be willing to sponsor any further competitions
in the future, which certainly does not serve the POV-Ray community or
anyone. Also if the reputation of POV-Ray, the pov-team and the POV-Ray
community gets a stain in the eyes of the "big guys", that can only be
negative.

  Stopping the competition would not serve the public: The public could
get disappointed and the reputation issues above would also have negative
consequences from the big public.

> Like I said before; there could be
> legal issues that could change things. If anyone has access to legal advice
> I would encourage some counseling.

  Ah, but I see now that you were just joking, so no harm done.

-- 
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Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:

>   Extending the deadline serves everyone, ending the competition now
> serves no-one (except perhaps the winner).

Good thing that there is no chance in hell that I will be the winner.

>   Extending the deadline serves the entrants and potential entrants:
> Many people complained that they did not have the time to make an entry
> even though they would have wanted. Some even complained that they started
> making an entry but did not make it in time. Some entrants have expressed
> that they did not have time to develop the image as much as they would
> have wanted.

I think people will be much less angry if the deadline is extended BEFORE
the initial deadline is reached. I have seen these complains on the forum
earlier, and perhaps people should've voiced their concerns well before the
competition ends.

"Gilles Tran" <gitran_nospam_@wanadoo.fr> wrote:

> This being a POV-Ray competition, asking people to show off their POV-Ray
> skills is somehow mandatory. Can this turn off people? Perhaps, but the best
> POV-Ray images should be intrinsically POV-Ray made

Agreed, and this shouldn't be limited to just models, but textures as well.
It is not easy to make really good procedural textures in Povray but in
many cases it is possible. So I think the judges should have a certain
level of weighing on pov-made texture as well.  Will all the judges be
familar with Povray so that they can evaluate the technical aspects of the
entries?

J

j <phazxero[at]hotmail[dot]com> wrote:
> I think people will be much less angry if the deadline is extended BEFORE
> the initial deadline is reached.

  I suppose the team was hoping that it was just a case of people working
hard until the last possible moment before submitting their work, and
that they would get a flood of entries close to the deadline. Unfortunately
that seemed to be a wrong assumption. The deadline came and no flood.

-- 
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news:web.417faecbb45fa19edb959710@news.povray.org...

> I think people will be much less angry if the deadline is extended BEFORE
> the initial deadline is reached.

That would have been better for everyone in retrospect, but it was not
possible to take such a decision before the deadline without knowing the
final number of entries. We had some inkling of the problem when some folks
reported that they were quitting the competition in these groups, but this
alone wasn't enough to postpone it. The fact that 75% the registered
contestants had dropped out was an unwelcome surprise to say the less.

> Agreed, and this shouldn't be limited to just models, but textures as
well.
> It is not easy to make really good procedural textures in Povray but in
> many cases it is possible. So I think the judges should have a certain
> level of weighing on pov-made texture as well.  Will all the judges be
> familar with Povray so that they can evaluate the technical aspects of the
> entries?

Most judges won't be familiar with POV-Ray. However, the judges will discuss
the pictures and those with POV-Ray experience will have the opportunity to
point out the POV-specific qualities of the images.

G.


-- 

**********************
http://www.oyonale.com
**********************
- Graphic experiments
- POV-Ray and Poser computer images
- Posters

"jute" <nomail@nomail> wrote in message
news:web.417f69eab45fa19e67c1c3ff0@news.povray.org...
> "m1j" <mik### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> > There is no suggesting in my post. I was just stating a warning. We
could
>
> Of course the was.  You suggested that, and I quote, '[if] anyoneone has
> access to legal advice I would encourage some counseling'.
>
> You'd better calm down a bit before your next post.
>
> --
> jussi.kantola
>
>
>

i think you might have misunderstood his intentions. so did i initially (it
sounded like veiled threats honestly), but by reading his response i trust
he means that he encourages the povcomp team to seek legal counseling before
finalizing the deadline extention. That seems like sound advice.

-r

"Ross" <rli### [at] everestkcnet> wrote:
> "jute" <nomail@nomail> wrote in message
> news:web.417f69eab45fa19e67c1c3ff0@news.povray.org...
> > "m1j" <mik### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> > > There is no suggesting in my post. I was just stating a warning. We
> could
> >
> > Of course the was.  You suggested that, and I quote, '[if] anyoneone has
> > access to legal advice I would encourage some counseling'.
> >
> > You'd better calm down a bit before your next post.
> >
> > --
> > jussi.kantola
> >
> >
> >
>
> i think you might have misunderstood his intentions. so did i initially (it
> sounded like veiled threats honestly), but by reading his response i trust
> he means that he encourages the povcomp team to seek legal counseling before
> finalizing the deadline extention. That seems like sound advice.
>
> -r

Thank you very much for accurately reading my post. I intended no threat
from me but just concern that some one could and might.

Well, I guess I really can't say whether this extension is a good thing or a
bad thing.  I had dropped out of this competition when I was almost
finished with a *not very refined* entry due to time constraints.  Since
the closure of the contest, I have been able to dedicate more of my effort
to other demanding (and exceptionally gluttonous) time-devouring subjects.
Now that it has reopened, I will have to finish my work and submit it.
This will hog a lot more of my already scarce commodity (time), but I think
it will be rather more rewarding than most of my mandated pursuits (aka
school :p).  I really don't care where I stand or will stand as far as
comparative quality, I just want to be able to satisfy my own imagination
(it's finicky, that's for sure!)
Let's oil those engines and get back in the race!
Don't worry about getting frustrated; If worst comes to worst, come and join
me in Antarctica, I'll have the Penguins put on some more hot chocolate.

Good luck one and all (not just to the entrants, I mean everybody)!