On 31-Oct-08 17:32, Jim Charter wrote:
> Thomas de Groot wrote:
> 
>> For some reason, the billboard effect is a tiny bit less convincing in 
>> this scene, perhaps because one knows about it now... Or because the 
>> poses themselves are not entirely in accordance with street life (with 
>> the exception of the woman with the cell phone).
> 
> The cell phone woman IS excellent.  

Interesting to see so much different opinions on one simple part. To me 
the cell phone woman looks like a cardboard, IMHO there is something 
wrong with the aspect ratio. Most notably in the upper part of the 
figure. I might be biased by knowledge, but when I first read the 
comment all that remained was that the foreground people were not 
cardboard. After deciding that also the phone woman looked like 
cardboard I reread and saw Rob mentioned the foreground *couple*.

Question to Rob: are all cardboards perpendicular to the line of sight? 
and if not did you stretch the images to correct for that angle?

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Jim Charter <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote:
> RobF wrote:
> > Jaime Vives Piqueres <jai### [at] ignoranciaorg> wrote:
> >
> >>:O
> >>
> >>...the most impressive is the street itself: at first glance I thought that
> >>the people where rendered over a real street photo! Very good lighting and
> >>texturing there, IMHO. ...oh, and the crowd is great too! ;)
> >>
> >>--
> >>Jaime
> >
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > The crowd scene was a bit of a diversion from the street scene I've been working
> > on for a few months. Here's the current WIP of the rest of the street. All the
> > people are billboards except for the foreground couple.  Comments welcome.
> >
> > More images from this project are here:
> > http://fitzel.ca/dart/metro/fall.html
> >
> > Rob.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> Excellent so far.  Love the level of ambition.  Did you model the Crown
> Vics?

Heavens no! I got most of the car models from here:

http://dmi.chez-alice.fr/models23.html

Rob.

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"Ben Chambers" <ben### [at] pacificwebguycom> wrote:
> How did you model the people?
>
> ...Chambers
>
> "RobF" <nomail@nomail> wrote in message
> news:web.490675f067d4b8052d55026c0@news.povray.org...
> > I've been experimenting with rendering crowds. This scene contains about
> > 500
> > people.
> >
> > Comments and crits welcome.
> >
> >
> > Rob.
> > --
> > fitzel.ca/dart
> >

The people were modeled with DAZ|Studio. Each person was rendered eight times
(each time the model was rotated about 45 degrees). The rendered images were
then image_mapped onto a plane and rotated to face the camera.

More details on how the billboards were generated are here:
http://fitzel.ca/dart/crowds/crowds.html

Rob.

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andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:

> Interesting to see so much different opinions on one simple part. To me
> the cell phone woman looks like a cardboard, IMHO there is something
> wrong with the aspect ratio. Most notably in the upper part of the
> figure. I might be biased by knowledge, but when I first read the
> comment all that remained was that the foreground people were not
> cardboard. After deciding that also the phone woman looked like
> cardboard I reread and saw Rob mentioned the foreground *couple*.
>
> Question to Rob: are all cardboards perpendicular to the line of sight?
> and if not did you stretch the images to correct for that angle?

Yes, the billboards are y-axis rotated to be perpendicular to the camera.
However, what you may have noticed is that the person was rendered with an
orthographic projection (which was easier to setup that a perspective
projection).

I experimented with a perspective projection which gave a more three dimensional
appearance, IMHO.

I've attached an image for comparison

More info about the billboards is here:
http://fitzel.ca/dart/crowds/crowds.html

Thanks for the feedback!

Rob.

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Attachments:
Download 'billboard.vs.model.jpg' (248 KB)

Preview of image 'billboard.vs.model.jpg'

"Halbert" <hal### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> I've been looking for ten minutes, but I still can't find Waldo. :-(
>
> --


Try finding him in this one... :-)

Rob.

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Attachments:
Download 'rush_hou_waldo.jpg' (271 KB)

Preview of image 'rush_hou_waldo.jpg'

RobF wrote:
> Try finding him in this one... :-)

I wonder if his favorite book is a "where's waldo" book?

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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On 04-Nov-08 4:36, RobF wrote:
> andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> 
>> Interesting to see so much different opinions on one simple part. To me
>> the cell phone woman looks like a cardboard, IMHO there is something
>> wrong with the aspect ratio. Most notably in the upper part of the
>> figure. I might be biased by knowledge, but when I first read the
>> comment all that remained was that the foreground people were not
>> cardboard. After deciding that also the phone woman looked like
>> cardboard I reread and saw Rob mentioned the foreground *couple*.
>>
>> Question to Rob: are all cardboards perpendicular to the line of sight?
>> and if not did you stretch the images to correct for that angle?
> 
> Yes, the billboards are y-axis rotated to be perpendicular to the camera.

Ok, but my question was: did you correct for a possible the difference 
in angle between the two renderings?

> However, what you may have noticed is that the person was rendered with an
> orthographic projection (which was easier to setup that a perspective
> projection).
> 
> I experimented with a perspective projection which gave a more three dimensional
> appearance, IMHO.
> 
> I've attached an image for comparison
> 
> More info about the billboards is here:
> http://fitzel.ca/dart/crowds/crowds.html
> 
> Thanks for the feedback!

The only one that does not look flat is the 3D model. I have trouble 
telling why, perhaps it is the lighting. It can't be the whole story 
however as I can not tell if she is standing in the shade (when the 
lighting might be correct) or not totally as the 3D model seems to show 
(though that could be because she is not exactly in the same spot).

Then there is also the problem with how the feet touch the street. I 
noticed that already with e.g. the man in jeans on the left. It might be 
that they are rendered standing much closer to the camera than the 
billboard does in the final scene.

I am a bit confused.

BTW did I tell you I like the scene regardless of these minor things?

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"RobF" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> I've been experimenting with rendering crowds. This scene contains about 500
> people.
>
> Comments and crits welcome.

Your 'POV people' image immediately got my attention! Looks like a photo, that
you staged on a real street. Very nice work.

Your web-page description of the billboard technique is much appreciated.  I
find it intriguing that the DAZ figures integrate so well into your image, even
though the lighting on the figures (in DAZ) is mainly side light--that is, no
real(?) attempt at 'matching' the figure lighting to the POV scene lighting.
Yet it all blends together wonderfully. I wouldn't have expected such success.

I haven't yet looked at your macro, but I assume that the billboards are rotated
*only * around the y-axis, to match the camera. Here's a suggestion--sure to
occupy a few of your off-hours(!): For your POV-people image, why not make a
'few' more billboards (ugh!) of each character, not rotated around y each time,
but rather by rotating the (perspective) camera itself upwards--say in 10-deg.
intervals up to maybe 60-deg--to get some down-angle views. Then rotate the
final billboard(s) in both y and x, to face the camera square-on, so the
perspective looks right. (I've done this trick before using
photos-as-billboards, and it looks quite convincing; took me awhile to figure
out the rotational code, though. And it might be rather tricky to get the feet
of the figures to always appear 'grounded.')

Ken W.

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"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] earthlinknet> wrote:

> Here's a suggestion--sure to
> occupy a few of your off-hours(!): For your POV-people image, why not make a
> 'few' more billboards (ugh!) of each character, not rotated around y each time,
> but rather by rotating the (perspective) camera itself upwards--say in 10-deg.
> intervals up to maybe 60-deg--to get some down-angle views...

Sorry if that sounded confusing; I meant to say, "In DAZ," when generating your
images for the billboards. Rather than *just* rotating the DAZ figure on the
y-axis in 45-deg. steps, rotate the (perspective) camera itself upwards--say in
10-deg. intervals up to maybe 60-deg--to get some down-angle views...

> Then rotate the
> final billboard(s) in both y and x, to face the camera square-on, so the
> perspective looks right.

That is, in POV-Ray, for your scene.

Ken W.

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Probably a scene during the US election, ha ha ha!

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